Requiring the Licensing of Last-Mile Facilities

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Please quiet down. At this time you will be asked to leave the room. Moving forward, no one is to approach the dais. The chair is ready to begin.

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Good morning. Welcome to today's Committee on Consumer and Worker Protection hearing on Int 0518-2026, sponsored by CM Cabán, requiring the last mile facilities. My name is Harvey Epstein, the chair of the committee. I am joined by my colleagues CM Aldebol and CM Cabán. Each weekday approximately 7,800 vehicles travel throughout the five boroughs to transport more than 2.4 million packages to consumers. These vehicles generally pick up packages from the last mile facilities, warehouses and transfer stations where parcels are sorted and loaded on vehicles for delivery and delivered to consumers. In January 2024, there were approximately 50 last mile facilities greater than 50,000 square feet in New York City. The high volume of last mile delivery combined with the demand for speed creates conditions for street safety and worker health and safety issues. A published report from the office of the New York State Comptroller in November of 2025 found that the arrival of last mile facilities in an area is correlated with increased traffic incidents, increased injuries and crashes. The Comptroller's office also found that workers in last mile facilities were injured more frequently and more seriously than those in courier industries generally.

The street safety and worker health and safety issues in last mile facilities are impacted by a high rate of turnover among last mile workers and subcontracting employment models used by some last mile facilities, such as Amazon delivery service partner programs. A high turnover industry means workers have less training and on the job experience. The Comptroller's office found that the Amazon delivery service partners operating in the city have higher rates of both injuries and injuries that result in time away from work or modified work duties than other last mile facilities in general. Int 0518-2026 would require operators of last mile facilities to obtain a business license from the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. License holders would be required to directly employ core delivery and warehouse workers and meet training and safety requirements. I look forward to feedback on this legislation from the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection, last mile operators, delivery service companies, as well as the public at large. I would like to give over to CM Cabán for an introduction.

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Thank you, Chair. Good morning. Our lives, our workplaces, and our streets have been fundamentally transformed by e-commerce and the ability to order virtually anything and have it on our doorsteps within hours. And in many ways, it has made our life easier. I can order food for my dog or dish soap or a new pair of shoes without needing to leave my apartment. And it is a godsend for folks who, for a variety of reasons, cannot make the journey to a store. All of us have had how we buy things transformed by this change. And this year alone, we expect over a billion packages to be delivered within New York City. And yet our regulations have not kept up with the shift in how goods get to us.

Last year, as was mentioned, the Comptroller published a report with troubling findings. Near last mile facilities, truck related injuries rose 137%. And when these accidents happen, the company who controls the van, the worker, and the route suddenly tells us that this worker is not their employee and that it is the subcontractors who are to blame. And these facilities, with all of the fumes that accompany them, are mostly in Black and Brown neighborhoods where residents have already faced catastrophic health outcomes because of industrial pollution. Injury rates for workers at last mile facilities are three times the national average for private employers. Beyond this report, we have heard directly from workers who have told us about harrowing conditions that they have been forced to endure in order to meet ever higher quotas and constantly shortening delivery windows. We have heard of drivers put behind the wheels of vans without any training. We have heard of drivers being required to drive vans literally held together with tape, missing side mirrors, with doors that fall off. Drivers have had to urinate in bottles, skip meals and breaks in order to meet impossible quotas. And in order to meet the quotas, they have to violate traffic laws.

So as the lead sponsor of the Bill, I also get communications from folks impacted by the Bill. And I got an email yesterday from a group of drivers who shared the following. They said, "Our DSP belongs to a coalition called New York Delivers that opposes this Bill. Opposing it is their right. The problem is how they are doing it. The protest tomorrow is not voluntary. It is bought with money and forced with threats. Buses full of drivers will be arriving from the Bronx stations. Drivers are being offered a full day's route pay as if they were working 10 hours just for showing up. The coalition will hand out blue t-shirts that say 'delivery drivers say no to Int 0518-2026,' signs, and will have its own film crew. Drivers were forced to attend. In mandatory meetings, management asked in front of everyone who was not going to go. And they made us raise our hands in front of our co-workers. Everyone knows the owner and what he is like. So everyone knows that if you raise your hand or refuse, they will start cutting your work days, put you on standby, or tell you Amazon cut your route. And that continues until you give up and quit." That is an email that I received yesterday from a group of drivers.

I am concerned that drivers face retaliation unless they participate in opposition to this Bill. And I am here with a simple proposition. New Yorkers need good jobs where they are treated with respect. New Yorkers deserve safe streets. And my Bill would make New Yorkers, including workers, safer. It would require licensing for last mile facilities, direct employment of drivers, protection against unfair termination and retaliation, and real worker training. We have an outpouring of support from workers, unions, environmental groups, and traffic safety organizations. I look forward to hearing from those most directly impacted by this industry during today's hearing as we move toward passing this essential legislation. Thank you, Chair.

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Thank you, CM Cabán. Now I would like to welcome the administration for being here and we will be hearing directly from them. Carlos Ortiz, Michael Tiger, and Emily Hoffman. Could the council swear them in.

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Good morning, Chair Epstein and members of the Committee on Consumer and Worker Protection. My name is Carlos Ortiz, and I am the chief of staff and deputy commissioner of external affairs at the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. I am joined by our general counsel, Michael Tiger, and director of litigation in our office of labor policy and standards, Emily Hoffman. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the committee today on Int 0518-2026. The New York City Department of Consumer and Worker Protection is the nation's leading municipal enforcement agency charged with delivering economic justice. DCWP leverages its authority to bring New Yorkers real economic relief and protect them from predatory, deceptive, and unfair practices that violate their rights as consumers and workers. This includes pioneering cutting edge protections such as the City's consumer protection law, Paid Time Off law, Fair Work Week law, and delivery worker laws, including the minimum pay rate for delivery workers. Through licensing more than 45,000 businesses in over 45 industries, DCWP ensures fair competition and a level playing field for responsible small businesses that are integral to New York City's vibrant communities. DCWP also provides essential services such as free tax preparation and financial counseling to ensure New Yorkers keep more of what they earn and can plan for their futures. DCWP is committed to making sure New York City is a fairer, more affordable place to live.

Under Mayor Mamdani and Commissioner Lavine, DCWP has built upon our historic track record of success to go even further and take on the challenge of delivering economic justice to New Yorkers. From expanding the minimum pay rate to grocery delivery workers to litigating against predatory corporate entities to adopting new protections against junk fees and other consumer traps, our fight on behalf of New Yorkers' economic lives has been relentless. Last year, we delivered a record-breaking $44.4 million in restitution to more than 24,000 workers through our enforcement of cornerstone New York City workplace laws such as the Fair Work Week Law, Paid Time Off, delivery worker laws, and more. So far in 2026, we have already secured more than $9.3 million for New Yorkers. That represents nearly $100,000 back to New Yorkers per day since the start of the administration. This is real economic relief for New Yorkers at a time when affordability is a central issue in all of our lives. We take our crucial role of delivering economic justice with great pride and responsibility. To corporations or companies that shirk their legal obligations to exploit New Yorkers, our message is clear: you will be held accountable.

As the Mamdani administration moves forward with an ambitious vision for economic justice, we will continue to implement and enforce vital protections for New Yorkers. Turning to today's legislation, Int 0518-2026 requires operators of certain warehouses and storage facilities from which goods are delivered to consumers in the City to obtain a business license from DCWP. This Bill also provides for worker remedies when companies do not comply, through administrative enforcement and a private right of action. DCWP supports Int 0518-2026. In the last decade, last mile facility jobs have grown significantly in New York City and companies in the space are benefiting from record profits. However, protections for workers at last mile facilities have lagged behind other cutting edge worker protections establishing fairness and stability. Last mile facilities frequently subcontract much of their core delivery work instead of hiring their own employees to do the work. This model externalizes costs as well as liabilities, which can lead to labor violations and the exploitation of workers in unsafe working environments. In other industries, we have seen how the subcontracting model shields the parent company from liability. In those spaces, DCWP has supported efforts to eliminate subcontracting, such as through the Safe Hotels Act.

Even though last mile facilities subcontract work, they still maintain significant control of workers' schedules, workflow, and lives, oftentimes pressuring workers to reach unreasonable quotas without taking responsibility for any subsequent issues that arise. The parent companies are therefore the root problem and must be held accountable for any exploitation of workers or violations of the law.

While we have concerns with certain provisions of the Bill, ultimately we believe this Bill will empower the agency to address these core economic justice issues on behalf of thousands of workers. We look forward to working with the Council for passage of this legislation. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the committee on today's legislation. As always, we are eager to partner with the Council on legislation to improve protections for workers and prioritize economic justice in our City. I welcome any questions you may have for further discussion.

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Thank you. I want to recognize my colleagues CM Ossé and CM Avilés who have joined us today. I want to thank the administration for their testimony and the work they have done. Really, just in a few months, $9.3 million — just over three months into the year. So congratulations on that achievement. Thank you, Chair. I want to start by focusing on the Comptroller's report from the end of last year. I want to get a sense of whether you read it and what your assessment was of the fact-finding the Comptroller did around last mile facilities.

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Thank you for the question, Chair. Yes, we are familiar with the report and have reviewed it. I would start by saying perhaps that the agency does not necessarily have our own in-house expertise on certain traffic safety or workplace safety issues. But we were certainly concerned about the issues that were raised in the Comptroller's report. Certainly, I think from a holistic perspective of the administration, worker safety is important to consider in these situations.

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And they talked a lot about increased injuries, fatalities and increased traffic accidents. What is your assessment of that determination made by the Comptroller?

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Well, unfortunately, we at the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection do not have the data that aligns with that information, but we are happy to work with our partners in the police department and transportation to get you that information.

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Do you think that data is reliable based on the report that you have reviewed?

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I think from an administration perspective, we would like to rely on the data that DOT and NYPD might have, but I am sure there will be consistencies that we can find. Certainly it raises concerns that we should be looking into those safety issues as well as a city.

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Has this issue been flagged to you before around safety around DSP workers and these last mile facilities in general? With respect to industries and the subcontracting model, we are familiar with how that model can lend itself to workplace violations, lack of responsibility and appropriate liability for parent companies. Just last year we worked particularly under the Safe Hotels Act to address some similar issues that were arising because of the subcontracting model. So I think ultimately there are analogous issues arising there because of subcontracting, which is why I think this is a good Bill. Can you remind me and my colleagues of some of those issues that were brought up during the Safe Hotels Act and how they aligned with this legislation?

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Yes, thank you, Chair. I think at the time we had similar issues coming up with working conditions that were lagging behind what laws and rules were in place to protect workers, and that came from workers not knowing exactly who their employer was because the subcontracting model kind of shielded some of that responsibility and liability. And so I think we worked in that instance to also have a similar framework as this Bill to remove subcontracting in certain instances.

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And so you feel like the passage of the Safe Hotels Act has fixed some of the problems you were concerned about?

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I think the Safe Hotels Act is a strong piece of legislation. I see this as building off of that. Yes, I do.

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Do you think some of the problems we are experiencing today could be fixed through this legislative change?

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Yes, I think again the DCWP administration supports this legislation. We have seen and heard reports directly from workers and other stakeholders in the space. So the issues that are arising, we see this as a good step forward.

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Yeah. And I think just to add to that, I think generally as a matter of policy, as the worker protection agency in the City, we see it is generally important across industries to make sure the well-being, the pay, and the dignity of workers is protected. It is important that as much as possible the entity that is controlling their workplace environment is directly employing them. We find that preventing the severing of that connection is what is very important for workplace safety, workplace pay, workplace conditions and the general dignity of workers. So I think as a general cross-industry matter, this is something that is of great interest to the agency.

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Can I turn to workforce turnover and how that connects to safety? In the report by the Comptroller, it talked about how high worker turnover resulted in more injuries and more accidents. Do you have any information or data that supports that statement?

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I do not believe we have particular data on turnover in this industry. However, speaking about other industries, I think we have seen in fast food, security guards and delivery workers how turnover can be detrimental to making sure that the workforce itself is educated on their protections, educated on their job duties, and that they are gaining experience. I think the more turnover that happens, the less experience workers have, and that is a detrimental effect. And in this industry specifically, based on that Comptroller's report, there was discussion of high worker turnover. Based on that report and that information, is there anything that you have that contradicts that report?

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No. With respect to that, we do not have information that contradicts that report at this time. Great. I know we have colleagues here. I want to give some time. So I will turn to CM Cabán and then I want to recognize that CM Ariola is on Zoom with us.

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Great. Thank you. Thank you for being here today. Can you all talk in general terms about how the department sees the purpose of licensing an industry?

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Thank you for the question, Council Member. I do not necessarily... we certainly do not believe always that licensing is a panacea to every issue. Licensing, I think, has to be very intentional as a tool that we can utilize to address a particular activity and to give us the right resources that we need to address an issue that is arising. So I think we are very thoughtful about how we approach licensing. That said, I see this issue and this industry as a place where licensing is a key tool that we can utilize to ensure that other protections outlined in the Bill are enhanced. Let me throw to my colleague if he has anything to add.

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No, I think that is a very apt description of how we think about licensing in general, Council Member. As Carlos said, it does not necessarily work in every situation.

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But where there is an issue that the Council has identified that is affecting a large swath of the stakeholders that this agency is intended to protect, and there are specific regulations that can be put in place to advance important interests to protect workers or consumers, then using the licensing model as a way to make sure that there is compliance with regulations and that there is a stick behind the regulations — those are important considerations. But I want to underscore that we license 45,000 businesses and individuals in a whole host of different types of industries. So we have experience making this a process that works for businesses as well as the stakeholders we are intending to protect.

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Great. Thank you. By DCWP's read of the Bill, by your read of the Bill and based on your experience, are the application requirements for the license unusually or particularly onerous for companies? Because you just said you do this for 45,000 different entities, so comparing those licensing requirements with what is laid out in the Bill and your understanding of the Bill — what is your take?

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Thank you for the question, Council Member. We have not identified anything that is particularly onerous in the application process outlined in the Bill.

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That said, to my colleague's point, we do have a lot of expertise as it relates to standing up licensing regimes. We certainly could provide suggestions to make sure that we are creating an efficient and effective licensing process through streamlining of anything we can identify. We do take the feedback from industry seriously as bills advance towards adoption, to figure out a way that works for the agency operationally while not undermining the goals of the licensing scheme. So we do take that seriously and I think we can all collaborate

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with the Council and then hear from stakeholders about the best way to stand up that license. So, just to reiterate what you guys

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Bring to the table is being able to say, "Hey, our goal is to maintain and encourage business in the city while also creating a regulatory scheme that protects people and finding that balance. Is that a fair description of what you guys just said?"

That is correct. That is exactly how we want to approach our work, with nuance and making sure that we take all stakeholder feedback to be effective. So the goal is obviously not to have the licensing process itself be prohibitive. You want people to reach that threshold. So the city currently licenses food delivery service and construction labor providers and has enforcement authority over contracted delivery worker protections. Right.

That is correct.

Okay. We found about 50 active licenses for construction labor providers and 34 active licenses for third-party delivery services. Does that also sound roughly accurate?

That sounds roughly accurate. Yes.

Okay. And about half a dozen for each type was based outside of the city. Also sound accurate?

I believe... I am not as familiar with the construction labor provider. I am sorry, I did not come prepared for this.

That is okay. No worries.

I think in terms of delivery apps, some are based in the city and some might perhaps be outside the city.

Okay. And can you briefly describe the typical enforcement scenario that arises under the contracted delivery worker protections? What is the common way that the provisions of those protections are enforced?

Thank you for the question, Council Member. Let me throw it over to my colleague Emily Hoffman to address that.

Awesome. Thank you. So most of our enforcement is complaint-based, but we do also have the authority to bring our own investigations without receiving complaints. But typically how it works is we get a complaint from a worker. Our investigative staff evaluates the complaint to identify a violation of the law. If there appears to be a violation, we have a team of attorneys, investigators and data scientists who work together to talk to workers, obtain records from the company and pursue relief and civil penalties if we are finding violations.

Cool. And then just for the record, I want to name that there is a provision in the Bill to protect the jobs of current workers in the event that delivery operators are required to directly employ delivery drivers. So that clause states that the current drivers' jobs must be protected. Thank you, Chair.

Yeah. Thank you, CM Cabán. I will turn it over to CM Aldebol.

Hi. Oh, wait. Sorry. I just want to recognize our colleagues. CM Banks and CM De La Rosa have joined us as well. Thank you.

So I have a question about the last mile companies that are subcontracted by these parent companies. Do you know how many companies are providing last mile delivery services in New York City?

Thank you for the question, Council Member. I think based on a DCP report from 2023, our understanding is there are at least 50 or so last mile storage facilities in the city, representing close to 45,000 workers as well. So the subcontracted companies would be required to get licensed by DCWP.

The framework of the Bill would require the last mile storage facilities, the parent companies so to speak, to be licensed by DCWP and to hire core delivery workers directly, so eliminating subcontractors altogether.

In those particular services, subcontracting would be prohibited.

Okay. And do you have any concerns with the licensing? Are there better guardrails for the parent companies to ensure the safety of the workers under the licensing?

I think for the licensing, certainly as we were discussing with CM Cabán, we definitely have expertise and experience that we can bring to making sure that we have an efficient regime that is effective both for workers and for the companies that need to be licensed. I think certainly within the Bill we would need more time to implement a regime of this scale and magnitude, at least 270 to 360 days. But again I think that is a discussion we are looking forward to having with the Council as the Bill moves through passage.

And do you see any protections for some of these small businesses who have invested in, you know, whatever the parent company is leasing trucks, taking out loans, all of that stuff? Are there any protections that you can see for those small businesses?

I think there are existing legal protections that those small businesses have that I think would be applicable in this space. I think the Bill also contemplates mechanisms to ensure that those small businesses are protected too. Ultimately, I think there is a conversation that we need to have as well when we are discussing this Bill with the law department, their review, to make sure that we do not have any unintended consequences that would be harmful at all.

Thank you. Now I will turn to CM Avilés.

Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you to the agency for being here and for your work. I would like to know, as you know, I represent Red Hook and Sunset Park, a community that has many, many last mile facilities, and we have been working for years now to address environmental impacts, labor impacts and street and safety impacts. It has been very, very difficult. I would like to know if you believe that the licensing requirements would be harmful for small businesses.

We have two more.

And I am not talking about those providers that are connected to Amazon. I am talking about the small business ecosystem.

Small businesses that use third-party delivery services. Thank you. I think, you know, I see the licensing and the other protections in this Bill as raising the floor really in terms of the industries that are out there and also eliminating in some ways any competitive disadvantages that are unfair to small businesses. In many ways, the subcontracting model is a cost-saving measure for major last mile storage facilities, and there are small businesses that are engaging in similar work that are not able to engage in a subcontracting model or achieve those same cost-saving measures. So I do not necessarily see the Bill itself as prohibitive of small business success in the city. Certainly we will be mindful as implementers of that concern.

Certainly what we have seen in the industrial manufacturing ecosystem is that these giant unregulated facilities are truly disturbing that ecosystem and building these unsustainable structures on the waterfront without using any kind of water freight, which has been a major contention of mine. In terms of safety, can you tell us if you are aware of an increase in traffic crashes, injury-causing crashes, truck-related crashes, traffic impacts around last mile facilities?

Thank you for the question, Council Member. Yes, we are aware of recent reports especially that have highlighted this issue as arising because of the last mile facility industry. In particular, I believe the Chair was referencing a report that itemized these issues. I think from our perspective we would need to liaise with our colleagues at the Department of Transportation and the police department, and we would be happy to provide that data from the administration as well.

I think the other thing in terms of safety that we are deeply concerned about is training, not only of the pedestrians that are on the street. In Red Hook we have last mile facilities across the street from schools and recreational facilities. Also the safety of the drivers. Can you talk to us about how raising the floor around training and safety provisions are regarded in the legislation?

Well, one piece I can start on and see if my colleagues want to add anything as well. I certainly think there was an interesting conversation we were having earlier as it relates to turnover and how, if workers are moving out of the industry quickly and new workers are coming in, you are not really having time for them to build up their own expertise and experience, including for safety issues, including for awareness of their rights as workers. So I think that is an important component as well to consider when we talk about turnover. I know the Bill also contemplates training certifications that would have to be put in place. I think these types of things are always helpful. If we are trying to achieve greater safety measures in the city, we are not necessarily ourselves an agency that has great expertise in workplace safety or traffic safety, but that is why we work closely with other agencies like DOT for street safety issues.

Thank you.

Thank you. I will turn it over to CM Banks.

Thank you, Chair. Good to see you again, Commissioner. Prior to this Bill being introduced, did DCWP collect and track complaints related to the last mile delivery facilities by location across the city? And how does the department use that data to identify geographical patterns or enforcement priorities?

Thank you for the question, Council Member. I think in general our complaint infrastructure is set up to address existing laws and rules that we enforce. So we have not tracked that data that you have mentioned in your question. That said, we have already been in discussions with our colleagues at DCP that have issued reports around this industry. They have identified at least 50 last mile storage facilities in the city representing close to 45,000 workers. I think for us, we will have to continue to engage with our colleagues on this issue if we are going to be standing up a licensing structure for this industry. Let me leave it at that and see if there are any more questions.

Has there been any type of enforcement action taken by the...

Thank you. On the worker side, yes, we have initiated seven investigations at last mile storage facilities. I think the particular protection that we have in place for this industry as it relates to our protected time off law is the ability for workers to take time off if they are sick, if a loved one is sick, if they need to attend a public benefits hearing, if there is a state of emergency in place. So that is our current legal authority as it relates to the space.

And those seven have been based around the last mile facilities?

They have to deal with the industry of last mile storage, not necessarily anything that is contemplated currently in...

Okay. Does the city currently collect or track any information regarding wages, benefits or other employment conditions offered to the workers by the delivery service providers? And how is that information used?

No, we currently do not track that information as it relates to this industry.

Well, how does the current employment structure, where drivers are hired through the DSP's partners operating within a larger delivery platform, affect DCWP's ability to oversee working conditions and enforce protections?

I am sorry, could you repeat the question, please?

How does the current employment structure, where drivers are hired through the DSP's partners operating within a larger delivery platform, affect DCWP's ability to oversee working conditions and enforce protections?

Got it. Thank you for the question, Council Member. Apologies.

No, it is all right.

I think ultimately the subcontracting model in many ways externalizes costs and liabilities for the parent companies. It makes it difficult for the workers to understand who their actual employer is at times, and you have the parent company itself dictating the schedules, the quotas, the workflow, the lives of these workers while evading responsibility through a subcontracting model. In particular, that can have an effect when a worker is trying to advocate for their own rights under the protected time off law, as to who exactly they have to go to.

So I think these are some of the instances where we see subcontracting causing an issue for workers in New York City and why we think this Bill is the appropriate antidote for that.

Okay. And many of the DSP's partners, the delivery service partners operating in this space, are most of the time small micro-business owners. If this Bill is passed, will DCWP think about the potential impact the legislation could have on their ability to continue operating their business?

I think we want to be incredibly mindful as a city of any unintended consequences. I think the Bill is already contemplating how we address concerns that small businesses might be raising. I would want to reiterate that in many ways large last mile storage warehouses use subcontracting as a cost-saving measure, right? That gives them an unfair competitive advantage against other small businesses doing similar work. And we have heard ourselves from subcontractors about the difficult relationships they have with their parent companies, difficult financing deals, the skyrocketing cost of rental of equipment that makes it hard for these subcontractors as well to operate. So I think these are all nuances that we can incorporate into this legislation.

And if I may, just two more questions, and thank you, Chair. Are there any safeguards or mitigation strategies that you are considering that would be important to prevent these small business owners from being forced out of the market if this Bill passes?

I think the Bill contemplates certain safeguards in place. I think there is at least a one-year grace period that is in place. I think that is a conversation we need to have through redlining and with the law department. So I think we want to be mindful of small business concerns. I think it is important too to hear directly from subcontractors as well, not only existing subcontractors but former subcontractors that could describe their experience working with these parent companies and whether there really are benefits to that relationship.

And the other impact is on the bottom line workers. I know my district with this particular Bill will be impacted tremendously, with a large number of folks who possibly could face unemployment. Has there been any consideration about any type of employment guarantee if this Bill goes into effect, because of the impact it may have and the unintended consequences it possibly could have?

Thank you. I think that is a really important consideration that you are bringing up, Council Member. I know the Bill has provisions as it relates to rehiring of former subcontracted workers, which we will certainly be approaching during the bill negotiations. I would also note that it has another important provision related to notice of termination, which I think is important to make sure that we are trying as much as possible to keep down turnover rates in the industry and to make sure that workers are not constantly moving in and out of jobs, which creates instability in their...

There is no way to compel these parent companies to hire these individuals if this Bill passes?

The current Bill does require an employee retention provision to address that issue.

So that would be the parent company.

CM Banks, we do have a second round.

I am going to wrap it up. That would be the parent company. Thank you. I will come back on the second round.

Thank you.

CM Ossé. And we have joining us CM Brewer as well.

Good morning, Deputy Commissioner and folks from DCWP. I think it is well acknowledged that Amazon has a long history of aggressive union busting, of intense surveillance within workplaces and creating high-pressure working conditions within their workplaces that have caused injury and harm to their workers. It is also well acknowledged that Amazon has spent a lot of money trying to push back against this Bill. From the city's point of view, why is Amazon, a multi-billion dollar company with a history of anti-worker policies within their own workplaces, aggressively pushing against this Bill?

I think, Council Member, this Bill covers many more companies than Amazon. At the very least, in the DCP report that we have analyzed, FedEx, DHL and UPS are also potential licensees, and really as we negotiate through the legislation, we can think about the definition of the universe of licensees. I cannot speak to any intentions of any particular company as to why they want to oppose legislation that is going to protect workers at the end of the day. It is going to protect New Yorkers in our streets. But I can certainly say from our perspective that this is an important Bill that we support and we look forward to implementing it should it pass.

Sure. I just want to put on the record that in my past four years of being here on the City Council, anytime I see a multi-billion dollar company spending money against a piece of legislation that would basically improve the lives of New Yorkers, I am a bit troubled, right? I do not believe that they have the best interests at heart for workers. Them coming to the table now and saying that they are doing this for the best interests of people in this room seems a bit ironic based on their history of harming New Yorkers and harming workers across the country. So I hope that we all acknowledge in this room that when a multi-billion dollar company like Amazon is pushing back against a piece of legislation like this one, it is probably a good one.

Thank you, Council Member. And I would just add...

Hey, folks, hey, folks.

And also Amazon...

Honestly...

Hey, if people continue to do that you will be kicked out. So if you want to wave your hand in support or not, just please respect the audience. Wave whatever you want to do, but if you are speaking we are going to have to remove you from the chamber. Go ahead, CM Ossé.

Thank you. And Council Member, I just wanted to say, to piggyback off of your sentiment there, that DCWP certainly believes that it is a privilege to employ New Yorkers as workers. It is a privilege to engage them as consumers and as small businesses. There are certain obligations that companies have to meet when they are doing that in New York City. We certainly believe that we cannot allow protections for New Yorkers to be held hostage to corporate threats.

Thank you very much.

CM Ossé, thank you. I want to turn it over to CM Brewer.

Thank you very much. I have been listening on my cell phone so I do not miss a beat, as CM Cabán said. So my question is, I got calls from the newspaper industry. Needless to say, I think I am the last person in the United States who reads a newspaper, but I do. My question is, the delivery people would obviously be included in this law, I assume. So my question is, for those newspapers who have all been calling me saying that of course it would be the end of the world if their delivery people are included, which I know is not true, how would that work? These are small companies generally, not Amazon, that is a whole other world, and I guess they are part of the 50 or so that you mentioned. So how would that work? In other words, you have got delivery people at 5:30 in the morning getting the newspapers out, and they would in fact as a company now be part of that company. I do not know if there are many newspaper companies. I guess there are examples of the smaller, non-Amazon-related. Who would be an example of how that would work? Could you be specific about it? Because needless to say, I think all the newspapers called me.

I think...

Like I said, I am the last one in the...

(00:48:04)

I think this is a point of collaboration between the administration and the Council in terms of the definition that we are trying to capture, the activity that we are trying to address. Certainly some of the other companies that I have mentioned that are covered in that DCP report — my understanding is it did not include newspaper companies.

Well, they have the delivery company. It would include, I assume, the delivery company. The newspapers contract with the delivery company to deliver. Would that not be considered a last mile company? I think it really turns on whether or not, how expansive our definition needs to be.

Ultimately, I think there are certain companies that are engaging in a subcontracting model. They are engaging in practices that harm workers that we are really trying to address. I think that is our goal-oriented outcome — how do we stop that?

Yeah. I just want to underscore, as the chair mentioned, there was a controller's report and there has been a lot of attention shown on these last mile facilities generally. But the value of a hearing like this and the collaborative process and public engagement is to hear about different cases that maybe the proposed bill did not consider, and that the administration and the Council can work together to change or tighten definitions. So it is important to raise these concerns and definitely take them into consideration as we move forward. People should be clear about that and then participate in any kind of rulemaking and discussion ongoing.

That is correct, Council Member. We want to engage in a robust implementation process should this bill pass, to make sure that these voices are heard and incorporated.

Okay. All right. Thank you. CM Brewer, are you finished?

Yes, I am sorry. Thank you.

Thank you very much. So we are going to go to a second round if members have questions. Can you give me an understanding of why the department supports licensing and what is the role of licensing industries for DCWP?

I think as a general matter of principle, we want to be very careful about licensing. It does enshrine in law a particular process that is outlined for businesses and for the agency. We certainly do not believe that licensing is applicable to every situation. In fact, in many cases, we have worked over the years to eliminate outdated license categories that we feel are no longer beneficial for the protection of New Yorkers. We want to make sure that a particular license is connected to an activity, that it gives us special tools to address that activity, so that we can be effective as regulators in this space. That is the general viewpoint we take toward licensing.

And in this scenario, it seems like, as you have discussed, you think licensing would be appropriate on these facts. Can you explain why?

I think it is appropriate. It can help us identify who the appropriate actors are. It can help us hold them accountable for certain egregious activity that we can identify. I think it is best to think of it in terms of where you have discrete issues that have been identified by the Council or the administration that affect people in our core mandate — consumers and workers — and that there are issues then enshrined in the licensing scheme through an enforcement perspective, giving us the tools to be able to take action and where necessary use the stick of a license. That is all important while still creating a license application regime that is not onerous and actually works for the interests of those who are going to be licensed, to make sure that the good actors are getting their license on a timely basis. These are all the considerations we think about when we look at one of these laws the Council introduces.

I would add too, Council Member, I think why this bill is good is because it does focus on issues that we think we are good at in terms of protecting consumers and workers. There are times when a proposed licensing regime can be outside the scope of the agency, touching upon issues that we do not have expertise in. I think that is a moment we would share that feedback with the Council to make sure that we have the right expertise to implement a license.

So under these facts, it seems like you think licensing would be helpful to workers and consumers. That is what you are representing today.

That is correct, Chair.

Great. Do you have any concerns around enforcement? I know you mentioned timeline. Are there other concerns you might have?

I think particularly if implementation is important to us, we want to be mindful of our own calendar of things we are putting together. We want to be mindful of having time to have the conversations we need to stand up a good regime for folks. So I think the timeline is the thing that stands out most in my mind right now.

And have you contemplated the staffing needed to do enforcement around this?

I believe we shared a fiscal impact statement with the Council that contemplated approximately 19 additional lines at $2 million in the initial year and then the out years.

And you think with those lines you would be able to do the enforcement?

As a preliminary estimate, yes, we believe that is correct.

Great. I will turn it over to CM Cabán for a second round.

I actually think I am okay. I guess one follow-up question to what you said is that typically speaking, when you do enforcement, you have to fund these lines to have the capacity to do the legal work that is getting done. Can you talk a little bit about the return on investment?

I think, as I mentioned in my testimony, we have had historic success, particularly last year but even moving into this year, delivering $44 million back to workers just last year. That is done by a small but mighty team of 40 individuals in our office of labor policy and standards. I have always said that I believe this agency is pound-for-pound the best agency in the City because of that return on investment that you are alluding to, Council Member, and I appreciate you raising that. We are very excited to keep doing that work both on the worker side and the consumer side.

I will add to that — to steal a line from our commissioner — when you invest in DCWP, you are investing in consumers and workers of the City. We think that there is that return on investment for everybody.

Right. Thank you so much. Thanks, Chair.

Thank you, CM Banks.

Thank you, Chair. Based on the department's data or estimates, how many DSP providers are currently operating in New York City and approximately how many of those workers do they employ?

Working off of the DCP report from 2023, I think we have identified at least 50 last mile storage facilities.

Right. And those cover about 45,000 workers.

45,000. I think part of the conversation we can have, alluding to the questions that have been raised earlier, is how broad or how tight we want to keep the definition of who is covered by the license.

There have been estimates suggesting that the legislation would lead to significant job displacement among drivers and potentially other workers. How has DCWP assessed those estimates?

I think at this time we are still very early on in this legislative process, this hearing being one of the first public forums to receive feedback from stakeholders and data from stakeholders. I know this bill from the Council includes employee retention provisions to ensure — I assume the intent is to avoid displacement as much as possible. We are happy to work on that with you all to make sure we have a good bill.

I just want to get these questions on the record. There are about six Council districts that would be directly impacted by this bill. I want to ask: how is DCWP evaluating whether certain districts or communities that will be disproportionately impacted by these changes, particularly neighborhoods with a high concentration of unemployment, will be affected? Has there been any look into the impact that it may cause?

Based on a study that we read, it stated that districts 28, 20, 31, 37 and 42 are most at risk of having workers impacted. That is my district — one of those districts — and I am concerned about the impact. We support worker protections and we understand the spirit of the bill. I am on the bill, but there are still some concerns as to guaranteed employment and how you can compel these parent companies to hire these individuals.

Thank you, Council Member. I appreciate you bringing these concerns because it is fundamental that we address the issue from all sides. I am happy to review that report that you are alluding to. I am also happy to meet with workers in your district and with any other stakeholders that have identified these concerns with you, and we can do that meeting together to make sure that those voices are heard even outside of this forum. I think we all want to make sure that business is successful because business is employing our workers, and we want to make sure our workers are employed in New York City. DCWP is here to be a partner in that.

And from DCWP's perspective, how is Int 0518-2026 intended to address the enforcement, worker protection and accountability challenges that the department has identified in this last mile delivery sector?

I think, as we discussed, the licensing provision, the subcontracting prohibition provisions, and the training provisions — these are all addressing the issues that have come up in the industry that have been raised by advocates, by workers and in various reports that have been released. That is how the bill is addressing these issues, as I understand it. Of course, should the Council want to amend any proposal for the administration, we are also happy to review that.

And what indicators or outcomes would DCWP look into in order to determine whether the legislation is improving conditions without unintentionally harming workers or small business owners?

I think for us, in many ways, we approach this work in a very relational way. If we stand up a successful regime, we want to make sure that we have clear lines of communication with the industries that are impacted and with the workers that are impacted, so we have on-the-ground information about their experience with licensing.

I think New York City is both hyper-national and hyper-local. It is a responsibility that we have to be inside of districts, inside of places, to understand what is happening to New Yorkers day in and day out.

Thank you, Chair. CM De La Rosa.

Thank you. Thank you for being here and for testifying in support of the legislation. I have three questions. The first question is — and I am sorry if I missed this, I walked in after your testimony — can you describe the enforcement mechanism from A to Z? I want to know if companies that have worker violations or labor practice violations, how will enforcement happen for those companies. If there is a track record or a history of union busting from corporations, is that something that is being taken into account for this legislation? And then if you could go a little further into the retention clause and how we foresee DCWP being able to enforce that clause. Thank you.

Thank you for the question, Council Member. Let me start and then I will throw it to my colleagues if they have anything additional to add.

Generally, when it comes to workplaces, our enforcement model really hinges upon scope. Let us say we look into a business, let us say we see a complaint. When we look at that complaint, we are considering: do we think this is happening across the workplace? And if this workplace is a business that has multiple locations across the City, is this happening across the City? From there we can actually take a single complaint and extrapolate dramatically to make sure that we are addressing all the workers that could potentially be harmed. I think that is a similar approach we might take should we hear about worker violations happening in this industry. This bill also maintains provisions to suspend, deny or revoke a license for worker violations that are occurring, which I think is an interesting approach that we have seen in other categories.

Yeah, there is a specific provision at least in the introduced bill for pattern and practice of violations for different violations of that last mile facility that may occur. We know there are violations happening. A lot of us here on the dais have stood at picket lines with the Teamsters, for example, in front of facilities where violations are clearly happening. I was one of those members last year. We stood at the Bronx facility and we saw some of these violations up close. While employment and retention are important and we want our communities to be employed, we also do not want workers to be exploited. I think the model as it exists has allowed for that. So I am proud to be on this bill and I am happy to support CM Cabán and the committee on putting this forward. I think it is important for us to also see how we can augment the enforcement mechanisms when there is a pattern and a history of union busting and exploitation happening in our communities. I look forward to engaging with you on that. Can you walk us through the retention clause and how you all foresee being able to contend with workers who may lose employment?

I think the retention clause effectively requires the last mile facility to offer to rehire any workers that have been terminated to perform the same work that they had previously performed.

In terms of our enforcement, we could either do things proactively or we could respond to complaints from workers who have not been offered those terms as is required under the proposed law. So that means that if a worker is working for a subcontractor at this moment and under this bill subcontracting is prohibited, those workers would basically be retained by a company — Amazon, FedEx, UPS, whoever the parent companies are. Would that then mean that the subcontracting companies would basically cease to exist? Or is there an engagement that will be happening with the City and those companies to iron out what happens? I assume those companies are not just going to disappear, so what is the back-end conversation?

On the first piece, yes, those workers would have to be rehired — would have to be offered rehire — by the last mile storage facility. On the subcontractor component, I would say those subcontractors certainly have legal protections already in place relating to their agreements. The bill also contemplates a grace period. I think the issue that everyone is surfacing about agreements that might be in place between subcontractors and the parent companies is something that we need to make sure we are addressing and reviewing with the law department as well. That is currently in the bill.

Thank you. CM Aldebol.

Yeah, I have a related question to CM De La Rosa's. I just want to understand how will licensing protect workers going forward. They are licensed, but they can be terminated after they are hired by the parent company for any reason. Are there just cause protections for those workers? Workers who want to exercise their right to organize may be retaliated against. We know that the NLRB protects workers against retaliation. But I just want to understand more fully how licensing the parent companies — who will now be the direct employers of these workers — will protect the workers.

Thank you for the question, Council Member. There is a provision in the bill that relates to a termination notice, a 30-day termination notice to the workers, which I think is an important protection, although it is not necessarily as far as our current just cause protections in the fast food industry.

Licensing is an interesting tool because it can help the agency hold a particular licensee accountable. For example, to CM De La Rosa's questions, if we are seeing worker violations coming up in this space, we can use that information to suspend or deny a renewal, to engage in a conversation about what their pathway to compliance will be, otherwise they will lose their license. I think it is a delicate balance to make sure that we are pushing a business into the right pathway for compliance and that those rights for the workers are protected too.

You can think of it in two ways, Council Member — broad and specific. Broadly, the reason why the administration supports this introduction is because we think it will have long-term benefits for workers in this space: their safety, their pay, their dignity, as we were talking about before. Then there are specific provisions in the introduced bill that will be part of the ongoing legislative process to provide specific benefits like a notice of termination and an anti-retaliation provision. There are also recordkeeping provisions — not direct, but important for our enforcement — that allow us to do effective enforcement so we can see that workers' rights are protected.

Thank you, CM Aldebol.

Yeah. Thank you so much. I wanted to follow up on a couple of things here. Deputy Commissioner, you noted from the report a count of potentially 50 last mile facilities over a certain size and 45,000 workers. Are these all the workers of the facilities? I want to get a sense of the subset of delivery workers that we are talking about here.

I apologize, Council Member. I do not know if I have that information directly on who the delivery subset is, but I am happy to get that for you from DCP.

Okay, great. I think one of the things that we have seen is that while obviously this is not just relegated to Amazon, while we see the City providing pretty enormous subsidies to corporations like Amazon in the likes of millions of dollars, we see very little evidence — or none — of any local hire. Do you have any evidence of local hiring provisions? I have never seen all these facilities present any evidence that there is any substantial local hiring happening.

I am sorry, Council Member. I do not believe we have that information on what local hiring practices are required of companies. I think this is one of the arguments that you will hear against...

(01:10:15)

Wanting to raise and improve conditions for workers is that there is going to be giant job losses in local communities that are directly impacted by these facilities. I just need to remind for the record there is no evidence of how much hiring has happened in communities, particularly in directly impacted communities that house a good number of these facilities. It has been a point of contention over many years. So it is important to be clear in the facts of the matter.

I do not think — just to respond to that, I am sorry. I think it is a good point you are raising there. Certainly I think last mile storage facilities by definition, that model is based on proximity and locations within the city as well. In my experience over these past almost ten years we have oftentimes heard of the sky falling on corporate actors because of new protections that are being put in place. I have hitherto not seen that happen.

Yeah. No, that is right. And again, I have to remind folks that these are some of the wealthiest corporations receiving millions of dollars of subsidies, with no evidence of local hiring impact on communities where these facilities are absorbing the brunt of all the other impacts that we are not discussing here today in particular. The other thing — you may have walked through this so forgive me — but it is really important. I think the legislation notes training around particular conditions. Can you talk about the training that the legislation notes and why it is important and what it is trying to address?

Thank you for the question. I think the training is trying to address ultimately an issue that is coming out of the subcontracting model. Whether that is high turnover, whether that is responsibility and liability, making sure that parent companies are responsible for keeping their workers safe and keeping our streets ultimately safe. I think the training provision is one way to get to that issue. Ideally I would see things like direct employment, and I see the notice of termination as other mechanisms to reduce turnover and to ensure that there is stability in the economic lives of workers particularly.

Yeah. Making workers aware of how they can improve their lives and how they can keep themselves safe, and making sure that their employers are providing that information, is very important. It is a core tenet of modern worker protections. As Carlos has said, we are not necessarily the agency that has first-order street safety knowledge. So this is definitely something where we will work with our sister agencies and we will work with the Council as the legislative process moves forward to get language that really makes sense to make sure that the goal of empowering the workers is achieved.

Thank you. I think it is important to note that the legislation is in fact attempting to address some serious issues that have been brought forward through workers, right? When you have an industry that has incredibly high turnover rates and consistent, clear evidence of not only exploitation but really terrible practices and injuries — which there are many documented elements of that behavior — it is important to note that this is about supporting workers and also setting a standard that you cannot come to New York, take millions of dollars of taxpayer dollars, and exploit and injure your workers with no recourse. That is really important to this Council as it is to me. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Council Member. We have certainly seen the same reports from workers themselves about these safety issues and we can certainly work with our colleagues to ensure that this licensing structure is complementary to the goals around safety.

Thank you. I know CM Cabán has one final question I believe.

Not a question actually. I just appreciated CM Ossé's comments and just wanted to name for the record that I think the reporting that you were referencing on retention concerns is the Vox reporting where they acquired a leaked Amazon memo that warned the company was running out of people to hire because of the rate at which they were culling workers. That is all. Thank you.

No, thank you. I just want to make sure that what we are talking about here long-term is about driver safety and motor vehicle safety. It sounds like that is underlying. Is that your assessment of what the goals here are legislatively as well?

I would defer to the Council to describe to us the goals of the legislation. I think we have certainly come to this hearing in full support because of where we see our expertise being able to assist with addressing worker rights, like the protected time off law, like subcontracting and issues that arise from there.

Great. Thank you. Seeing no more questions from members, thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the time to testify and I am sure we will follow up for additional questions.

Thank you, Chair, and we will make sure we have people reviewing this entire testimony today. We know it is an important issue.

Thank you. So I am now going to open the hearing for public testimony. I want to remind the public that this is a formal government procedure and we need to maintain decorum. We need to be able to hear the witnesses and people testifying. So please remain silent. If you want to show support or opposition, you can do it by waving your hands. But we really want to keep the decorum here. People who want to testify need to take the witness stand. There is no recording or photographs allowed at the witness stand. A member of the public may not present video or audio recordings at testimony but may submit transcripts of such recordings to the sergeant-at-arms for inclusion in the record later. If you want to speak today, you can go to the back table and speak to the sergeant-at-arms if you want to sign up to testify on Int 0518-2026. For any written testimony you want to submit for the record, please provide copies to them as well. You can also submit that testimony to testimonies@council.nyc.gov within 72 hours of this hearing.

I now want to bring up the first panel. We have Matan Diner from the New York City Comptroller's Office, Lacy Tabbert from the Brooklyn Borough President's Office and Joan Morardi from the Strategic Organizing Center. Whenever you are ready, you may begin. You have two minutes each. Thank you.

Good morning. My name is Matan Diner and I serve as policy and research analyst for workers rights in the office of New York City Comptroller Mark Levine. Thank you to Committee Chair Epstein and CM Cabán for the opportunity to testify today. Int 0518-2026 is an important piece of legislation that will usher in a sustainable system of package deliveries. The recent exponential growth in e-commerce locally has led to the proliferation of last mile facilities located much closer to residential communities than warehouses historically have been. To examine this phenomenon, last November our office released a report on the industry entitled "Fast Shipping, Slow Justice," which among other issues detailed troubling trends in traffic and worker safety.

The report found that traffic crashes have increased in areas near last mile facilities. Between 2017 and 2022, after a new last mile facility opened, 78% of nearby areas saw more injury-causing crashes. The report also found a high frequency of workplace injuries among last mile facility employees. Between 2022 and 2024, the injury rate per 100 employees was 8.3, more than triple the national average for the private sector. In addition, the report found that injury rates among Amazon's delivery service partner program, comprised of subcontracted firms that exclusively deliver packages on behalf of Amazon, were greater than the rest of the industry.

Given these hazards, Int 0518-2026 is a needed intervention that will establish meaningful regulations to ensure both economic growth and safety. The Bill's direct employment requirement is critical as it will result in the same operators that set delivery terms being liable for incidents on the road, incentivizing them to ensure safety in the routes and quotas they set. In addition, the Bill ensures safety in the industry through training and strong anti-retaliation provisions. Lastly, the provision that gives the City the ability to deny, revoke, or suspend a license due to a recent history of violations will help to incentivize compliance with existing safety laws. If deemed necessary by stakeholders, the Comptroller supports potentially mutually agreed upon amendments to this section that prevent the unnecessary loss of workforce. Thank you.

Good morning, Chair Epstein and members of the committee, and thank you for holding this hearing today. I am representing Brooklyn Borough President Antonio Reynoso, who is working alongside advocates and labor partners to call for regulation of last mile facilities. As a co-sponsor of both the indirect source rule and the last mile zoning text amendment, the Borough President's advocacy has previously focused on the significant environmental and quality of life impacts that these facilities have on the borough's environmental justice communities. Diesel-powered delivery trucks emit higher levels of toxic pollutants than gasoline-powered trucks and recent studies have shown that these facilities are bringing hundreds of trucks per hour to communities such as Red Hook, home to the largest public housing development in Brooklyn.

As you just heard, a report from the Comptroller late last year also found that traffic crashes and injuries, especially truck-related, have increased dramatically near new last mile warehouses. What is more, these facilities take up sought-after space in our city's shrinking manufacturing zones, pushing out the industrial businesses on which our city relies. But this fight has never been just about the environment, safe streets, or even space. Regulating last mile facilities is also about the workers. The Comptroller's employer violations dashboard identifies Amazon as the company with the highest number of open unfair labor practice violations in New York City. The US Attorney for the Southern District of New York is investigating workplace safety issues at Amazon's warehouses. And surely you will hear countless stories today of worker mistreatment in the last mile industry.

Int 0518-2026 aims to address such issues by creating a licensing structure that gives the City oversight on safety, training and employment practices to protect workers. This is not the first time that a coalition of advocates and labor has taken on a dangerous industry to improve both environmental and working conditions. Many of the same organizations and unions in this room took on the corrupt and exploitative commercial waste industry and created an oversight regime called commercial waste zones in 2019. While the program is still being implemented, the initial rollout has led to improved conditions for private sanitation workers, more agency enforcement against unsafe driving practices, and a reduction in vehicle miles traveled in the implemented zones. Importantly, the sky has not fallen. It is possible to regulate an industry, protect workers and protect the environment while allowing the industry to continue to serve its customers. Thank you.

Great. Good morning. Thank you for holding this hearing on this important piece of legislation. I am Joan Morardi and the director of research and campaigns at the Strategic Organizing Center. Since 2021, we have led the charge in using comprehensive data analysis to support workers' accounts of dangerous conditions in warehousing and logistics networks, including last mile delivery. The SOC unequivocally supports the passage of the Delivery Protection Act.

Last November, we contributed to the report from the City Comptroller that has been discussed, and I focused specifically on the issue of worker injuries, which have really exploded as the last mile sector has grown in the US broadly but also particularly here in New York City. Last mile workers experienced more than 2,000 injuries between 2022 and 2024. That is 8.3 injuries per 100 full-time equivalent employees. These injuries are severe. More than eight in ten of these reported injuries required the injured worker to take time away from work or limit their work activities. Across all last mile facilities in New York City, the serious injury rate was 7.2, nearly five times the national average for these kinds of injuries. Amazon workers experience even higher and more severe injury rates compared to the rest of the industry.

This matters because Amazon is the second largest US private sector employer and employs directly or indirectly more than a third of New York City's last mile workforce. Amazon's subcontracted DSP model makes this worse. Between 2022 and 2024, Amazon DSPs recorded an injury rate of 9.2 per 100 full-time equivalent workers and a serious injury rate of 8.1. No matter how you look at it, the injury data speaks clearly to a severe worker injury crisis in the last mile delivery sector, a sector whose business model prioritizes speed and volume over workers' health. The outcomes of this approach are predictable. Injury rates are high, severe injuries are common, and in the case of Amazon, their subcontracting model complicates the enforcement of labor standards. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for the panel. I want to first start with the Comptroller's office. Can you tell us about this report, where you got the data, how did this data come together? I want to get an understanding of what led to this November report.

Sure. Last November we released the report in part because there was not really any sort of comprehensive report about last mile issues within New York City specifically. There had been some from SOC that were more broad. The data on crashes comes from NYPD reporting that we access through NYC Open Data, so anyone here can go in and download it themselves. The data on worker injuries is what we worked on with SOC, and that comes from OSHA injury reporting specifically. I did not really talk about it in the hearing because it is less relevant to this Bill, but we did do a demographic analysis. That comes from census data, and our listing of specific last mile facilities comes from a list provided by DCP — I think DCP had mentioned the 50 facilities.

I mean, it is a stark increase in injuries and crashes. What do you assess those increases to be related to? Why do we see such a divergence in these last mile locations versus other industries?

In the report we explicitly do not say there is a causal relationship because we cannot prove there is a causal relationship, but we did find that crashes increased in a half-mile radius around these facilities. I think that is an indication that more exploration is needed to get to the root cause of it. But it is a troubling trend to see this big increase around these facilities.

And these crashes are related to the last mile vehicles, you are saying, right?

We do not know necessarily that each of those crashes involved last mile vehicles, but we do know there was a drastic increase in crashes, including truck-related crashes. So again it is not causal, but we see an increase in this half-mile radius. That is a red flag that I think should be explored more to get to the source of the problem.

And you saw that consistently throughout the last mile facilities in the city?

Yes. We looked at the period between 2017 and 2022, when there was a big boom in the number of facilities being constructed, and among those, 78% saw an increase in crashes in those areas.

And that is compared to other facilities — like a non-last mile facility, something that is also a facility where there are people driving, whether it is a post office or other facility where there are people driving in and out — you are seeing a higher correlation of crashes near those last mile facilities?

Yes. Again, there was an increase in crashes in those areas. They do not necessarily all involve last mile vehicles, but it is notable that there was an increase in the half-mile radius around last mile facilities and it should be further investigated.

And on the worker injury side, what do you assess as driving the increase in worker injuries, especially substantial worker injuries?

In general, an issue of concern is the lack of direct employment. As the agency was talking about before, we would like to see a model where safety is built into the quotas and the rules set for workers. We find that the lack of legal liability is a core issue and is a contributing cause of many of these injuries. Not purely a cause, but it is a major concern and we think it would be addressed through direct employment and legal liability being brought back into this arrangement.

And do you see higher worker turnover in these facilities? What do you correlate that to?

Our report actually did not look at turnover rates. I know there was a different report that was mentioned. We actually did not look at turnover in our report, but we did find that the vast majority of injuries we looked at involved workers having days away, restricted duties or transfers — so workers having to lose time and not be able to return to work or being restricted to other jobs. That is what we found, but we actually did not look at turnover, so I cannot address that specific part.

Thank you. And Joan, can you tell us about your organization so we understand what it does and where this data comes from?

Sure. We are a labor organization that works with a number of labor unions as affiliates and we do corporate campaign work to help advance corporate accountability on behalf of workers and other constituents, consumers, et cetera. For years we have had a data-oriented focus around this issue. What I think is really interesting and important to understand about this data is that it is data the companies themselves have provided to OSHA, which then publicizes it, and we do analysis of it. Another critical point is that all of this analysis on the worker injuries — which are so terrible, and I can see people's reactions — is only what is provided to OSHA. This is a severe undercount of what is really going on, because companies like Amazon under-report their injuries to OSHA. So this is probably a relatively small amount of what is actually going on, and this has been investigated in a lot of different places, most recently by the Senate HELP Committee, which put out a report showing that Amazon has an internal log of injuries separate from the injuries they report to OSHA. I could not get that into my two-minute statement but I am getting it in now.

So just so I am clear, you are saying injury rates here are higher than you see in other industries and you are also representing that there is under-reporting to OSHA at the same time?

That is correct. So even though you are seeing much higher injury rates across the board in these facilities, you believe that is a fraction of the overall injury rate for workers in this industry?

Absolutely. That has been documented by both OSHA, which has fined Amazon and other companies for under-reporting, and in evidence submitted to the HELP Committee in the US Senate. They did a report in November of 2024. I would be happy to share it.

And what do you assess as the reason why you would see such a high injury ratio in these facilities versus other workplaces?

Again, we did not do a causal analysis, but from our depth of experience I would say it is the pressure — the production pressure, the pressure to fill the trucks as fast as you can in these facilities and on the drivers to deliver as fast as you can. And you heard reference earlier to delivery...

(01:32:54)

Drivers peeing in bottles and taking shortcuts, as we all would do when we are under intense time pressure. But in this instance, that impacts our communities' traffic. It impacts obviously traffic violations and it burdens the workers who have to work at an incredibly fast clip to even try to make their quota, which puts their bodies at risk.

And have you heard that reinforced by workers at all?

Absolutely we have.

And what have they represented to you? I think overall it is the intense pressure to deliver and make their routes in the time they are allowed. It is unbearable. It can be very, very bad particularly during peak seasons. In fact, in some of the reports that we have done, the injury rate skyrockets during peak season. For Amazon, that would be Prime Day, the holiday, the little October mini-Prime. The rates are already bad and they escalate because of the pressure to deliver, to fill the trucks and lift these boxes and put them in the trucks at a rate that is astronomical.

And have you studied the quality of the vehicles? We have heard a little bit about conditions in some of the vehicles that people are being forced to work in. Have you heard much about that?

I have heard about vehicles. I have also heard about what it is like at the actual warehousing where this work is being done. The same issues you hear about broken machinery, or things that are supposed to help workers do this more safely are not working. The same thing is true in the warehouses where these last mile trucks are leaving from. There are also problems, you know, fraud in there as well. So yes, that is a contributor. But I would say overwhelmingly it is just the sheer pace of the work.

And I just want to hear from the borough president's office around whether the borough president has heard from constituents on this issue. Why was this brought to his attention? What was his experience in this industry? It is obviously the biggest borough in our city.

Yeah, definitely. I think we have done a lot of work over many years with a lot of environmental justice advocates and communities, and that was how it first really came to our attention, especially from constituents.

Can you explain the environmental justice issue? Because I want to make sure that we understand it fully.

For sure. We are working on this on multiple fronts, with a shout out to the Council member who was here earlier who has been working on the indirect source rule piece. In fact, at one point this was all one big bill and now it is a couple of different ones. We have been working on the indirect source rule and also the special permit to try to get at some of these issues. What the indirect source rule does is it regulates indirect sources of pollution. Whereas a direct source is, you know, like a factory, an indirect source is all these trucks coming in and out. So we are trying to figure out how we can lessen the impact on these communities that are already experiencing issues with air quality and other things just by virtue of having manufacturing zones, which we do support. But as I mentioned, we are adding thousands of trucks per day into these communities that are already dealing with environmental issues.

They came to our attention really from folks in Red Hook who were saying, "We are breathing in this toxic air. We are dealing with street safety problems." On top of that, we also have the worker issue. That is really why we were like, "Hey, we have looked at a very similar issue before when we did commercial waste zones. It has a lot of the same issues. You have got the truck vehicle miles traveled and pollution problems. You have got the safety of the fleets, which is an issue here. You have got the worker conditions and the pressure to complete routes quickly, and the safety issues that causes for the drivers and for people on the streets." So we see this as a really similar fight: protecting the workers and protecting the people in these communities where these facilities are located.

Can you talk a little more about that waste hauling issue and what did the former Council member, now borough president, identify there?

So as I said, it was really all those things. It was vehicle miles traveled, it was treatment of workers. There are all kinds of similar issues going on like wage theft and exploitation of, for example, immigrant workers, things like that. Then also all these environmental impacts from the trucks, from the facilities themselves. Through commercial waste zones, it is an RFP structure rather than a licensing structure, but it allows you to do a lot of the same things where you are getting more oversight on driver behavior, routing and all the employment things that we can do. Also the condition of the trucks — are you using, for example, electric vehicles as opposed to diesel trucks, things like that. We have had a lot of success with that program so far. It is about a third of the way complete.

So tell us what outcomes you have seen. When you say success, how do you measure that?

Well, it allows the Department of Sanitation to do more enforcement. In addition, we have actually seen more of the companies that are now participating in the program use union labor. There was an issue with what we would call sham unions in that industry, and now we know there are more companies working with the Teamsters than were before. We know they are enforcing worker protections in a real way. We also know that the City now is able to have more oversight on these companies, so they can look at training requirements, fleet safety, routing — they have oversight on all that stuff, similar to what we can do here with a license.

And have you seen changes in injuries to workers? Have you seen safety improvements?

That is a good question. I think sanitation does share with us every month the violations that they have issued, and they are really targeting in the zones that they have rolled out so far. Just from what I have seen through that, a lot of it has to do with drivers driving the wrong way or leaking from trucks, things like that. Not as much egregious behavior as we saw before, but this is just sort of anecdotal. We have to follow up on the data. I think they are a little reticent to share the full impact until the program is rolled out completely, which is unfortunately not going to be until the end of next year.

All right. Well, thank you. I am going to turn to my colleagues.

CM Cabán.

Yes. Thank you all for being here. I want to start by talking about safety climate a little bit, and any and all of you can answer here. What is your understanding of a safety climate and how it contributes to safety outcomes at a workplace?

I think it is a really critical element of being safe on the job and knowing that you are going to return home able to be a full participant in your community and with your family. So I think it is super critical. In places with unions, as you were describing, or with strong safety requirements that are enforced by the government agencies that cover that area, I think it is really critical. It really gives workers the ability to say, "Actually, I cannot complete this in this time frame," or "I need someone else to help me lift all of these boxes. That is not something I can do safely." Having that kind of safety climate where workers can say that without risk of retaliation is critical.

Thank you. And why are anti-retaliation provisions important specifically for safety?

Because there is a pressure, right? The pressure is, if you do not make your rate at Amazon, you get like three shots and then you are fired. That is how it works there. If you feel like you cannot make your rate, and you are not going to the bathroom, you are not drinking your water, you are not doing the basic human things that make things safe when you are doing really intense activity like filling trucks with boxes or running out to your truck and delivering at people's doorsteps — feeling like you are going to be retaliated against and get fired is the ultimate fear. So folks will push past what they know their bodies can handle.

And just to add on, anti-retaliation protection strengthens enforcement because fear of retaliation is often one of the biggest drivers of why workers will not report directly to an agency if there is a violation.

Yeah. Thank you. I just actually want to share a story with you all because it is what this makes me think of. My dad is a retired elevator mechanic, Local One, Otis Elevators. Earlier on in his career he was doing service calls and he also had to do the inspections. At the time they were giving too long a list of inspections for the time he could do it in his shift. So he was getting encouraged to fudge the numbers and just skip through some of the inspections. I mean, we are talking elevators — these are machines that can kill people.

My dad was a whistleblower and he spoke out about it, and his employer tried to fire him. But the union protected him and he kept his job and he was not forced to fudge these reports that were really critical to safety, like whether or not people should be riding in particular elevators at particular times. So I just appreciate that. And then lastly, I just want to ask you a little bit about — I know other folks have asked about turnover — in your experience, what are the characteristics or shared features of job categories that suffer from high turnover? And do you see a connection there with the last mile delivery industry?

Speaking broadly, obviously I do not have the exact numbers. Turnover is often caused by a lack of an attractive job — if it is low pay, high injuries, a bad work environment. When you have these poor working conditions, it creates incentives for people to leave their job and try to find other types of employment, because people can only bear certain bad jobs for a certain amount of time.

Yeah. I would just say on that, particularly when you look at these kinds of industries where the injury rates are so high — if workers have not been injured themselves, they have co-workers next to them who have. That makes them want to get out of these jobs that are also low pay, in order to protect themselves and their ability to make a living for their families in the future.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, CM Brewer.

Thank you very much. We spent a lot of time on delivery workers and we are happy to talk about Amazon. In your studies, are you looking at other types of industries that are experiencing last mile issues, or is it hard to differentiate? Is your data across the board?

In the report, we analyze, at least for the worker safety section, the whole courier industry and then we compare that with last mile employers and find higher injury rates for those employees associated with the last mile facilities as opposed to the larger courier industry, which goes beyond just last mile delivery.

So it is by industry, not by company, basically. That is what you are saying.

Yeah. In the report, we break it down.

Sorry, I have not read it. I apologize.

No, it is okay. We break it down by last mile industry — the 50 last mile facilities that the Department of City Planning identified — versus the courier industry as a whole. We also compare the known DSPs with the courier industry as a whole and find higher rates for that as well.

Thank you.

Great. I do not see any more questions from members. I want to thank this panel for being with us. If you have any other follow-up, please submit it to committee staff. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I want to bring up the next panel: Antoine Andrews, Ira, and David Cohen. Oh, and Jose. I think Jose needs an interpreter. All right. I think David is on Zoom, so we will take David first and then we can go to the people who are in person. David, are you there?

Yes, I am.

Okay. Go ahead. Two minutes.

Yes. I was a DSP owner in Northern California for approximately three years — 2022, 2023 and most of 2024. I am attending today just to get some insight on how you are addressing safety issues with Amazon. I exited the business because I did not feel I could remain profitable while still maintaining safety in the DSP work environment.

David, are you done?

Yes, I am.

Thank you. We will go to the people in front of me.

I am going to do the whole panel together. Thank you. I know Jose, we have an interpreter, so we could do that. Jose?

Yeah. English.

Okay.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Good morning. My name is Jose Suerta. I live in Elmhurst, Queens. I have been an Amazon driver at the station DBK1 for four years. I decided to focus on organizing after a particularly hot summer day when a co-worker fainted. When she called the dispatcher, this was the response: "Sit down, drink some water, and then continue with your work route." The following week, the same thing happened to another woman. She received the exact same response when she called the Amazon dispatcher. I saw this as an opportunity to let my co-workers know what they could do to put an end to this mistreatment.

This is why I reached out to the Teamsters. We held an initial meeting with 10 co-workers to learn how to organize. Someone tipped off the manager about what I was doing. The very next day, the owner of the DSP was waiting for me in the parking lot to have a word with me. I had no idea what it could be about. He asked me what I was doing. I replied, "What do you mean? I am working." He told me, "No, a co-worker told me you were involved in something else." I asked him, "What exactly did they tell you?" He used very harsh language and he insulted me. He tried to intimidate me as I denied the allegations he was making about me. He told me, "If you have other business to attend to, you should go and do it somewhere else, not here."

My greatest fear in that moment was losing my job at Amazon. This should not happen to any worker. Even as a worker who wanted to organize, we have the right to organize. We should not have to face any retaliation from anyone when we try to improve our jobs and our working conditions. The approval of this Bill will provide a safer way for us to continue organizing and to demand what we deserve from Amazon. I ask everyone: please pass this law so Amazon workers and organizers can gain greater strength and continue organizing our fellow co-workers.

Yeah, and if you can wrap it up — I know we gave you double time because of translation, but if we could wrap it up.

He finished already. That was everything.

Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Great. And next is Ira.

I worked at Amazon for six years, from October 2019 to October 2025. I worked night shift at two different delivery stations in Queens. In my time, I witnessed Amazon's daily disregard for the safety of workers and the public. In 2020, in the early weeks of the pandemic, my co-workers and I caught Amazon trying to hide a COVID outbreak in the warehouse. We had to walk out to get them to shut down and clean the warehouse. In 2021, one of my co-workers from inside the warehouse was driving her car with her infant son in the back seat when they were struck by an Amazon van whose driver was rushing to finish his route. Her son was killed in this accident and Amazon denied liability. In 2022, deadly floods hit New York City. The governor declared a state of emergency, instructing residents to stay home. Amazon still required us to report to work. The subways and roads flooded and we got stranded at the warehouse. When the trucks could not get through the floods to bring us the volume, we had no work. So Amazon tried to send us home in rideshares without pay, endangering those drivers who could not get through anyway.

I often worked in traffic control in my six years at Amazon, where we direct drivers through the loading area. I witnessed firsthand how Amazon's obsession with speed endangers drivers and the public. In a rush to get packages on the road as quickly as possible, Amazon managers — not just the DSP owners, Amazon managers — send vans speeding all over the loading area while others work on foot in the drive lanes. I have seen managers yell at drivers to go, go, hit the gas while other workers are still loading those same vans in the chaos. I have seen drivers hit posts, back into walls and almost hit pedestrians, and Amazon claims it is not liable for any of this.

In my time at Amazon, I even tried to find safety rules. I checked the employee handbook and our A-to-Z employee portal and I actually found a document entitled "Safety Guidelines," but it was locked. Employees could not access it. So I asked my managers and I asked HR to help me get access. They said they would look into it. When I checked the app again, the document was gone. It had disappeared. Amazon had removed it entirely. To this day you still cannot get a list of safety guidelines as an employee at Amazon. Safety at Amazon does not exist unless they are using it to discipline workers, and then they just make up rules out of thin air. So this act will save lives.

Thank you. Good. Antoine.

Good morning. Thank you for this opportunity to be here. My name is Antoine Andrews. I am a proud member of Teamsters Local 804 from New York City. I have been with United Parcel Service for 25 years as a package car driver and five years in a warehouse. The reason why I would say that I am a proud Teamster is because of the benefits and the protections that come along with it. But what good are these benefits and protections if I am not healthy and if I get hurt? I want all people in my industry to be able to work safely without fear of retaliation. The Delivery Protection Act will raise health and safety standards in every last mile facility.

I see the race to the bottom every day. I do not want companies like UPS thinking the only way they can compete is to make my job less safe or to subcontract my work. I want to see every delivery driver know that they do not have to get hurt or take faulty vehicles because of pressure from their boss. I also do not want to see any members of the public hurt. UPS is not the only package delivery company in the industry. Every day I see FedEx and Amazon drivers doing the same job I do, maybe not as safely. When I see Amazon drivers dragging those huge bags, my shoulder hurts for them. When I see them struggling with overweight packages, my back hurts for them. When I see double-parked vehicles in bike lanes, knowing that they may be responsible for paying the parking tickets, my heart hurts for them and also for the public.

Nothing about the Delivery Protection Act is complicated. I know what a last mile delivery station is because I report to one — for years, for decades. UPS packages come in, they get sorted, they get delivered. At UPS, I have a center manager responsible for driving, dispatch and on-road issues. UPS owns or leases every building. At Amazon, they want you to believe that this is all separate business. It only seems complicated because it is absurd. Instead of employing center managers, Amazon claims that the people who work in the Amazon warehouse dispatch Amazon trucks and handle on-road issues related to deliveries of Amazon packages.

He can wrap it up soon if you know — I want to...

In closing, I would like to just share a

(01:58:37)

I noticed this week a story about Amazon work. Can we have a quorum here?

(01:58:43)

Can you have everyone in the back just maintain decorum? You cannot stay in the room. I want to respect the speaker. Just finish it up, please.

(01:58:52)

I have witnessed an Amazon delivery driver the same age as my daughter operating the vehicle with packages in the cab area, no seat belts on, side doors open. This is a recipe for disaster. It is absolutely indispensable for this bill to be passed for the sake of the quality of life for all of us. Thank you.

(01:59:12)

Thank you. I have questions for this panel. CM Cabán.

(01:59:16)

Yes. Thank you. David, you still with us online?

(01:59:19)

Yes, I am.

(01:59:20)

Amazing. My first questions are for you. So you are a DSP owner. Based on your understanding of the program, what kind of capital is needed to join the program?

(01:59:31)

I would like to start by saying all DSP owners are required to sign an NDA and I will need to be careful about how I answer my questions, but I think they publicize that you need to show evidence of $30,000 in cash.

(01:59:44)

Okay, understood. So, NDA, the $30,000 in cash. Is there a preference given to well-capitalized people or companies?

(01:59:54)

That was not my experience based on the other DSPs I worked with. Is there a preference given to people or companies who already own a fleet?

(02:00:04)

Also, that was not my experience.

(02:00:06)

Most of the DSP owners that I have worked with were not former fleet owners.

(02:00:14)

And is there a preference given to people with a lot of experience in the logistics industry?

(02:00:19)

Certainly it was a plus in my opinion. But the DSP owners that I worked with had a wide range of backgrounds.

(02:00:29)

Okay. So it might be a fleet of carriers who have a lot of experience. It might be a fleet of carriers where there might not be a demonstrated safety record.

(02:00:40)

Most of the DSPs I interfaced with were entrepreneurs with a wide range of backgrounds.

(02:00:46)

Got it. I want to understand the revenue and incentive structure. What is the relationship between the number of routes or the territory you were given and the revenue and profit you make?

(02:00:59)

I am not sure I completely understand the question.

(02:01:04)

Like, is there... I guess we will ask some different questions to draw it out. Is there bidding over routes between the DSPs? Are there preferable and less preferable territories in terms of revenue?

(02:01:16)

I happen to be in a rural delivery station. I would say that some of your metro areas where you have higher package density tend to be more profitable. But as a DSP owner, you really have no sway in where you are assigned and what routes you are given.

(02:01:44)

And I guess, let us say, is the profit directly related to the number of routes? What does it mean if a vehicle has to be grounded for a safety maintenance reason?

(02:01:59)

I would say most of the profit comes from the number of packages that are delivered per route. So if you have high package density in your route, you are going to make a higher profit. It was very bonus-driven as well.

(02:02:19)

Okay. So essentially, if you ground a van regularly for safety maintenance, you end up losing twice, right? Like the revenue from the route because you are not doing the route that day, and then the cost of the maintenance because you bear the cost of maintaining the vehicle. Is that correct?

(02:02:39)

The pay structure gets a little complicated, especially when it comes to the fleet. It will probably take more time than we have to answer that question.

(02:02:48)

I mean, is that right?

(02:02:52)

Again, I have got to be careful about what I share based on my NDA.

(02:02:55)

Got it. Okay. Can you walk us through selling your business? If you want to sell your business, does anyone besides you and the buyer have a say in whether the sale can go forward?

(02:03:06)

I did not sell my business. I simply closed it. I think that is most often the case. I have heard of other DSPs who tried to sell their business and whoever buys that business still needs to be vetted by Amazon. It is difficult to sell a DSP.

(02:03:27)

Interesting. Who issues credentials for the employees? Can you independently issue credentials for a driver to access the facility?

(02:03:38)

...

(02:03:39)

The last mile facility.

(02:03:40)

I recruited, hired and onboarded all my drivers. The background check was coordinated through Amazon and they held the criteria for those background checks. They could deny based on the background check results. Drivers were also drug tested. If everything passed the background check and drug test, that is when credentials were given by Amazon, where they could be entered into the Amazon portal.

(02:04:14)

Okay. So if you hired somebody and then Amazon denied the credentials, would you continue employing the driver?

(02:04:27)

If they did not pass the background check or drug test, I could not hire them.

(02:04:34)

And could you credential a driver to access the Flex app without Amazon?

(02:04:41)

...

(02:04:42)

Not without Amazon approving it.

(02:04:46)

Okay. I have more questions, but

(02:04:48)

I will save it for a second round. I have questions for the panel. Thank you so much, David.

(02:04:53)

Yeah.

(02:04:54)

So, you work directly with Amazon?

(02:04:59)

Yeah, I worked at DBK1 in Woodside and DBK4 in Maspeth, inside the warehouse as a

(02:05:04)

direct employee. And so what was that hiring process

(02:05:09)

like for you? I did not apply. I signed up to work at Amazon.

(02:05:16)

Yeah. Did you know people who worked for a DSP?

(02:05:19)

Yes. Yes.

(02:05:20)

And what did their hiring process look like?

(02:05:23)

They have got to apply to the DSP. Then they have got to have the DSP put them into the Amazon credentialing process,

(02:05:33)

right?

(02:05:34)

And if it is approved by Amazon and the DSP wants to hire them, then they can get hired.

(02:05:38)

And what were the training requirements for people being hired?

(02:05:44)

It varies by DSP, but generally — and I was not a driver myself — of the dozens and dozens of drivers I know, sometimes they get a ride-along from a manager, or they get a ride-along from a more experienced driver, or they get a ride-along from a trainer. It might last longer for some than others. Again, I am not a driver, so I have not been privy to all of that, but

(02:06:18)

So you said it depended on the DSP. There would be different training per DSP.

(02:06:24)

I have never been involved in the DSP trainings. I just know from people I have talked to, so I am not an expert.

(02:06:31)

So they have told you about the different levels of training.

(02:06:35)

There is an Amazon-employed driver trainer that works with drivers, but basically they get put out on the road and then it is up to the DSPs to take it from there.

(02:06:45)

Right. All right. Thank you.

(02:06:49)

Go ahead. I want to see what I want to hit here.

(02:07:03)

Actually, I will wait for another panel. Thank you.

(02:07:10)

Great. Thank you for your testimony. I want to bring up the next panel. Randy Pierce from the Brooklyn Chamber, Jessica Walker from the Manhattan Chamber, Lisa Swordon from the Bronx Chamber, and Zach Miller from the Trucking Association of New York.

(02:07:31)

And then Sarah Witfung is on Zoom.

(02:07:34)

So Sarah, if you are here, can you join us first? Oh, Sarah is not with us.

(02:07:42)

Okay. Well, then when you all get

(02:07:44)

settled, since I am a Manhattanite, I will ask the Manhattan Chamber to go first. Why do you not sit? I do not want to put pressure on you, but

(02:08:00)

not to be biased here. Jessica Walker is the best.

(02:08:04)

Thank you. I have to stand up for my borough, you know. Hey, we have more Manhattanites here

(02:08:09)

finally. There we go, Gale. Good afternoon, Chair Epstein, members of the committee, and CM Cabán. I am Jessica Walker, president and CEO of the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce, representing more than 125,000 businesses across this borough. The Manhattan Chamber opposes Int 0518-2026 in its entirety. Let me be clear about why, because it is not the reason that sponsors might expect. I support every goal this bill claims to address. I want delivery workers to be safe. I want them paid fairly. I want our streets safer. I want real accountability. Those goals are not in dispute. What I oppose is the mechanism, because the mechanism does not achieve any of them and it imposes serious collateral damage on small businesses and consumers in the process.

New York City's last mile delivery industry is already regulated by 12 regulatory regimes, from DCWP and the Department of Buildings to OSHA and the NLRB. This bill adds a 13th without retiring any of the others. The right question is not should there be regulation. It is: are the existing 12 failing? And if so, why is the answer to create a 13th instead of bolstering those we already have? Meanwhile, this bill would eliminate many small businesses in New York City that employ thousands of people, totally put them out of business. It would force operators to either absorb workers on terms they never negotiated, or relocate across the Hudson, exporting jobs and tax revenue while the trucks still roll through the same neighborhoods.

This is the equivalent of putting a New York City tariff on every package that is brought into our city. 2.5 million packages a day. Everyone would pay more. These costs would be borne by the family in East Harlem ordering diapers and the senior on the Lower East Side waiting on medications. So this is at odds with an affordability agenda. If this Council is serious about safety, fund DCWP. I have other ideas if you would like me to continue, but okay, I will wrap up. I want to get to the other panelists too.

(02:09:03)

industry is already regulated by 12

(02:09:06)

regulatory regimes from DCWP and the

(02:09:09)

Department of Buildings to OSHA and the

(02:09:11)

NLRB. This bill adds a 13th without retiring any of the others. The right question isn't should there be regulation. It's are the existing 12 failing? And if so, why is the answer to create a 13th instead of bolstering those we already have? Meanwhile, this bill would eliminate many small businesses in New York City that employ thousands of people, totally put them out of business. It would force operators to either absorb workers on terms they never negotiated, or relocate across the Hudson, exporting jobs and tax revenue while the trucks still roll through the same neighborhoods. This is the equivalent of putting a New York City tariff on every package that is brought into our city. 2.5 million packages a day. everyone would be more expensive. These are that would be paid for by the family in East Harlem ordering diapers and the senior on the Lower East Side waiting on medications. So, this is at odds with an affordability agenda. If this council is serious about safety, fund DCWP, I have other ideas um if you'd like me to continue, but um >> Okay. You want to just wrap up? I want to I want to get to the other panelists, too. Okay, I'm saying she can wrap up. I'm not sure where the outrage was there.

(02:10:32)

So just chill out, folks. We were not going to testify. I will submit my written testimony. I do have some real solutions for some of the things that this bill aims to address. I will leave it there.

(02:10:43)

Did you give us written copies? I did not, but I will.

(02:10:46)

Okay. Do you want to just give us a couple of points since we do not have it in writing?

(02:10:49)

Sure. I will be very quick. As I said, fund DCWP, regulate worker quotas directly, mandate vehicle safety technology, fix the streets around these facilities — which was highlighted in the comptroller's report — require public reporting of injury and crash data by facility. None of those are in this bill. None of those would require decimating the small businesses that are

(02:11:11)

Thank you. I do not know how many times people... It is really not helpful. You are allowed to have your opinion. We want to get testimony in. Just doing that is going to take away from the hearing. Go ahead.

(02:11:34)

I do not know who is next.

(02:11:40)

Good afternoon, Chair Epstein and members of the committee. My name is Lisa Sa and I am the president of the Bronx Chamber of Commerce. The Bronx Chamber of Commerce is dedicated to supporting and advocating for 27,000 local businesses in our beautiful borough, especially micro businesses. I am here on behalf of over 10,000 employees who will be severely impacted by this legislation, especially those in the Bronx whom I have had the opportunity to speak with.

There is a strong misconception that the direct service providers mistreat their workers and that this legislation would improve worker safety by ending the DSP model and mandating that companies like Amazon directly employ all workers. When preparing these remarks on this bill, I took time to speak to some of those DSP small business owners. These are not faceless operators. They are entrepreneurs like Randy, Jordan, Ron, Bass, Ty, EMTT, Joe, Chris, and others who have built their businesses from the ground up. These eight business owners alone employ over 200 people. These are all immigrants, veterans, and first-generation business owners who often started as delivery drivers themselves and worked their way up. They have achieved the American dream and are now working for their employees to do the same.

These DSP owners offer tuition reimbursement and workforce development. Many also provide loans, financial mentorship and housing assistance, often helping individuals transition out of shelters. Like many small businesses, they offer something that large companies cannot replicate through direct employment: deeply personal, community-rooted relationships. This bill is premised on the idea that these business owners and their employees would be better off working directly for large corporations. Taking away one's freedom to apply and accept a job of their choice is not only wrong on the policy level, but on the moral one. I know the supporters of this bill believe they are doing good. I ask Council members to more strongly consider the desires of these workers whose livelihood will be impacted by this legislation. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and for your ongoing commitment to micro businesses.

(02:14:13)

Thank you. I will just remind people that if you continue to make noise, we are going to remove you from the chamber. This is the last warning. If people continue to make noise, we will have you removed and then you will have the opportunity to testify. Go ahead.

(02:14:30)

Good afternoon. My name is Zach Miller. I am the vice president of government affairs at the Trucking Association of New York. TANY is proud to represent a diverse group of fleets throughout the state of New York. We have fleet members as small as a single-unit owner-operator all the way up to large national carriers. The bulk of our fleet membership are small to midsize fleets, still family-owned and operated. That is why we strongly oppose Int 0518-2026.

We are seeing real growth in key areas such as warehousing, logistics and transportation. Approximately 15% of New York City's private sector jobs are in the industrial economy and roughly 70% of those roles do not require a college degree, making them accessible, family-supporting careers that underpin our broader economy and supply chains. Within this landscape, last mile delivery has emerged as the primary entry point into the trucking industry and small business ownership. While previous generations of trucking companies grew by servicing local factories, production facilities or farms, these pathways have largely disappeared due to shifting economics and global supply chains. In their place, last mile delivery, particularly in dense urban areas, has become the modern on-ramp to entrepreneurship in commercial transportation. It provides real and accessible opportunity for minority and immigrant-owned businesses, military veterans, justice-impacted individuals and those who do not hold a college degree. These are pathways to entrepreneurship.

In a city like New York, last mile delivery is about far more than small packages. Furniture, appliances and specialty goods are routinely delivered directly to homes, due in part to shifting consumer behavior and in part because retailers simply do not have enough space to store inventory on site. This system is essential to how the city functions. We do believe that given the level of investment we are seeing and the projected growth in freight demand over the next 20 years, the city should take a closer look at segment-specific training and education requirements as well as a thoughtful facility licensing framework. We commend the Council for raising these important considerations and look forward to working collaboratively with both the City Council and the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection to bring these ideas to life.

(02:16:38)

Randy. Yeah.

(02:16:40)

Randy Pierce, president of Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce. So, the licensing requirement is a red herring. Let us be real about that. This is not about the proliferation of these facilities in our communities, because you could address that through capping them or through proximity laws like we do with liquor licenses. This is not about large trucks, because we actually have these facilities closer to consumers. So when any of these facilities shut down, you are going to have larger trucks coming in from longer distances in order to deliver these products. So it is really not about that either. It is really about the direct hire mandate. That is really what this comes down to. At the end of the day, this direct hire mandate puts a whole subsector of our economy out of business. This is a fact.

Now, if you are comfortable doing that, that is fine. We keep using this term "rehire." DCWP used this term. Oh, but the workers will be rehired. They are not rehired. No court in the United States is going to force a company to hire a particular classification of workers. So I do not think that holds water. You need to think about that long term. The reality here is people are going to lose their jobs. The reality is we are cutting an entire subsector of our economy of small businesses. Last year was the first year since COVID that we had more businesses close than open in the City of New York. Last month, labor data showed that in 2025 we lost 20,000 jobs in this city. Do you really want to shut down a whole other subsector of our economy? Do you really want to hurt entrepreneurs who have put their blood, their sweat, their tears and their own capital into making these businesses a success? I really hope not. But that is what we are talking about. Thank you.

(02:18:38)

Thank you all. I am happy to ask any of the panelists about the safety data we saw on the control report. Did anyone here look at that control report from the end of last year? Does anyone dispute the findings of the report found around traffic incidents and increase in injuries to workers?

(02:18:59)

No, of course you cannot dispute it. I mean, that is the facts, but I think...

(02:19:03)

So, just not to be whatever, but we agree with that foundational issue. There is an increase in accidents and an increase in worker injuries. I think foundationally that sounds like there is consensus on that, right? So the next question is how we fix those problems, and I think that is what you were trying to address earlier. But if those foundational issues are real, we have to address those. Is that right?

(02:19:30)

Does everyone agree that we have to...

(02:19:31)

address the increase in accidents and increase in worker injuries? We have to manage those issues, right?

(02:19:39)

Yes.

(02:19:44)

I do not believe that by putting Int 0518-2026 forward we will resolve those issues, because I think there is accountability from the 13 agencies that Jessica had addressed, and the DSP owners are not looking to harm their employees. So I really think mandating a company to hire or unionize will not make any difference. It is really about the owners. It is about the employees, and you have 10,000 employees who decide that is where they want to be. Why should they have to be forced to work where they do not want to? I do not know of any other legislation that addresses safety concerns by shutting down an entire industry. So if you can show me one, then I would be happy to respond to that.

(02:20:30)

So it sounds like there is an agreement that worker safety issues are important. There is an agreement that we need to deal with the issues of additional crashes that are happening in our City. So the questions are how do you resolve those problems? I think this legislation is at its core trying to help us resolve those problems. It sounds like you may disagree that it will resolve those problems, but we need tools to be able to resolve these issues in our City. We can see comparable data from other related industries and we do not see those kinds of injuries and traffic accidents happening, even though they are similarly situated companies and similarly situated situations that are direct hire. So we see it very differently if you look at the correlates. Do you see that data?

(02:21:22)

You go. Go ahead.

(02:21:25)

No, we actually see the industry making incredible improvements in safety, training, education and the incorporation of technology. The trucking industry is operating safer than it ever has and we have the data to prove it. Not only that, but in the state of New York, we are the safest large state when it comes to commercial transportation. These are facts. In addition, we are seeing the success. So...

(02:21:48)

"Say the facts" — you are saying that the controller's report, those are... I question why that came from the controller and not DOT. The truth is we are seeing the success of Vision Zero on the streets in New York City. Not only that, the industry has adopted a Vision Zero mentality where the culture of compliance is we find the serious crashes and fatalities unacceptable in the industry. We are making the investments we need to make to continue to grow and become as safe as possible. We all operate on these streets. Our employees operate on these streets. Our families operate on these streets. Nobody is more incentivized to operate safely than the trucking industry.

So I just want to be clear. You are saying that you do not believe the controller's report has actual factual... It is not about belief or not belief. I question why it came from the controller's office and not DOT.

Okay. But you do not disagree with the underlying premise that the controller's office report did. I did not drive through the data the way they did. I do not have the resources to do that. I am not in a position to publicly say yes or no. I am saying what we are seeing in the industry is we have never been safer. We are proud of our safety and we will continue to do whatever it takes.

So it sounds like you agree that we need to improve safety and the industry is working to do that as well. The industry is making every investment necessary in safety. We have never been safer on the streets of New York City. Vision Zero is working. We know it is working and it is part of the industry's culture.

Great. Did you want to add something? May I? I just wanted to say that I think we also need to put this in context. We now have 2.5 million packages arriving per day. That is double what it was before COVID. We have a proliferation of ebikes. The streets are a lot different than they were previously. So we need to take all of that into account when we are looking at that data.

So you are saying there are more ebikes and trucks on the road? Absolutely. There are more electric mini Amazon vans on the road. We are delivering more packages. So that is a factor in determining how we proceed. Absolutely.

There are more accidents in industrial zones. Most of these facilities are in industrial zones which are side by side with other types of industrial uses including large manufacturers and others. When we talk about last mile specifically and we talk about ebikes and quads and walkers, we are talking about how do we make sure that the operators understand the rules of the road and the density of New York City, to make sure that there is specific training there as more and more of that equipment comes online. And so you would support a unified training standard, it sounds like, to make sure that we are all getting the same information to the same people, to have training across the board to make us all safer. What we support is specific segment training and we would like to see it become a best practice.

Great. I want to turn to my colleagues to see if folks have questions here.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I want to...

All right. Thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for giving your testimony. I just wanted to address one thing: why would a comptroller decide to do a report? That is because the comptroller is the city's watchdog and they audit a whole bunch of industries and that is simply their job. I do not think there is anything nefarious about that. So yeah, I just thought that was interesting.

As far as I can tell, I know that there were comments about how this would be tantamount to a tariff, but as the bill is written, there is no minimum wage or benefits mandated in the bill. There are no new fees or taxes in the bill beyond the $500 fee for the license. There are no restrictions or limits on the volume, the location, or the mode of deliveries. I just wanted to name that. CM Brewer, go ahead.

One question — to me, and you know better than I, but there are the smaller organizations like in the Bronx that you described that have built their business, and then there is Amazon and perhaps others that are equally large. Do you see a difference between how they operate and maybe where the bill should apply and where it should not apply, or is that too nuanced? But I do understand what you are trying to say. We do have different types of companies. The Bronx, and then Jessica Walker always has to answer for me. Thank you.

You are playing that Manhattan card again, Gale. I see it. Always.

I need my Bronx Council support here. There is a difference and I think the City does a good job in regulating. We talk about the accidents — Randy made a great point about industrial areas when we are looking at small business. Yes, the Amazons of the world versus DSPs. I guess my question is, if you are looking for safety, it is not a one-size-fits-all. At the end of the day, Amazon is a massive corporation. That is a separate entity from those who work to deliver from these last mile delivery companies. The accountability goes across the board. So I do not think it is a matter of size. I think it is a matter of equal footing. If there is a problem, then address it with the company that is having the problem, not sweeping legislation that will hurt more than it will help. The Bronx still has such a high unemployment rate. The last thing we are looking at as a chamber is to see that unemployment rate rise and small business entrepreneurs close.

Why do you think it would curtail or kill the small business if people are under this bill? Well, because if you are forcing them to be hired by a corporation, those who own the small businesses — what are their options? What about the employees who depend on these small businesses? The average employer for a DSP that I had an opportunity to speak with has about 100 to 125 employees. That speaks volumes. Even by one closing in an area like the South Bronx, you are losing a huge amount of people. And so, by your own report, 30% of the square footage is operated by Amazon, 60% is operated by FedEx and UPS. That is 90%, and 10% is operated by these third-party logistics facilities. So by your own report, it already tells you what is going to happen to these workers and these DSPs.

Thank you. I also just wanted to add, because I forgot to mention, that you testified that in terms of the re-employment provision there has never been legislation like that. I just want to name that we do have worker displacement laws in New York City — hotel workers, food service workers, building service workers. In fact, this bill was modeled expressly after the hotel licensing law. So it does exist. Thanks, Chair.

So we will see how that holds up. You keep calling this a rehire. It is not a rehire. You are having one company hire a set of workers that they were not previously employed with. Thank you. Thanks.

Yeah, CM Aldebol. I raised questions about how this would impact small businesses and whether there is a way to have some safeguards in the legislation protecting workers. This is more than just about safety. This is about protecting workers' rights without fear of retaliation. Workers should be able to report health and safety violations and wage violations without fear of retaliation. We are talking about parent companies that really control everything from the policies of the last mile driver companies. In some cases, it has been reported to us that the parent companies hire, fire and discipline workers for reporting any issues.

The subcontractors are basically being squeezed by the parent companies on everything — they are liable for any accidents that happen, they are liable for their insurance rates, they are liable to get sued, and the parent company has very little liability even though they have a lot of control. So I think what I would like to hear from you is, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater, how can we improve this bill to safeguard those entrepreneurs that you are speaking about? I have spoken to some of them as well. But also, how do we safeguard those workers whose rights are being violated essentially by a parent company that is dictating to these small contractors?

Also, the productivity rates are so high that the parent company is dictating the level of productivity to the subcontractors, who are facing the pressure of keeping up and having to apply the gas, so to speak, on the workers, when they could simply hire more workers and reduce productivity to a reasonable level. That would mitigate the safety concerns that we have.

So, thank you. A few things. I mentioned in my testimony today that you could pass a bill that would look at the worker quotas essentially. You might remember when I was growing up, we had a pizza company who promised you would have your pizza in 30 minutes or less...

...or it was free. Exactly. And they realized that was not a very good idea because then they had a lot of delivery workers who were speeding. So you can say that is not an acceptable practice and make that illegal today. You could do that.

On some of the other things we talked about, there are laws now that cover retaliation — that is already illegal. DCWP... all the DSPs are their own independent companies and they do have to adhere to existing laws. There are many in New York City to make sure that employers are doing the right thing. So if there is a question of them not adhering to those existing laws, then that is about enforcement, and that is different from creating a whole new regime through this bill.

Councilmember, when you were describing the subcontracting relationship, I actually felt like that is what government does to nonprofits when they contract with them. They dictate all the terms and then they do not even pay them, which is very interesting. So I think we need to look at that more holistically. I will add simply: maybe we pause and get back to the table and figure out a balance between this bill and something that can help, so that it is not a sweep. We are willing to sit at the table and have these discussions.

I am going to do some legal research on this, but I view the parent companies as a joint employer. When the parent company has so much control, there may be one or two things in the criteria to define a parent company as a joint employer that these large parent companies have been able to skirt by saying, "Oh, no, they have their own trucks and whatever." So there has got to be a way to hold the parent company responsible when they basically dictate everything that the subcontractor and the workers have to do. They are basically the indirect employers of these workers and they are able to skirt labor law. They are able to skirt all the City laws. The workers — who do they go to to make the parent company follow the rules? It has historically been a way for these large corporations to skirt labor law, just cause laws, sick day laws, and to basically avoid all of that and not provide the workers what they need to do their job effectively and safely. We are just trying to make them responsible. They should be responsible.

Do you want to... Sorry. So again, DSPs are their own companies. They do have to adhere to those laws already in terms of paid sick leave and all of that. That is the current law. I lost my train of thought. Go ahead.

I think when I spoke to these eight DSPs, what touched me the most is that their benefits are incredible, especially for these small businesses — from tuition reimbursement to financial education. All eight of them came up with the same thing. These are opportunities to assist workers in becoming their own DSP operators. And I think if the challenge is so big with the parent company, as you say, then I think it is a sit-down conversation about how to handle the parent company. The DSPs are being thrown into the mix when they are trying to do the best by their employees because that is their business. That is their mom-and-pop business. And they would not risk their mom-and-pop business over another company because there are options for them. So my fear is that while it is believed that these major corporations are not doing the right thing, it is the major corporations that should be held accountable, not the small mom-and-pop stores that really are the ones that sustain areas like Hunts Point and parts of the South Bronx where most of these businesses are located and where residential growth is happening. So I think it is a mixture of looking at both and not competing, because I will be honest — I was completely impressed with the amount of benefits these DSPs offer their employees.

And they are here, so you are going to hear from them and you will hear from their workers too. You do not have to take our word for it.

Thank you. CM Banks.

Yeah. Thank you, Chair. I want to get to a middle point on this particular bill because I do not want to completely harm a group of small business owners who I know very well, who have stabilized some of our local communities with local hiring, but at the same time there is a need for worker protection. I think that is the middle where we come to. So I would want to ask you: can you suggest some improvements to the bill so we can get to a middle point?

I mean, I think you need to eliminate the direct hire provision. That is first and foremost. That said, in your own bill you have recommendations or regulations around training. DCWP would designate a last mile facility training organization to conduct training for the last mile facility workers. That is a good thing. We can come up with a standardized curriculum across different DSPs, across Amazon, across FedEx and others, so that there is consistency in that. That would give DCWP a benchmark to work off of.

Can I just add quickly — because it is not Amazon or FedEx, it is last mile urban freight, it is the entire ecosystem — we would like to see best practice training and education. It is not about one company or another company. It is the segment.

And I know the testimony earlier was that there is no employment guarantee if this bill goes through. Is that everybody's agreement? And there is no way to compel any business or any parent company to hire if this bill goes through. Okay. Just want to get clarity on that. Hopefully we will get other folks to give their pros and cons, but I just want clarity on that. Thank you.

Yeah, I think it would end up in the courts and probably be denied.

CM Banks, does that...

Thank you, Chair. That concludes my questions.

Thanks. I think we should dig in a little because I think there are some good arguments, especially when a person is being hired from one company to do the same work for another. I think there might be some good case law on that. I am not an employment lawyer, even though I was a lawyer back in the day. I do not think I agree with that assessment. It does not mean it will not end up in court, but I do not agree with that final statement. I think we could leave that for other lawyers to evaluate.

Have any of your entities — chambers, businesses — been told by another company that you can or cannot hire someone? To me, this is an odd experience. I have never, working in a lot of places over many years, had another entity, another corporation say, "I cannot hire that person." It seems like an odd arrangement where Amazon has so much power and control over whether you hire someone or not. Have you seen this in other industries where some other entity says you cannot hire that person?

Certain government contracts...

So government contracts — where you might have to get fingerprinted because you might be working with children. But this is not government entities. Beyond that, agencies have actually wanted to see...

Not government. I am saying non-government. Yeah, non-government.

It affects my industry as a nonprofit. That is the answer. Nonprofits get affected by this all the time.

Sure. But I am saying one for-profit affecting another for-profit.

Well, the closest thing I could think of is a franchise model. That is essentially what this kind of looks like, or the closest to it.

So like Burger King or McDonald's — would they say you can hire that person in your store?

I do not know. It is proprietary, supposedly. But there are specific guidelines that franchisees have to take on. That is part of the deal and that is the closest thing I could think of to this.

And just another question — I know you mentioned a lot about people losing jobs, but if this legislation were to pass as is, obviously bills change all the time, there is still going to be a need for someone to deliver packages. So there are still going to be those jobs. The only question might be who the employer is, but those jobs to deliver will still continue to exist. That is how I see it. If you see it differently, I would love to hear that.

I guess I see it differently because if you have 1,200 employees over eight DSPs — and I will keep using the same example — who is to say that the larger corporations, whoever they may be, are mandated to hire those 1,200? They may be able to do it with 800. So what happens to those other 400?

And then the second part to that — you agree that someone has to deliver those packages.

Correct.

So the question is whether those same 1,200 people will be hired, but you agree that people will have to be hired to deliver them.

They will have to be hired, but then it is easier to put them in a big truck and deliver them versus putting them in small vehicles, and you are damaging mom-and-pop businesses by forcing them to hire. But then what happens to all the mom-and-pop shops that are the ones that sustain that?

Setting the mom-and-pops aside for a moment, I just want to make sure we have the premise clear: there will still be jobs, though not necessarily for everyone. There might be more or there might be less, depending on what a facility can do. They could pick up and move to New Jersey or Nassau County and deliver through longer routes and bigger trucks. This is what can happen and they would not be subject to the same regulations. So there will still be deliveries in the five boroughs. Someone is still going to have to drop that off at someone's house.

That is right. But there will be fewer last mile facilities here.

So your concern is that people will have a last mile facility outside of the five boroughs and bring bigger trucks in to do that delivery. There will still be trucks in neighborhoods and there will still be people dropping off those packages. They might be off bigger trucks — is that your concern?

(02:44:52)

There would be bigger trucks for sure, and less competition. I mean, we want small companies, localized companies to make as many New York City deliveries as possible. This will really hurt the competition. And part of what we are seeing... you are saying because there will be all Amazon, there will be less competition through the DSPs, through small businesses in general. I mean, I think the risk is that we would create a system where only a couple of companies would deliver all the freight in the city, because they would be all direct hires from Amazon. You are saying because there is no opportunity for somebody to start a trucking company. Like we say, our members start one person, one truck, one route. That used to be farms, that used to be factories. Now a lot of it is e-commerce. We want that competition. We want that pathway to entrepreneurship. We do not want one or two companies delivering all the freight. And we are still just talking about small parcel. New Yorkers are getting everything delivered to their home. That means smaller companies doing it or larger companies on larger trucks from further out with more vehicle miles traveled, less economic opportunity to have electric trucks, to have cargo bikes, to have quads, to have the things that we want to see New York City scaling up. But is not Amazon buying those electric bikes? Are they not the ones putting them in facilities? I believe most of them belong to the small companies. I do not believe most of them are Amazon.

Okay. I am going to go to my colleagues to see if they have other questions. Council Member, may I just say... I just want to say it also drives up costs. Because when you are pushing businesses out, as Randy said, we are talking about the longer routes.

And I understand the concern that it could be. It might not be, and you are making a representation that it would be, but we really do not know if it was a different model, how different it would be, whether Amazon would just take over the existing facilities and continue to operate or they might go to other locations or DSPs would operate outside the five boroughs. You are making representations that may or may not happen based on changes, and we have seen this happen in other industries. Like the hotel act last year, the sky was falling when we made these changes, and you know, business hotels continue to make profit. We have seen in February and March we had record turnout in hotels in New York. We have seen this fear raised before, that this is going to destroy an industry, and when push came to shove the changes did not result in that. You know, the concerns that were flagged during the hearings...

I would say trucking does not like hotels. I appreciate that, Council Member. I would just say today EDC announced the latest business formation numbers: three quarters in a row of more business closures than openings. There is an issue here. And this legislation... I do not see any path, no matter how businesses absorb it. I do not see any path that does not drive up costs.

I appreciate that. I wanted my colleagues... yes, I have both a comment and I will ask the question again. You know, the model that these last mile facilities have is to meet the demand that people have to have their packages delivered within a day, within hours. They cannot do that if they are remote in Long Island or New Jersey. Trucks are coming in from New Jersey and other places where they have their sorting facilities. They are coming into these last mile delivery places. The reason that these last mile delivery places exist is because the demand to have packages delivered quickly has increased since COVID. So your premise that these DSPs are going to disappear and move someplace else does not fit the model of the reason why they exist in the first place. They want to be in urban centers so they can do the fast deliveries.

The problem is that there is a productivity increase with the same number of workers and drivers, and the demands on productivity continue to go up and up and up and up. That is untenable for workers. It is creating safety issues. It is harmful to workers. It is harmful to our communities. So we want to come up with a solution that is going to rectify that.

So regulate the quotas and say that maybe New York will be the only place where people cannot get packages in two days. I mean, you can say that if that is what you would like to do. But I am just saying that that is mandating, that is managing quotas, as opposed to decimating an industry.

And I do not think you said the DSPs would pick up and move. I am not sure that is exactly what we inferred. If we did, I apologize for that. That is not what we were inferring because... I am just reacting to what you said that they are going to...

90% of the facilities are already owned by the Amazons and the FedExes and others. So I do not think the DSPs are going to pick up and move, but there will be facilities owned by Amazon or FedEx and others in Nassau County and New Jersey that will figure out... because it is a simple equation for them. The more workers I have to take on here in New York City, there is an additional cost to that. And if I can just move that facility or those workers somewhere else and then truck it in from there, it is going to be cheaper.

And I just want to make one quick comment. I guess what concerns me is we seem to be focusing on one corporation mostly, and I think it is important to his point and others that there is a lot more than just the Amazons of the world. I personally would love to be able to have the conversation as to how everybody fits into this mold, because there are other companies that may not be doing what you believe one other company may be doing. I just think that the use of Amazon solely — one bad apple per se — cannot affect the entire industry. If the problem seems to be Amazon, because the name has come up more times than... I think the conversation needs to be had with Amazon, right? If that is the key problem here. If there is one company that you believe is not doing the right thing, then let us have that conversation instead of sweeping across the entire industry.

I have not mentioned Amazon once, but you know, Amazon has probably the largest market share of the last mile delivery industry. So certainly Amazon is miles apart, but any... and it is forcing, because of its policies and its corporate model, it is forcing other last mile delivery companies to behave in the same way. So the issue is not just Amazon, but the impact that companies like Amazon, who have the largest market share of this industry, have been having on smaller last mile delivery companies has kind of been industry-wide. So those are our concerns. And quite frankly, when you have a parent company, whether it is FedEx, Amazon, whatever the company is, kind of driving these policies through its subcontractors, the workers are left behind because the subcontractors are telling their workers not to report things. There have been companies who report too many injuries and Amazon or whatever company has cut them out. So that is another way that it has kept these subcontractors from reporting injuries, from reporting wage theft, all of these things. Not every subcontractor is a bad subcontractor. But the reality is that when you have a parent company that is dictating how you employ your workers and manage your workforce, it makes it difficult on both sides. And that is where you get these issues with workers' rights being violated, workers not reporting safety issues, workers not reporting trucks or vans that are not well-maintained, safety issues with equipment.

They are just not reporting it because the subcontractors are afraid that the parent company is going to cancel their contract. So then they are putting the pressure on the workers to not report, to do what you have got to do to make it work.

60% are owned by FedEx and UPS as per your own report. So Amazon is not the largest market share. I want to thank this panel for your testimony today. It was really helpful and I am sure the sponsors would be happy to follow up with you after this, but thank you all for your time. I want to bring up the next panel: Richard Blum, Thomas Gizwald, Shane Mitchell, Danielle Okampo, and on Zoom is Brendan Griffith. CM Epstein needed a short break, so we will start with Brendan Griffith, who is on Zoom. Did he disappear?

I am here, Council Member. Thank you. If you can start.

Sure. Good afternoon. My name is Brendan Griffith and I am president of the New York City Central Labor Council AFL-CIO. We represent over 300 unions and 1 million working people across the five boroughs of New York City. I want to thank Chair Harvey Epstein and the other members of the Committee on Consumer and Worker Protection for the opportunity to testify today. I am here to speak in support of the passage of Int 0518-2026.

Last mile delivery has become a reality in the city today. Many packages move fast through the hands of large multinationals and their subcontracted vendors to get to a customer as quickly as possible. Little time or attention, however, is paid by the average customer to the workers that do this work. The rules have not kept up in the last mile industry, which means that workers and communities are paying the price in the margins and in substandard safety. For too long, big operators have hidden behind subcontractors. It is a pernicious practice across industries, including here in this sector. No one wants to take responsibility when workers get hurt or streets become dangerous. Low-road companies have to be compelled to do the right thing.

What this bill does is it limits the opportunity for low-road practices that so many workers and communities have raised concerns about. The legislation requires last mile facilities to obtain a license from the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection, to disclose prior violations and to demonstrate that they can operate safely. If operators cannot meet the standards, they should not be operating in New York City. This bill also requires workers performing core delivery and warehouse services to be directly employed by facility operators. Subcontracting these functions is prohibited. When existing contracts expire, operators are required to bring workers on directly with wages and benefits. It is common decency for workers to know who they work for and who is responsible for their safety.

This bill has real enforcement that makes a difference: civil penalties, a private right of action, anti-retaliation protections, and authority for the corporation counsel to seek court-ordered compliance. Too many laws sound good on paper and mean nothing in practice. Crafted by advocates and unions with over a century of industry-adjacent experience, this is a solution that can work for...

Time expired. Please wrap up.

Sure. With 31 sponsors, the public advocate and the Brooklyn borough president behind it, this bill reflects broad agreement that the status quo is not working. The New York City Central Labor Council urges the committee and the full Council to pass Int 0518-2026 without delay. Thank you.

Thank you. We can start with the panel in front of us. You guys can decide who wants to go first.

Good afternoon. My name is Thomas Gizwald and I am president of Teamsters Joint Council 16. We represent 120,000 workers across greater New York. The Teamsters strongly support the Delivery Protection Act. Our members deliver everything that New Yorkers need. We have for over 100 years. The Teamsters organize this industry so workers have rights, so they have the wages and benefits to support their families and so they can do their job safely.

Amazon is upending this industry and causing havoc on our streets. 10,000 Amazon workers across the country have organized with the Teamsters Union because they are not willing to put their safety on the line for a paycheck that does not even cover their bills. Amazon forces workers to drive vans that are not safe for the road. Amazon pushes them to deliver more and more packages faster and faster. Amazon does not give them the training to be able to do their job safely. The chaos is not just unsafe for the workers. Amazon's recklessness is endangering everyone on the road. Amazon does not care. Why? Because Amazon has created subcontractors who shoulder all the liability for accidents and labor law violations. If one of your constituents or one of my members gets hit, Amazon does not have to take any responsibility.

This is an issue not just for the Teamsters at Amazon and other last mile companies. It affects all our members on the road. When these companies drive up accidents and degrade the quality of training and safety for workers, that is a big problem for all our members out there making deliveries. We need licensing of last mile operators. We need an end to shoddy subcontracting schemes. We need independent safety training. We need to ensure that the agency tasked with enforcing this bill, the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection, is properly funded. The City Council cannot wait to act. Please bring the Delivery Protection Act to a vote immediately. Thank you.

Thank you. Next.

Good afternoon. My name is Richard Blum. I am a longtime member of the Association of Legal Advocates and Attorneys, UAW Local 2325. I am testifying today in support of Int 0518-2026 on behalf of the UAW New York City Political Council, representing 20,000 members in New York City across a diverse range of sectors.

In recent years, the UAW has been at the national forefront of militant action and organizing and we have been active in New York City as well. We are acutely aware of the stratagems that large, wealthy and well-resourced businesses and organizations use to defeat worker power. One of those tactics that these businesses use is to act as if they have no special relationship to their own workforce — the very workers whose labor makes these companies wealthy. They use methods of fissuring, as David Weil called it, to disclaim responsibility for their workforce and avoid liability under labor and employment laws.

We have seen this of course in the ride-hail business and the delivery business with the apps, and so too in the last mile delivery industry, where workers are either deemed to be in business for themselves or to be the employees of a company that actually does not have full control over the terms and conditions of employment, including the safety conditions and the pay. These are really dictated by the parent entity, and at the same time they disclaim any responsibility for the workforce — going exactly to the point that you were making repeatedly before.

There is a recent Second Circuit decision involving a baker that had delivery workers forced to incorporate themselves and then said they were not transportation workers anymore because they were in business for themselves. This is the kind of nonsense that we see in a variety of industries but particularly in this area of delivery. These fictions seek to prevent these workers from having the protections of labor and employment law. New York City does not have to tolerate these dangerous abdications of responsibility. And since someone mentioned franchising before, I will just say that David Weil did a study a long time ago that showed that in fast food where there is franchising, there is a far higher level of labor law violations.

Thank you. Go ahead.

Thanks so much. I appreciate the David Weil shout-outs. Thank you, Chairperson Epstein and members of the committee, for the opportunity to speak on Int 0518-2026. My name is Shane Mitchell. I am here representing the New York Hotel and Gaming Trades Council. We represent over 40,000 hotel, club, racetrack and casino workers.

Through our advocacy for the Safe Hotels Act in 2024, we have learned how powerful a tool licensure can be for workplace conditions, consumer protection and NYC resident safety. As has already been discussed, this bill requires last mile facilities to be licensed by DCWP. The mere fact of licensure will bring sunlight to these businesses and some of the issues that they are having, some of which are operating in unsafe and perhaps even illegal conditions. The employment relationships at these facilities can often be confused and unclear. In the interest of time, I am going to skip some of this because we have already covered it. But much like the Safe Hotels Act, this bill seeks to bring clarity to that employment situation by requiring licensees or their single operator to directly employ core employees.

We saw in hotels how subcontracting relationships could lead to massive wage theft, abusive behavior by management, labor trafficking and unsafe working conditions. DCWP oversight is now changing hotel workplaces for the better. Licensed hotels — over 760 of them — are safer, cleaner and less likely to engage in abusive or exploitative employment practices, again because of the sunlight brought by DCWP. This bill would give workers and NYC residents the tools they need to demand higher safety standards from these businesses and would further empower workers to pursue dignity and respect on the job. We would like to commend CM Cabán and every sponsor of the legislation for their diligent work on this issue. We appreciate the attention given to the concerns of working New Yorkers now and always. We urge you to vote yes on Int 0518-2026. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair and members of the committee. My name is Daniel Okampo. Until recently, I was a senior staff attorney at the National Employment Law Project. In that capacity I studied the contracting and subcontracting out of work across the economy, including in the logistics industry, and how it degrades the quality and safety of work. I am here to testify in support of this bill.

I just want to focus on one critical point, which is it is undeniable, as we have heard today, that last mile delivery is creating significant traffic congestion and street safety concerns that the City needs to address. When delivery vans stop in the middle of streets, it can block pedestrian crossings, bike lanes and other traffic, forcing drivers and cyclists to veer out into the middle of streets into oncoming traffic. It of course puts the lives of delivery workers at risk as well.

But the structure of these businesses — and here I will speak specifically about Amazon because that is what I understand best — the subcontracting out to DSPs and to independent contractor flex drivers, that structure has made it incredibly difficult to address these problems from a public policy perspective and for the workers themselves. Because who is it that can actually change this behavior and abate these safety concerns? It is Amazon. It is not the DSPs. Amazon is the entity that is setting the routes, that decides the number of packages that need to be delivered in a given day, the order in which those packages need to be delivered and when they should be delivered by, and communicates it then through an app to the drivers. It then monitors those drivers using GPS tracking and in-van cameras monitoring their every move. It also of course designs and owns the vans and the safety equipment that workers use.

So it is only Amazon and the other parent companies that we have been discussing that can address these concerns, and that is why they need to be held accountable. That is the fundamental public policy purpose of this bill as I see it: to ensure that the only entity that can fix these issues can be held accountable to them, so that we can get a handle on this massive new industry. Thank you.

That was great, right to the second. That was perfect. Can I talk about the worker turnover issue? We have spent a lot of time today talking about it. How do you see us being able to reduce that?

(03:08:08)

kind of turnover? What tools we have in our tool belt? And do you feel like this legislation will advance reducing worker turnover?

(03:08:16)

Yeah, I will answer for you. One thing that throughout the whole hearing, what I am seeing is this bill is about the worker, not about the contractor or subcontractor. Joint Council 16. We have over thousands of employers and I have been doing this for 30 years. I have never once seen a company that has their name on everything, gives direction, hires and gives their daily routines to everybody, where the worker cannot go to them with a problem of wage theft, of overwork, labor law violations, anything. They are in the middle. And the one thing I did not hear today from the other side was that they did not mention the worker once. The worker was never mentioned once about how they are going to protect that worker when you heard all the testimony from Amazon workers of what went on.

Does the subcontractor have the ability to go to Amazon and say, "Whoa, wait a minute. My worker, you overloaded him. You did this. You did that. You have got to stop that." I do not think that ever happened. They are subcontractors, but they are really payroll agents, and that is a great thing. There is nothing wrong with that. But the bottom line is the worker, who we are here for, has no protection. He has nobody to go to. The fingers get pointed in different directions, and that is what this bill is all about in my opinion.

(03:09:47)

Great. I do not know if anyone else wants to comment on that, otherwise I will go to my next question.

(03:09:54)

Just chiming in from the hotel workers perspective. Again, not our industry, so I do not want to overstep my bounds here, but certainly we saw a very common pattern where if there were issues with the workforce, whether they are talking to DCWP, a lawyer, the union or whatever, because you have this intermediary between them, instead of firing the workforce, you can fire the contractor. So you are not violating labor law and retaliating against employees who are seeking their rights. Instead, you are making a business decision for your own bottom line. Maintaining a workforce requires a strong relationship between the employee and the employer and having that intermediary will only drive further turnover. Because you have this intermediary, you have seen this in the hotel industry where the intermediary really forces the turnover, because by their own existence they mean that worker dissatisfaction will result in higher turnover.

(03:10:52)

Right. And if there is a workplace injury or some other incident, the hotel in this situation is not liable and does not have any responsibility because they do not have the employer-employee relationship. We have successfully organized subcontracted hotel workers in the past. I think most famously at the Margaritaville in Midtown, if anybody has been. But yeah, it becomes a real difficult prospect for workers to express their needs and concerns in a fair way with their employer when their employer is not really their employer, so to speak.

(03:11:28)

Yes. It feels like they have two employers. They have the DSP and they have the parent company. So when issues come up, it is hard to distinguish between the two. It sounds like that is what you are saying.

(03:11:38)

Yeah.

(03:11:39)

Right. And how about safety? Besides this, when we talk about workplace safety and anti-retaliation, how does this work where there is this middle entity? How do you see this playing out in this industry or in other industries?

(03:11:59)

Just going back to Dan's points before, if the entity that calls the shots and controls the conditions, has quotas, has time pressure on people, if they are not accountable under the labor law to the workers, then there is no way of addressing those issues meaningfully by going through the entity that does not have that control.

(03:12:24)

And I was going to chime in regarding the safe hotels act. There was a training component particular to human trafficking recognition. Precisely because when there is, again, you need to have that employer-employee relationship to even know what is correct in the workplace. If the parent company does not have that same investment in the day-to-day life of that worker, they are not going to care about injuries or what have you. Workplace safety requires that relationship. That just does not exist in a subcontracted relationship.

(03:12:55)

That is helpful. Thank you. I want to turn to my colleagues. CM Cabán, you are good. Anyone else for this panel? CM Shanel Thomas-Henry. Sorry, I do not know what is going on with my brain today.

(03:13:21)

I am sorry. Go ahead. Ask your questions and welcome, and I apologize.

(03:13:26)

No worries. Thank you, chair. So I just want clarity on the last couple of statements. Are you saying that as a worker for a subcontractor, the employees do not have the same labor protections?

(03:13:39)

We are saying that the entity that actually is responsible for the problem is not answerable under those laws. In other words, take Amazon since we have been talking about Amazon. If Amazon is putting pressure on workers to require things to be done at a pace that causes worker injury or accidents, Amazon, if it is not the employer, is not accountable to those workers for the conditions that created those accidents and those other injuries under the labor law. If it is not the employer, it is only the employer that is responsible. So you can say to the DSP, you know, you should not have caused these problems, but if it is not the DSP that is actually creating the conditions and requirements that cause the problem, you are not getting anywhere with that. That is the problem with subcontracting.

(03:14:34)

But the employees themselves still have the right to those protections. Correct. So you are not eliminating the protections for the employee. It is just harder for them to go ahead.

(03:14:44)

Yeah. I am sorry.

(03:14:45)

No.

(03:14:46)

They have the right to protections vis-à-vis an entity that does not have any control over the situation.

(03:15:00)

I do not see any more comments. I want to thank this panel for being here. Let us bring up the next panel.

(03:15:05)

Alan Abraham on Zoom, Drew Weber, Damon Gilbert, Theodore Moore and Brian.

(03:15:19)

Brian Kalachi.

(03:15:26)

And if Alan is on Zoom, we can just start with you while the panel gets seated.

(03:15:32)

Great. Thank you. Good morning, Chair and members of the Committee on Consumer and Worker Protection. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Alan Abraham and I am the director of organizing and advocacy with the People's Plan. I am here today to support the Council's passage of the Delivery Protection Act and last mile bill and also to support the future enforcement of this bill by advocating for the Make and Pay campaign, which pushes to double the budget of DCWP. First and foremost, this is a public safety bill that will benefit all New Yorkers. Right now, the City is not able to adequately hold Amazon, a multi-billion dollar company, accountable for flagrant labor violations, because they operate on a web of third party contractors working in underpaid, unsafe and unstable conditions. The provisions of this bill, including licensing last mile facilities, requiring direct employment and structuring protections against retaliation, will reduce traffic violence, improve workplace conditions and begin to hold companies accountable, including for millions in unpaid fees. While Amazon is a key example, this bill is ultimately about setting standards for an entire fast-growing industry.

But passing strong laws is only half the equation. They must also be enforced. Right now, New York City is owed at least 1.5 billion in unpaid penalties from large corporations and bad actors. Agencies like DCWP are tasked with enforcing critical worker and consumer protections, but they are under-resourced relative to the scale of violations they face. When enforcement is weak, corporate bad actors treat penalties as optional, just as the cost of doing business. Our streets become less safe due to these violations. Workers lose wages, consumers are exploited and responsible businesses are undercut. That is why we are calling on the Council to invest in DCWP's enforcement capacity, including doubling its budget and adding inspectors. This is about making sure the last mile bill and the Delivery Protection Act actually work in practice. It is about deterrence, fairness and protecting New Yorkers. It is a key part of the broader Make and Pay strategy to ensure corporate law breakers are held accountable across the board. Last mile drivers and workers deserve to be free from unsafe employment practices. Thank you.

(03:17:43)

Thank you. We will go to the panelists in front of us.

(03:17:47)

Good morning, Chair Epstein, CM Cabán and members of the committee. My name is Drew Weber and I am testifying on behalf of the Consortium for Worker Education, or CWE. CWE serves as the workforce development arm of the New York City Central Labor Council, partnering with 33 unions and their respective locals on training, education and child care programs. We are testifying today in strong support of the Delivery Protection Act. Amazon's DSP program has allowed the company to sidestep its obligations to workers, denying them the rights and protections they are entitled to. This bill addresses that directly through the establishment of licensing standards, direct employment requirements and a robust independent training mandate. We are particularly encouraged by the bill's requirement that DCWP designate nonprofit training providers to educate workers on safety and their rights, and that those providers retain ultimate discretion over training content. This is essential for workers to exercise their rights. They must first know what they are. When training is offered only by the employer, there is an inherent misalignment between what the company wants workers to know and what they are entitled to know under the law.

CWE has seen this firsthand. Our program, the Astoria Worker Project, is partnering with organizers from Amazon Labor Union Local 1 to educate their members through a peer-to-peer model on their rights under the Warehouse Worker Protection Act. We are doing this precisely because it is that type of independent, worker-centered education that cannot come from the employer itself. To strengthen this provision, we recommend that the Council add an explicit requirement that designated training organizations have demonstrated experience in know-your-rights education covering worker protections under labor and employment law. The bill's training framework is strong. Adding this requirement would ensure that the organizations trusted to implement it are equipped to meet all the expectations set out under the law. CWE looks forward to supporting the passage and ultimate implementation of this bill. Thank you.

(03:19:41)

All right. Good afternoon. Thank you to the chair and the committee. My name is Theo Moore. I am with Align, the Alliance for Greater New York. Align expresses strong support for the Delivery Protection Act because the rapid expansion of last mile delivery has created an urgent public safety, worker protection and environmental crisis across the five boroughs. The Delivery Protection Act is a necessary step towards restoring accountability and protecting New Yorkers. While this legislation applies to all last mile operators, it is impossible to discuss this industry without addressing Amazon's outsized role. As an industry leader, Amazon has fundamentally reshaped consumer expectations around delivery speed, driving the entire sector toward increasingly dangerous and unsustainable practices.

Central to Amazon's role is its delivery service partner program. This structure allows Amazon to shift risk and responsibility away from the wealthiest corporation in the world onto small contractors and individual workers. Under this system, drivers are pushed to meet extreme quotas without adequate protections while Amazon maintains control over routes, performance standards and delivery timelines. This arrangement does not represent genuine small business empowerment. Rather, it represents the outsourcing of risk and liability. Exemplifying this contradiction, Amazon recently held a contest offering thousand-dollar prizes to DSP drivers — those very people Amazon claims are another business's employees — to say they love their job at Amazon. The ills of the current system listed here are based on well-documented fact. Reports from the New York City Controller and federal investigations have highlighted the links between rapid delivery demands, unsafe working conditions and increased traffic violence. These findings make clear that without intervention, the situation will continue to worsen. Thank you.

(03:21:46)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(03:21:51)

Good afternoon. Thank you, committee members, for the opportunity to testify. My name is Damon Gilbert and I am with New York Lawyers for the Public Interest. I am here in strong support of the Delivery Protection Act. The expansion of last mile delivery facilities across New York City has created a system where the harms of our modern convenience economy are disproportionately borne by the same communities that have long faced environmental burdens and disinvestment. As e-commerce has grown, so too has the infrastructure needed to sustain it, resulting in millions of daily package deliveries, thousands of additional truck trips and the proliferation of last mile warehouses embedded within dense residential neighborhoods.

According to the recent Controller report, these facilities are overwhelmingly concentrated in environmental justice communities where residents are already exposed to higher levels of air pollution and industrial activity, which causes higher rates of respiratory disease and other serious health issues. The result is a compounding of harm: more truck traffic, worse air quality and heightened safety risks layered onto communities that can least afford it. These harms are a direct consequence of an industry model that prioritizes profit margins over safety, health and accountability. For too long, this industry has expanded without meaningful oversight, leaving workers and their communities to absorb the consequences. This bill would begin to close the gap by tying the right to operate to basic standards of safety and accountability and shifting responsibility back to where it belongs, onto the parent companies that profit most from this system. For these reasons, we ask that you vote yes to pass the Delivery Protection Act. Thank you.

(03:23:26)

Go ahead.

(03:23:28)

All right. Good morning. My name is Brian Kachi. I am the chief economist at the Open Markets Institute. We are an economic policy think tank based in Washington DC, although I live here. What I do for a living is research workplace fissuring. I have heard David Weil mentioned a couple of times, and what I call control-without-responsibility business models. I just wrote a book on franchising. We have heard about some of the similarities between this industry and that.

Among the most dramatic changes anyone with eyes can see on New York City streets in the past decade has been the arrival of a constant parade of delivery vehicles. They can be seen circling blocks throughout the City, often the same block multiple times in the same day, stopping only for drivers to emerge sprinting up front steps to drop off packages. By 2024, the number of packages delivered per day had reached 2.5 million, which is way up from the 1.1 million in 2017. According to the Controller's report, the congestion and air quality problems, particularly in communities designated as environmental justice priority areas, have gotten worse.

The problem here is that it can be extra challenging to hold last mile delivery companies accountable for safety problems because of the way that Amazon in particular, though not alone, has structured its delivery network. In terms of economic realities, Amazon operates a single integrated delivery network. The drivers wear Amazon uniforms. They drive trucks and vans emblazoned with the Amazon logo and they follow precise routes and schedules prescribed and enforced by intense digital surveillance by Amazon. And yet despite all this, Amazon disclaims any responsibility as the employer of these workers under liability or labor laws. The paychecks for these workers technically come from nominally independent delivery service partners operating under the tight control of Amazon. I think the idea that these are independent businesses in any meaningful sense is a bit of a farce. By using DSPs instead of its own drivers, Amazon has managed to avoid all of these laws. What this legislation would do is bring back accountability to the business model.

(03:25:39)

Thank you all. So can we talk about franchises? This seems like it is similar, as you are claiming, to a franchise model. I want to hear more about some of the downsides here. We will hear soon from some of the DSPs. What do you think the overall concern is around that franchise model as it relates to worker safety and traffic issues?

(03:26:02)

So I think the issue is that, as other people have said before, the entity that is in control of the conduct — whether Amazon — is very hard. They cannot be held accountable. They will disclaim liability under vicarious liability doctrines, things like that. Workers are not able to access the company that is in control of their working conditions, that is in control of their discipline, that is in control of the pace of work. All that stuff is not under the discretion of the DSP to fix. That has to come from Amazon.

(03:26:40)

I want to turn to my colleagues to see if anyone has questions for this panel. All right. Thank you all for being here and testifying. Really appreciate it. Next panel: Andrew Setlight, Rudy Cesarez, Dwayne Ronin and Joe Artus.

(03:27:17)

And if you guys are settled in, one of you can start. We have two other people joining.

(03:27:27)

Go ahead.

(03:27:33)

Good morning. My name is Rudy.

(03:27:35)

Turn the mic on.

(03:27:40)

My name is Rudy Kazeres. I am a Marine Corps veteran, a New York City small business owner, and I am here in opposition to Int 0518-2026 because of its impact on jobs, small businesses and our community. I was raised in Elmhurst, Queens by immigrant parents from Mexico. After serving 15 years in the Marine Corps, including three combat tours in Iraq, I came home and built my business in the communities I grew up in. Today I operate Kazar Logistics, an Amazon delivery service partner, and Joint Ops Logistics, a FedEx independent service provider. Since 2020, our team has delivered over 20 million packages across New York City, helping keep this city running during COVID and beyond. Through Kazar Logistics, we have also made a weekly commitment since July of 2023 through a public-private partnership with the New York City Department of Veteran Services, HelloFresh, the Campaign Against Hunger and Amazon, delivering over 140,000 meals to military families, veterans and community members at no cost to this city. We employ over 100 New Yorkers and have hired over 500 through Workforce One. Those are facts.

I have heard statements suggesting protections like guaranteed rehire between small business owners and parent companies. But any bill is only as good as its execution. There is no guarantee that workers displaced from one company will be absorbed by another. I came here today to give testimony, but what I am witnessing is alarming. I do not know about anyone being forced to be here, but I do know there are hundreds of small business owners and drivers who volunteered to show up, and many of them are being kept outside at the gates of City Hall today. I will finish by saying: when small businesses like mine are pushed out, the workers we employ do not win. They lose their jobs. That is a fact. I urge this Council to consider the real impact on jobs and communities before moving forward. Thank you.

(03:30:12)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(03:30:15)

Good afternoon. My name is Andrew Setlight. I own and operate a small package delivery business serving New York City. What started as a business has become something much more personal to me, because behind every package delivered is a real person. My company employs...

(03:30:34)

Around 180 people. And our delivery associates come to work every day to support their families, pay rent, pursue educations, and build a future. We have associates who started with no experience and are now leading teams, training others, and growing into management roles. This is not just package delivery. This is economic opportunity. As a business owner, I carry that responsibility fully. I am responsible for hiring, payroll, compliance, safety, and making sure every delivery associate gets home safely. Their well-being is not theoretical. It is on me every single day. We have built systems around safety, accountability, compliance, and growth because we care about our people and our community. This business is also how I support my family. It provides for my household, my three children, and our future. Like many small business owners, everything I have built is tied to this. It is not just what I do, it is how we live.

And that responsibility extends beyond my home. I am responsible for every driver we employ, their pay, their safety, their benefits, and making sure they have consistent hours to earn a living. Many of them are supporting families of their own. For some, this is their first real step towards stability. For others, it is a path to grow into leadership and build a career. We have worked hard to build something that creates real opportunity while maintaining strong safety standards and accountability across our operations. This is why this bill is so concerning. If this bill passes as it is written, it will put stability at risk, not just for the business, but for every family that depends on it. The people this bill is trying to protect will be the first to feel the impact, and the community will feel it through higher delivery costs, slower service, and less efficient operations across the City. We all agree on the goal of protecting our delivery associates. They are the backbone of our operations, but we have to do it in a way that keeps opportunities alive, not one that unintentionally takes them away. At the end of the day, this is not just about policy. It is about families. The families of every delivery associate who depends on this work. We must make sure we do not create policies that ultimately cost them their jobs. Thank you.

Thank you. Go ahead.

All right. My name is Joe Artistis and, much like Andrew and Ryan here, I am an owner of a delivery company operating in and out of New York City. I started my business in 2020, named after my father, a Guatemalan immigrant who worked for the MTA for 38 years and who passed away of lung cancer in 2016. I am the youngest of seven children, and everything I have built is rooted in the work ethic and stability that he gave our family. Today, I am trying to create that same opportunity for others. We actively hire through shelters, nonprofits, and workforce development programs such as Strive, Innerbrough, Urban Upbound, and Henry Street Settlement. These are organizations that focus on placing people who need work the most. These are individuals rebuilding their lives, supporting families, and getting a real opportunity through this work. At the same time, we have built an operating model that reduces congestion in New York City, with walking delivery associates completing routes in neighborhoods like Harlem.

If this bill is applied broadly, the impact is real. Smaller operations like mine are going to struggle to comply and will probably be pushed out. Opportunities for the exact workers these programs serve will shrink, and the system will shift towards larger, less flexible operations. I fully support safe conditions and smart regulation, but we need clear definitions and thoughtful implementation so that the policies do not inadvertently harm small businesses and limit access to jobs for the people who need them the most. I respectfully ask that the Council ensure that this bill does not unintentionally close doors for the very people we are trying to create opportunities for. Thank you for your time.

Thank you all. And so just a little more about your business so I understand. Do you own, operate, or lease a warehouse?

We do not.

You own a space?

We do not operate our warehouses. We own our own company that directly employs our people.

Great. And then do you work with multiple companies who bring items to your warehouse?

No. The entity that I own serving New York City directly contracts with Amazon.

Other companies as well?

We do operate FedEx contractors in upstate New York as well.

But in New York City, just Amazon.

That is correct.

And you said how many employees do you have?

180.

And full-time versus part-time?

Full-time.

All full-time. Great. And they are hourly, or they are...

The delivery associates are hourly. That is correct. But we have multiple people who came up through the ranks, starting as hourly employees and becoming managers and directors.

And what borough do you service?

New York City.

All five boroughs?

I do Midtown East from 16th Street all the way to 68th Street, from Third Avenue to FDR Drive.

From 16th Street to 68th Street, from FDR Drive to Third Avenue.

FDR Drive to Third Avenue. A lot of my district. So thank you. And then so they are all full-time. Is there an average delivery amount that each delivery service person is delivering a day?

It is not a set amount. Every route is different.

Every route is different. Yeah.

Is there an average?

It is about 150.

1. And that is over an 8-hour shift?

Not necessarily. Again, every route is different. We deliver to a building that has a thousand apartments. That takes...

Just one. They could take 150 in that one building, right? And so are they in trucks, are they on bikes, are they on foot?

I operate the DeWalker program, which means we deliver on foot.

So only on foot.

Yes.

So how do they get the items from your warehouse to the building with 150 units?

So the way it works in our program is we have trucks dispatch from the fulfillment center — distribution center, rather — to a specific area in New York City. And there are our walkers. We call them walkers, delivery associates. They will meet the trucks and we disperse the packages at the truck through different anchor points.

So, just so I am clear — someone drops off a truck... so someone drops off items from a truck.

It is our employees. Our drivers.

So the items coming from a company — those are your drivers too? Or is this...

So our drivers go to the stations and they collect the packages from the stations.

But who brings the items to the station?

That is not us. That is Amazon.

So Amazon is dropping things at your station.

Right.

And their staff is unloading it?

Their staff.

Their staff is unloading it into your facility?

Their facility that we operate out of. We do not have a facility.

Because you do not own a facility.

We do not.

They own it and they lease it.

We do not lease it either.

They own it. They manage it.

Correct.

And the trucks that are then driving in the neighborhood — are those your trucks or Amazon trucks?

We have multiple. We have rentals leased through a third-party company and we also have leases through Amazon.

And where do those trucks stay? Do you have a facility for those trucks?

They are parked in the Amazon warehouse.

They are parked in an Amazon warehouse. Okay. So there are Amazon trucks going to an Amazon facility. Amazon people put them into the facility. Your people take them out of the facility and put them in your truck, and your people then bring them to another location where walkers are walking around with them.

That is correct.

Great. I understand that system. And these people are all full-time.

That is correct.

Great. And can we hear — is your business similar to his?

Yes. I am very similar to his. To further clarify, the Amazon station will sort the packages and assign them to us. My company services all of Harlem from 110th to 140th, river to river. And just to emphasize one thing — I can speak for him — we have never laid off a single employee ever.

That is great.

We have full-time everyone. We have flexible hiring, flexible shifts, weekly pay, and all benefits — healthcare, dental, vision — are all available.

And yours are all walkers as well?

Absolutely.

So exactly the same model...

Just a different location.

Different location. And just the same thing — you do not own the facility. It is all exactly the same.

Correct.

Great. And can we hear about your business? Is it the same as theirs?

It is very similar. We operate out of an Amazon warehouse, and then my other company operates out of a FedEx warehouse. Drivers are all hourly employees, W2 employees, with medical benefits, 401k, employer match and PTO. All pretty much the same.

And they are all full-time?

For the most part, they are all full-time.

So "for the most part" is not all. So you have some part-timers?

Yes, I do.

And so you have one that is Amazon and one that is a different company.

FedEx. And for both the FedEx and the Amazon, it is their facility that your people are operating out of.

And you have walkers as well?

I do not have walkers.

So how do people then take those packages that are being dropped off by an Amazon truck, by Amazon staff, into an Amazon facility?

We use cargo vans, vehicles and step vans to make our deliveries.

And those are your vehicles or not your vehicles?

They are either financed by my company, leased by my company, or rented by my company.

So you own some that you are financing.

Right.

You rent some. Who are you renting them from?

All the different companies that are out there.

So are you renting them from FedEx, or are you renting them from someone else?

No, I will buy them through a dealership, finance them through a financing company. I am renting vehicles from Ryder, Merchant Fleet, Budget — all third-party companies. There are some companies like Wheels, Lease Plan, and Element that we rent our branded vehicles from.

And you say branded — what are they branded with?

Amazon logos.

So the vehicles that you own, lease, or rent all have Amazon logos on them?

Some of them do, some of them do not. I would say about 50% of my fleet.

And the 50% that are not branded — do they go to walkers or do they just deliver around the neighborhood?

I deliver through the use of vehicles. My drivers are the ones making those deliveries.

So those are in small vehicles or in larger...

Cargo vans. We have electric vehicles, customized delivery vehicles and step vans.

And who maintains those vehicles? Do you do that or does another company do that?

Me and my team.

Your team. So you do not hire an outside company to maintain them?

We can. We have a list of mechanics that we utilize. Depending on the capacity, depending on the urgency, depending on the situation, it could be an auto body shop, it could be a mechanic. Depending on if it is an electric vehicle, we will use Rivian-certified mechanics. We have fleet managers on staff. There are some things we may do ourselves, like changing out a light bulb. But we have a preventative maintenance plan and a reactive plan to handle any kind of breakdowns.

And so the ones that are branded with Amazon — those are leased?

Those are leased.

And who are you leasing them from?

Either a company called Element, Lease Plan, or Wheels.

And the ones that are electric — how are those charged? Do you have a facility where they are charged, or is that within...

The Amazon facility provides charging stations for us, and that is how we charge those vehicles.

And who services that charging infrastructure — your staff or Amazon staff?

That would probably be handled by the facility.

And by the facility you mean Amazon or a third party?

It would probably be Amazon.

So Amazon is dealing with the charging, they are dealing with the vehicles, but you are taking the packages out with your team and then delivering them all over the City.

Correct.

And what part of the City do you deliver in?

Currently in the Bronx, we are operating from New Rochelle down to Co-op City, all the way west to Yonkers.

And I am sorry I am taking so much time from my colleagues, but you said how many people are you hiring a year? What does turnover look like?

I think you asked that question before and we are going to get you a specific answer on what that turnover is.

Yeah, I think on Zoom I asked you that question.

Right. Exactly. And so when we are dealing with a pilot program, if we deal with private, those are growth models.

Sure.

Rather than part-time situations where the expectation is that individuals are doing it either before another job or after — maybe they have other requirements.

Yeah. Someone could be going to school and working at night.

Could be working on the weekend.

Yeah. Exactly. We have all done that.

The flexibility of a 4-day work week allows for that, which is another benefit of being able to work with us.

So you have a 4-day work week with longer hours, just four days a week.

Sure. 10 hours a day.

10 hours a day, four days a week.

Right. Which is preferred by most drivers, by the way.

Great. And just on turnover — I do not know for either of you — you said you have been operating for a few years. What kind of consistency do you have with staffing? What kind of hiring are you doing every year?

So as far as our staffing, since we have never laid off anyone ever, we are always constantly hiring and we are helping people move forward in their careers, whether it be through taking other job opportunities or pursuing continued education. They can do all of that. We give them all the options and flexibility. And as far as the part-time question, our minimum part-time offerings are usually at the request of the employee. I have employees I can speak to who had to drop down to part-time due to shelter restrictions that do not let them earn enough money — they are required to make fewer hours. We are flexible with those situations as well. So we have various ways to support them and get them work.

Yeah. So if someone wants to work full-time, they can work full-time. You are hiring regularly because you just have regular turnover.

Mm-hm.

Great. And is your facility any different?

No, it is the same thing.

Same thing. Great. All right. I want to turn to my colleagues to see if folks have questions. Yes, CM Thomas-Henry.

Thank you. So my questions are across the panel. Since all of you contract through Amazon, what does training look like? So you hire someone — what is the length of time that they are trained? Is there ongoing training throughout their employment? What does training for your workers look like?

Yeah, it actually starts during the recruiting process. We want to find the most qualified individuals to put behind the wheel of a vehicle. That is the responsible thing to do. So there is a certain number of years of licensure that they are required to have, cargo van driving experience if they are going to be in a cargo van, and DOT driving experience if they are going to be in a DOT step van. We do not just take random people off the street and put them behind the wheel of a vehicle. We put them through the recruiting process and the onboarding process, where we introduce them to our culture and our core values. They will go through about two days of training with an Amazon trainer that includes a road test, and then on day one they will be with an experienced driver, riding around with half of a route for the first several weeks as we build them up and get them acclimated to the areas where they operate, used to the vehicle, and used to the package volume we are assigning to them.

And then, for whatever reason, if they fall short of expectations, our managers are coaches. They are the individuals who coach to specific metrics that we are looking for them to improve. For example, if it is a service quality issue — if a package does not get to the customer — we look into what those reasons are. If it is safety, we utilize AI cameras in our vehicles to keep our drivers from becoming complacent, because it is very easy to do that when you are behind the wheel for 10 hours a day. So we help coach them by showing them opportunities to improve. If they are rolling a stop sign, if their following distance is too close, if they are waiting for a text message or distracted by their cell phone — that is how we utilize the technology to benefit not only the company and the driver but also our community.

So for our hiring and training process, part of what we do right away is once they finish onboarding with us, they do classroom training first. After the classroom training, I personally contact every single employee. I have every employee's phone number I have ever hired in my phone. I have a conversation with them. We go over scheduling. And part of that is I tell them the same thing: while I own this company, I treat it like I work for them, and closed mouths do not get fed. What does that mean? It means that they are going to do training with our team too. So the first day they will shadow one of our trainers. Then the second day they come back and the trainer will shadow them. And we tell them that closed mouths do not get fed — if you need more training, you let us know and you can get as much training as you need until you are comfortable delivering packages. And that is our process.

Yours?

Pretty much the same. For every new employee, they go through about four or five days of training, but everyone learns differently. Some people have to go through two weeks of training. But the main approach that we take is we assign a team lead to that specific new employee to observe their performance and how they do things, to walk them through what we do and how we do things. And then we do evaluations after 30 days, 60 days and 90 days. But the training is ongoing. It never stops.

So it sounds like the training is different for all three entities.

Yes.

So there is no standard training process, especially if you are specifically delivering for Amazon, to follow for all these drivers so it is consistent?

Well, I think their model is a little different because it has walkers. But for my trainers themselves, we have DOT-certified trainers — third parties who go through a certification course to become train-the-trainers — and we utilize those individuals to improve the driving safety portion of the training specifically, because they are driving vehicles.

But in this instance where Amazon is the corporate partner, they do not mandate a specific training? You independently, as independent owners, do your own training?

They are required to go through the initial training — the couple of days with an Amazon trainer.

Okay.

And then Amazon also assists us by providing lighter routes throughout the first several weeks of the individual being employed.

Okay. For the two entities that do both FedEx and Amazon, do you see a difference in terms of volume of packages or any best practices between the two?

I think the two models, although they are similar, are completely different in the sense that — especially the model — I deliver the Amazon contract in Manhattan while for FedEx we deliver in upstate New York. So it is a completely different model.

In the City we have to deal with density. We have to deal with doorman buildings. Although a lot of times we are called last-mile delivery, we are not in those types of buildings, right? Because those...

(03:51:13)

Buildings have their own mail room and processes that they have to go through. On the FedEx side in upstate New York, we are similar to what Rudy has in the van model. It is one van per route and those drivers decide — we decide on the routing the night before on how to maximize productivity. At the end of the day, everyone is held to a standard of performance. How we decide that performance is how we build our business.

Just to piggyback on the differences — no area in Manhattan, as you all know, every three blocks it is like a whole different world. So for him being in Midtown economy and me being in Harlem, there is a very unique set of challenges in both. Where he may have freight elevators, we have large New York City housing complexes. So the training also has to be tailored to the territories. There is no one-size-fits-all with this type of training. While there is a general classroom training for all the employees that Amazon has us do, they just learn standard work on what the expectations are. The ones out there teaching — and if this Bill were to go through, that would all disappear if it was one general training.

Exactly. There is not a one-size-fits-all. I think people get fixated on the number of packages that are in a vehicle. I will give you one example. We used to deliver to St. John's University. We used to cram 400 packages in one cargo van. That driver was done within two hours versus delivering maybe 100 packages, but you are going up and down flights of staircases in Co-op City.

It is not a one-size-fits-all. What is important is to understand that it is not just the Amazon and FedEx standards that we are looking to meet, but it is the customer demands that we are looking to meet while being safe on the road. That is the most important thing that I think maybe is lost here — understanding that as a small business owner, I have a vested interest not to go out of business, not to see my people get hurt, not to see my insurance rates rocket. So it is a balancing act every single day. I think it is very important to understand that we are there to try to get the job done and be safe at the same time.

Do you see any best practices between FedEx and Amazon? You do both in the City, correct?

Those best practices come from me and my team.

Okay. We are the ones that are out there learning, understanding the areas where we can park, where we cannot park, the houses that have dogs in them — the challenges we deal with. Taking a big package up a flight of stairs in a four-story walk-up — these best practices come from the field, from our team members. We are able to capture that information and then implement changes. Can you imagine the bureaucratic structure that would exist to try to incorporate big corporations in that? That is the reason why we exist.

Do you see a difference in the quota in terms of just the stress on the workers — those who are delivering Amazon packages versus those who are delivering FedEx packages?

I think the stress level is still the same. We understand we need to meet the customer promise of delivering those packages, but it is understanding that we are going to commit, and we have committed, to doing it safely.

One more question. As it relates to the vehicles that you lease — those vehicles, be it Ryder, Amazon branded, etc. — where are they parked?

In both my businesses, they are either parked at an Amazon station or a FedEx station. Do either of those help you maintain those, or do you have to take those out to independent auto bodies yourself to get them maintained?

100%. We are responsible for preventative maintenance and any kind of repairs that exist.

Is there a checklist every day before? We have heard from drivers that some of the vehicles may have a missing tail light or mirror. Is there a checklist that your drivers have to go through every day to make sure that those vehicles are in safe and operating condition?

It starts and ends with a pre and post-trip inspection. That is a driver responsibility. It is in the job description. Anything beyond that gets escalated to a manager to make a decision. I think every contractor that is out there operating in the last mile delivery space understands the need for spare vehicles. It is keeping those spare vehicles on hand to issue them out whenever a vehicle gets identified for damages.

That is CM Banks. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. Just as far as the vehicles — how many vehicles do you own?

Myself, probably... I am talking about the company.

The company itself probably owns 11 vehicles and the rest are all rented.

The rentals were probably in the 30s.

Okay. And the leases were probably in the 40s or 50s.

And to go back to the benefits — I would love to get on the record from each of you. What are the benefits that you offer your employees?

So we offer medical, dental, 401k with an employer match depending on the contribution. We offer PTO and we also offer the four-day work week. Very similar — dental, vision, healthcare, 401k, tuition reimbursement we offer. We also have incentives. If we finish our days, they are guaranteed hours. Even if the job is low and we finish early, they still get guaranteed hours daily. Same as what he says. We also added incentives for high performers. If they perform at the highest level then they get certain additional bonuses that we do on a weekly basis.

If this Bill is passed in its current form, what will happen to your business and to the employees that you hire?

I think the notion that Amazon will absorb every employee from all DSPs is false. If you ask a lot of my employees, not many of them would want to work for Amazon. So what would happen to them? Out of 180 employees, after talking and having conversations with them, I would assume not even 20 people would want to work for Amazon.

Got you. Okay.

I would just say as far as current employment, I cannot vouch for how you can force anyone to hire anyone. But what I can say is that all my future employees that I work with — all these workforce companies, the people that need it the most — they would not stand a chance finding work this way without people like me to go there and help them.

I think it was made clear that this would decimate every small business out there that is in the last mile delivery space. That has been made clear today. But in terms of what would happen, the level of uncertainty that exists right now around this space is what is going to kill jobs. Individuals that would have wanted to come work for me are now probably going to think twice because of this Bill and because of the level of uncertainty that is going to exist over the next 12 months. There is no way that there is any kind of guarantee that these drivers will be hired by Amazon or by FedEx.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, CM Aldebol.

Hi. Nice to see you again. So part of the benefit of the DSP model, according to the parent companies, is for small local businesses run by community members and the growth of these small businesses. However, independent reports have indicated that DSP owners are not directly in control of their businesses or employees — that in fact these parent companies have direct control over the policies and how workers are hired, disciplined and fired. The other thing is there does not seem to be, across your industry, standardized safety criteria across all of the small businesses. Amazon has access to surveillance, can set routes and again dictate policy. As a small business owner in this DSP industry, does Amazon set safety protocols that you have to follow as an employer?

I would say that what they have done is a game-changer in a positive way. To introduce AI-driven cameras in our vehicles — that is not big brother watching. That is big mama, right? You would not do something in front of your mama that you should not be doing at all. That is the point of what we are trying to do here. We are trying to make things better and safer. Not only are we meeting those expectations, but most companies that are here today or outside today are exceeding those expectations because that is what the communities asked for and that is what we are delivering on. Maybe there is not a one-size-fits-all, which is kind of part of what we do as small business owners, but as a small business owner you are going to be smart and you are going to learn from the person to your left and to your right on how you can do better and continue to improve safety within your organization, management of your fleet, and continue to build on the culture of your team. This is not an absentee owner model. This is an owner-operator model. You have to be very involved and engaged with your business to be able to survive, and that is just fact.

So tell me a little bit more about the benefits. You said that your employees are eligible for 401ks which they have to pay into and you would match, and the same with healthcare — workers have to pay for a portion of their healthcare. What are the average wages and how realistic is...

Can I ask the witnesses to verbalize instead of nodding their heads? That would be helpful.

How realistic is it for workers who earn... what is the average wage that folks are earning in your...

I would say you could ask any New Yorker that question. Healthcare rates are just ridiculous. That is a problem. That is not an industry problem. That is a New York State problem. There is more that we can do to improve that. My rates go anywhere from $20, $23.75, $24.75, and some of my other drivers are in the $27 range. During peak season, some of them are above the $30 range. Even at $35, try to find an individual that can afford a good healthcare plan. I agree it is a problem, but small business employers are not going to be the ones to fix that. I think that is a bigger problem that we need to talk about. How do we leverage the State of New York to help us out with that?

I think it is a parent company problem. To make healthcare accessible to employees — and 401ks as well — if you have to pay into it and wait for matching, that is also an issue when you have people earning $18, $20 an hour, or even $25 an hour. People have to pay rent, put food on the table and make decisions about whether they get healthcare or pay their rent. It is a concern that you have a billion-dollar company that is not responsible for ensuring that people have access to healthcare, pensions, or even paying into a 401k. If those workers want to add additional contributions they can do so, but it is not fair to ask workers to pay for their benefits, which is essentially what you are saying is happening. Am I correct in that?

I think we can agree to disagree.

Okay. I think that is my last question. Just Rudy — on the e-bikes, you said there was training. Do you require a license for an e-bike?

You do not require a license to drive an e-bike, which...

But you do not either.

We prefer they have a driver's license. This way a biker cannot use the excuse of running a red light by saying they did not know that because they have not taken a driver's license test. Our team has assisted DOT in building out a safety guideline for e-bikers because we believe in it.

So just to confirm — you do not require an e-bike person to have a license?

I do not require it.

Okay, great. Just wanted to make sure about that. You mentioned AI. It would be interesting to know — is someone monitoring the cameras that are in the vehicles? How is that being used? You said it is used for training purposes. That is what I heard you say.

I wish we could monitor it every hour that we are on the road. Obviously we cannot with the amount of vehicles we have on the road. We use the AI technology that is built into the camera to send out notifications to myself and the management team when there is a violation. It comes with a video.

So it goes to your phone through an app or something like that?

It goes through a phone, goes through a portal, goes through email.

Thank you.

We are getting some right now around City Hall, but hopefully not.

So when people are getting their routes, are those routes set for people? How does that structure work?

For us, since we are in the walker model, we have designated locations for our trucks to park based on the volume of packages we have. We try to find the most efficient way possible so that the walking delivery associates have a delivery area that is closer to where the truck is.

But you control that?

Yes, we control that.

And then do they log into an app to follow that? The walkers?

Correct. There is software that they log into that allows them to scan and deliver packages.

And these are apps where you control the credentials to get in. Is this an app that is under your control or someone else's control?

It is an Amazon-provided flex app for delivery software. They provide it because it allows the scanning technology that will scan the packages themselves.

So Amazon has an app that your workers log into — and Amazon controls the credentials to get in, or you do?

We control the credentials. They call it rostering. We add the employee on to work on those days and then they sign in and deliver.

And the only people who can take someone out is you, or can Amazon do the same thing?

I am sorry, I do not understand the question.

If it is an Amazon app but you control the credentials, does that mean only you can control who has access to it, or does Amazon have that power too?

They have no ability to roster or unroster employees. We add them on ourselves so they can work on the day.

Great. And is it the same for you?

That is correct.

Great. And the same for you?

Within my FedEx business, I have the ability to build my own routes. With Amazon, we rely on their technology. To be honest, the amount of work that goes into building these routes on a day-to-day basis without capturing information from the driver makes it very difficult to have efficiencies while on the road without using technology. So you are doing it remotely and setting it up for the people to put into the app. You will decide where the route is and figure out based on the speed of travel where someone can go from point A to point B — how do you decide?

I wish there was that much science into it. It really just comes from experience when you are building your routes. This is for my FedEx ISP business. When it comes to the Amazon DSP business, we rely on the routes that are being built for us based on the amount of experience that has been gathered in making those deliveries possible in those given areas.

So is it based on the driver or based on prior experience?

Based on every single driver that has been in that area for the previous however many weeks. So if someone has been driving and dropping off 150 packages in that area for those three blocks over the last four months, we are going to assume the next driver can do the same and drop off the same 150 tomorrow because we have been doing that for whatever period.

I am not an engineer, but the science behind it makes it possible to understand some of the logic that goes into it. Is it perfect? Absolutely not.

Do you get this app for free from Amazon? They give you access to it — you do not have to purchase this app?

Correct.

But you are required to use it though, right?

Yes.

And what is in the app? Can anyone besides you remove a stop? If a driver says there is some condition, how do they take a building off the route or manage that on site?

There are a couple of ways. We have what is called rescues, where employees can help each other out if someone is struggling, so no one is left behind. Especially with the walker model — in the service area I service, we have what is called buddies, where people work together because of the challenges and the density in Harlem, and we make sure that they can help one another. That is one way of doing it. The second way, we have self-hired dispatchers that work with them and troubleshoot with them. If those fail, we also have the ability to work with a support network from Amazon to give suggestions on how to work around it based on technology.

Okay, good. Any colleagues? Okay. Thank you all very much. I appreciate your testimony.

Thank you.

I just wanted to also very briefly say thank you for bringing your testimony today.

Thank you.

I want to get to the next panel, which is Kristoff, Baz, Maggie, Mark Chisano, Joan Martinez and Bashier. Sorry if I made a mistake on those names.

There is no one outside.

I just want to remind people — I know the last panel mentioned that there are people still waiting. We have been letting people in throughout the day. There is no one waiting outside. If you know someone who wants to get into the hearing, it is a public hearing. We do have fire code and capacity issues, but upstairs is now fully empty. So if you do know people who want to come in, encourage them to. If you have not signed up yet to testify, we do have 16 panels left. Please encourage people to sign up. All right, go ahead. Let us get started. Mark, do you want to go first? Keep it down — I want to be able to hear the next panel. Go ahead.

Good afternoon, Chair and members of the Council. My name is Mark Chisano and I appreciate the opportunity to testify today opposing Int 0518-2026. The growth of delivery in New York City raises real questions around worker protections, sustainability, and how we manage our streets, and this dialogue is very necessary.

I have personally worked in the logistics industry for over 40 years, including helping launch one of the first and earliest last mile delivery operations of its kind. What I have seen firsthand is that increasing the amount of deliveries to the community members of New York City does not have to mean more vehicles and emissions on our streets. In fact, it can mean far fewer trucks and reduced emissions.

In upper Manhattan, our operation in Washington Heights supports about 100 employees on a daily basis, serving neighborhoods, hospitals and businesses from 125th Street to 220th Street. While freight enters the City by truck, the final mile is completed almost entirely by foot couriers. This approach reduces congestion, cuts emissions, and is designed specifically for dense urban communities. We have also helped pilot blue highways initiatives using the New York waterways to move goods instead of relying solely on the roads.

I take pride in being an active member of the New York City DOT freight advisory committee, New York Vision Zero, the Urban Freight Lab, and numerous other industry and community associations and charities. Just as important, this model creates real career pathways. Nearly every one of our dispatchers, supervisors and managers started out as couriers. We are not just moving goods more sustainably. We are building opportunity within the communities we serve. I support safer streets. Can I continue, Chair?

(04:13:46)

Can I continue? Thank you. I support safer streets, stronger worker protection and sustainability. But this bill is not the way to get there. Int 0518-2026 will eliminate small businesses like mine, cost local jobs, and make it harder to invest in the very solutions that are reducing congestion. I urge the Council to reconsider this legislation and work with the stakeholders on solutions that protect workers without eliminating small business and local jobs that we have worked so tirelessly to create. I also urge the Council to please take a look at the copy of the New York State Department of Labor guidelines for determining worker status for the courier industry. It clearly states on page 10 of the guidelines that within the messenger industry, it is a standard practice that bike and foot messengers are considered to be employees of the

(04:14:39)

I will give you more time if you can just quickly wrap it up. I know we have a lot of other people. I highly urge you to look at the guidelines that I have left a copy of. There are more than 60,000 improperly classified bikers in New York City being deemed to be independent contractors when they should be employees like what we employ in our businesses here. Thank you. And just to remind people, I know we have a bunch of panels left. We may get kicked out of here between 3:30 and 4 and have to go across the street. So if people can try to keep to their two minutes, I want to not make us all get up and try to keep going. There is an event here in the chamber tonight.

(04:15:17)

Good afternoon. Thank you very much for allowing us the opportunity to testify today. My name is Bashar Yazgi and I am here in opposition to this bill. I am a first generation American raised by a Palestinian family. My parents came to this country 36 years ago with nothing, not even a dollar, chasing the American dream. I grew up watching them struggle, making ends meet. That struggle built me into who I am today. Three years ago, I started my company, Logistics Express, and today we employ 150 people. I am not just the owner. I know my team very well. We hire people from all backgrounds, including people who faced real challenges and just need an opportunity to get back on their feet. I have seen employees go from living in shelters to having their own apartments, their own cars, and continuing their education through our tuition reimbursement. We offer real opportunities: health, vision, dental, 401k, and that is because we care.

I want to address a few things directly. First, the idea that our employees are not safe. That is simply not true. For my company, we run approximately 45 routes a day. Over the past two years, we have had an injury rate of roughly 0.2% with less than 0.006% of time away from work. That is because safety is our culture. Second, the claim around wage theft that I have heard a lot. We use audited payroll systems. Every hour is tracked, documented and paid. We follow labor laws. We provide benefits that exceed the minimum requirements here in the state of New York and the five boroughs. We stand behind how we pay our people. To broadly label small businesses like mine as engaging in wage theft is not only inaccurate, it is unfair. I am also hearing about pollution. 70% of my fleet is already electric and we are working towards 100%. So we are part of the solution. This is not Amazon pushing back. This is us, small business owners and our employees. Nobody is being forced here today. People chose to work with us because we offer something different that big companies will not offer.

I am almost done. But this bill puts pressure on small businesses that we cannot absorb. And when small businesses get pushed out, it is not the big companies that suffer. It is my 150 employees and their families. This is personal. Please do not take this opportunity away from us, hardworking people who have built their lives around this. Thank you.

(04:17:39)

Good afternoon.

(04:17:41)

Good afternoon. My name is Juan Martinez. I am a small business owner that operates out of Brooklyn, New York. Dear members of the New York City Council, I am here as a small business owner that operates in New York City to express serious concern regarding the proposed Delivery Protection Act and its potential impact on companies like mine, our employees and the communities we serve. Let me be clear: we support smart, fair regulation. Government has an important role to play in establishing guidelines that ensure safety, accountability and equitable treatment of workers. In fact, those principles are core to how we operate every day. We prioritize safety above all else, provide strong wages and benefits, and actively create opportunities for growth and advancement for our team members, all of whom are New Yorkers building careers and supporting their families.

However, this legislation goes far beyond setting reasonable standards. It risks dictating how businesses must operate rather than allowing responsible operators the flexibility to meet those standards in ways that work effectively. By potentially restricting widely used operating models and imposing significant structural requirements, the proposed law would place an outsized burden on small and midsize businesses that lack the resources of large corporations. Ironically, policies like this may achieve the opposite of their intended goal. Instead of protecting workers, they risk forcing small businesses out of the market, reducing competition and opportunity, driving jobs out of New York City and increasing costs for consumers across the five boroughs. Large companies may be able to absorb these changes. Small businesses cannot. The result could be a less diverse, less competitive marketplace, one where independent operators are replaced rather than strengthened.

New York City thrives because of its small businesses. In the delivery and logistics sector alone, hundreds if not thousands of local companies provide stable employment. We have strong benefits. I am almost done. And real career pathways for New Yorkers. These businesses are not the problem. They are part of the solution. We urge the Council to reconsider the current approach, focus on setting clear enforceable standards for safety, wages and accountability, but allow businesses the flexibility to meet those standards without imposing. Thank you for your time and consideration.

(04:20:06)

Thank you. Okay.

(04:20:12)

Good afternoon, chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Chris Bazme and I own a delivery company that employs over 150 employees across Manhattan. These are not just numbers to me. These are people I know. Some of them are in the room with me today by choice. They are people who rely on this work to support their families. I have seen that firsthand. I am part of the Walker program from the panel that you spoke to previously. We have literally taken people out of homeless shelters and given them the opportunity to walk around and deliver. They rely on this to support their families and we have built something with them over time. The two individuals in the room have been with me since I started three years ago.

I want to start by saying I support the goal of protecting delivery workers. In our company, every driver is already a W2 employee, as you have heard from the other owners in these panels. We pay payroll taxes, provide workers compensation coverage and accountability built into how we operate every single day. We have made a real effort to build a stable, responsible business for the people who work with us because that is what matters the most.

What I would ask the Council to consider is how this bill will work in practice across the current delivery system as it stands. This is a complex, high volume network. As you have seen from the questions you have asked these panels, small changes can have massive impacts on this industry. Small businesses would be impacted the most and how deliveries actually get completed every day would fundamentally change. My concern is making sure that in trying to solve one problem, we do not unintentionally create others. Whether that is disrupting existing jobs, limiting opportunities for entrepreneurship, or making the system harder to operate effectively, I would respectfully ask the Council, and I am almost done, to take a close look at how this would be implemented so that the final version of the bill truly protects workers while also reflecting how the system currently operates. Thank you.

(04:22:21)

Thank you all. Just a quick question. From the last panel, does everyone function basically in the same model as the last panel talked about? Whether you are walkers or drivers, do you have the same structure?

(04:22:35)

Yes, but I am a bit of an anomaly. As I said, I have been in this industry 40 years. I have been in logistics well before Amazon hit the streets in New York City.

(04:22:44)

Right.

(04:22:45)

I am a bit different. I have got operations in warehouses in Connecticut. I serve thousands of clients. And this would affect not just Amazon. I am curious, I would like to ask the Council...

(04:23:04)

Let us take someone like Best Buy. Can I just suggest, maybe, I know we have limited time, but it sounds like you are different because you are a bigger company. I do want to make sure we get to the other 15 panels of people who want to speak. Understood.

(04:23:20)

I operate a little bit differently. I was a pilot program that started the larger ebike program for Amazon, which is something that Amazon is putting together to address urban delivery in a more...

(04:23:31)

So you are an ebike based?

(04:23:33)

Ebike based.

(04:23:34)

Okay.

(04:23:34)

Yeah. And my company, we utilize cargo vans and electric vehicles, as I mentioned before, to deliver packages to the consumers.

(04:23:44)

Not walkers.

(04:23:45)

No, we do not do the Walker model.

(04:23:46)

Same.

(04:23:47)

I am in the Walker model.

(04:23:49)

I do not think we have other questions from my colleagues. So thank you all for being here and staying so long. I want to bring up the next panel. Maria Montel Dagante, LSE Alberto Renee and Latrice Johnson. When you are ready, do we need Spanish? Okay, I do think we have an interpreter coming in. Whoever is ready can just start. Whoever on this panel is ready, if you want to just start. I know we do have an interpreter here. You can start, ma'am. You can start and we will collect your testimony. You want to just go ahead and start? That would be great.

(04:25:11)

Hi, my name is

(04:25:14)

Latrice, your mic. And everyone can be quiet in the back. We are trying to hear.

(04:25:20)

Hi, my name is Latrice and I worked as a driver at DBK4 for about two years. Us drivers, we drive Amazon vans, we wear Amazon vests and we deliver Amazon packages. We all work for Amazon. Yet they constantly tell us we do not. One day, while I was at work delivering those packages, my brother's life was taken. When I found out later that night, I let my DSP management know. The next morning, I was with family grieving when I got a call from the manager asking, "Where are you at?" I came into the station to express to everyone what I had just experienced. An Amazon manager got involved. They told me that they wanted to help and gave me some phone numbers to call so I could get access to services they had offered to workers. When I called, they connected me to a grief counselor. Later, someone else reached out to let me know that I did not qualify for any of the services Amazon offered me because I did not work for Amazon.

So after some time, I had to return to work because I could not afford to take more time off. At times I cried delivering packages to doors because I was still grieving. Amazon is the one that pays the DSP. And because the DSP needed me there at work, they did not care at the moment what I was going through. They just wanted the packages delivered. And when we all decided to stand up for ourselves and unionize, that is when Amazon wanted to retaliate against us. I lost my job along with all my co-workers when Amazon illegally cut my DSP's contract. We got no warning, even though under the WARN Act, we are supposed to get at least 60 days of advanced notice. The next day, I had no job and I had to figure out how to get another income. I have a daughter who depends on me to put food on the table. Amazon keeps getting away with this because they can put all the blame on the DSP. Amazon will continue to break the law until we hold them accountable. That is why we need to pass the Delivery Protection Act. Thank you for your time.

(04:27:32)

Thank you. And I am so sorry to hear about your loss.

(04:27:35)

Thank you.

(04:27:36)

Go ahead, sir.

(04:27:48)

Good afternoon. My name is Luke Albert Renee. I live in Jamaica, Queens and I have been an Amazon driver for three years. Amazon does not care about our safety or anyone's safety on the road. Amazon only cares about Amazon's profits. When I started working for Amazon, I did not get any real training. It was my first day and they gave me a van full of packages and put me on the road. I did not know what I was doing, but somehow I made it through without hurting myself or someone else. It did not take too long for Amazon's total disregard for our safety to catch up with me. One day I was delivering in the pouring rain. The sidewalk was slick and I slipped and fell hard on my knees. I could barely walk. But when I called back to the station to tell them about my injuries, their only response was, "Can you finish your route?" And you know what I did? I walked through the pain because I knew that if I brought those packages back, there might not be a route for me the next day. I have seen that happen to too many drivers. If we say a van is not safe to drive and we put our own health first, then all of a sudden there is not a route for us. I want to be able to make a career in this industry. I want to be able to put my safety and the public's safety first. That is why we need the City Council to act. That is why we need you to pass the Delivery Protection Act. Protect us so we can protect all of you and all of us. Thank you.

(04:31:35)

Thank you.

(04:31:36)

Good.

(04:31:38)

Hello. My name is Jerome Sllos. I live in Brooklyn and have worked as an Amazon delivery driver at DBK1 for almost two years. When I arrive at our lot, many of the vans I am expected to use are consistently lacking basic safety features. I have had to reverse into busy streets with vans that do not have functional backup cameras, so I cannot see behind me. Sometimes they cut out halfway through a maneuver. It is anxiety-inducing and it poses a grave danger to my safety as well as the public. I also frequently have to use vans that lack three points of contact, with no runner step or handlebar, which requires me to strain my body, basically having to jump in and out of the van with each package. I have asked my manager to perform this very same maneuver and he has been unable to do so. This repetitive strain leaves my knees and lower back throbbing after work and pain pills do not help. This eventually led me to the emergency room with a work-related injury. I woke up with my thighs soaked in blood and the doctor confirmed it was due to stress from heavy lifting and continuous movement on the job. I have grounded these vans to get them repaired, but I would still see them on the lot and in use the same week. My managers would remind us that we were responsible for our vans. There was also consistent pressure to not report van issues, and that we had enough vans to fulfill our heavy routes as assigned.

Sometimes I feel like I have to choose between the lesser of two evils: get a van with a functional runner step or one that is lacking a functional backup camera. It is mentally and physically exhausting to complete these routes determined by Amazon algorithms. Neither we nor the supposedly independent DSPs we work for have any say over this arrangement. This is not safe for me or the public. This is why we need to pass the Delivery Protection Act, because Amazon refuses to take responsibility for these vans and the strenuous routes that risk drivers' wellbeing. Thank you.

(04:33:30)

And besides, Queens...

(04:34:01)

My name is Maria Montiel. I am a resident of Oakland Gardens, New York. I am driving for the company Amazon for two years and three months at DBK4 in Maspeth, Queens. I was wearing the Amazon uniform. I was driving their vans. I was also delivering packages for Amazon. And even with all these things, Amazon keeps saying that I was not working for them or I was not a worker for them. I consider myself an Amazon worker, also working for the DSP as a champion, and previously I was an employee of a DSP as well.

In September 2024, they closed the first DSP who I was working for for a period of two years, and 87 families including my family were left hanging. We were left in despair, and also three months later they closed the second DSP. In both cases we were not notified in advance by Amazon or by the company, and they never let us know until I lost my job. This was a very difficult experience because I had very bad labor instability, and it was a period of uncertainty because I did not know what was going to happen tomorrow or what was going to happen later on.

Every time a DSP was closing, I noticed that my big efforts and my work dedication to this company was vanishing, was going away, and it was not even my fault. I did not have any control of the situation. Amazon closed the DSP even when the metrics were excellent. What I mean by metrics is the ratings of the employees were excellent, and they were still fired.

All this caused me very big stress because it was a lot of uncertainty. I did not know how I was going to pay my monthly bills and I did not know how I was going to feed my family. I have three daughters and my three daughters are depending on me 100%. But Amazon is using a shield to protect themselves, saying that workers like us are not direct workers for them but are independent workers, and they are trying to avoid dealing with the responsibility they have toward us.

(04:38:10)

I think we have gone... I do not know if you can just finish up.

(04:38:15)

It is only two paragraphs.

(04:38:17)

How many more paragraphs? Only two small paragraphs.

(04:38:20)

Paragraphs only.

(04:38:21)

Okay, if you can just wrap it up. Sure.

(04:38:24)

Okay. I received training for two days but this was just a video training where I was watching videos on a platform and we did not have any examination or test, and also they provided us with the answers to those questions that they were giving us. I consider that if this Bill is approved, the families will benefit from this and we will not have to deal with the terrible stress we are dealing with and the terrible situations we are facing. We need at least two weeks to be able to reorganize our lives and to obtain a new job or new employment. And now it is the last paragraph.

(04:39:28)

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

(04:39:30)

It is just one more. The last one now. It is coming.

(04:39:33)

I think she can submit it in writing. We have gone well over time, so I want to be respectful of everyone.

(04:39:39)

Chairman, they have the email address in order to send it, right?

(04:39:42)

Yes, they do. All right. I go to members. Do you have questions?

(04:39:52)

CM Cabán.

(04:39:54)

Yes. Thank you.

(04:39:56)

...

(04:39:59)

So, just anyone can chime in here, but can you talk about what some of the problems are that you are regularly seeing with the vehicles? And also, how frequently do you or your workers find a problem like the ones you might describe?

(04:40:18)

Yes. The problems that I just described — the malfunctioning backup cameras, not being able to see what you are backing up to — is a really big danger, not only for people's property but for their own body. You do not want to hit people in the street when you are backing up. There are also issues of the vans cutting off while we are on route. That has been a consistent issue since I have taken this job. They do not properly maintain these vehicles, which is why they are grounded so very often. They just stop running while you are in the middle of driving. It is not so much that they are cutting off because they lack proper battery, but like if you leave your hazards on for too long they cut off, just like that.

(04:40:55)

You are on route and it slows you down, which is a big issue because the routes are so heavy to begin with.

Can I just follow up on that? If a vehicle gets grounded because of some of these issues, how does that affect how many routes are available for the DSP? And also, once you do that, what happens when you report a problem?

Well, I cannot speak from a business standpoint of how it affects the overall business, but in terms of how it affects drivers, you have to wait a while before they can find an available van for you. So it puts you really behind when you actually start your route because they are looking and scrambling to find a functioning van.

And what was the second part of your question?

Just what happens when you report a problem generally?

Like I have already stated, the vans are there the same week with the same persistent issue, and I do not know what they are doing to pass these inspections, but it cannot be right because the issue still persists when we are given the vans.

Do you ever — this is my last followup for you — have you ever felt any pressure not to report a problem so that the vehicle does not get grounded? Because obviously you are saying the vehicle gets grounded and then you are behind on your quota and you cannot meet it.

Yes, I have. The exact wording that has been given to me more than a few times is: "Drivers, please, before you report issues with the vans, please consult your lot manager first. It can be an issue for us. Please consult us first." That is the language used, and it has been a while since they have done that. I believe they have kind of pulled back on that language ever since me and the teams have been more active on the lot. So they have been very careful in the language they use.

But before that, yes, the language used was: "Please report to us before you ground vans. It can be an issue."

Does anybody else want to talk about any of the problems that you regularly see with the vehicles, how frequent they are, and what it means for your experience on the job?

Yes. For an example, the DSP — back then, I remember when we used to have the gas vans. Basically, you could not even pull the parking brake on those vans, because as soon as you do, the van will not move. Even though you release it, the van will stay stuck. They do not really properly maintain those vans. That is the real issue. They do not even take the time to clean them. I think that is not really something that is important for them.

Basically, we get EDVs now where you get inside the van and if you are trying to just blast the fan, you see dust coming out. I reported that to my DSP owners and literally every two weeks the vans got cleaned. I just never get the luck to see it. And those issues — because of that, it is electric, it is not properly maintained, it is going to give them way more issues than a regular gas van.

I even drove EDVs where the EDV just cut off. There is a system error. The van will give you time to adjust. If you are on a highway, make sure you adjust. The van will stop, shut itself, and turn back on. But again, I reported that to my DSP owners. It is not something you can control, but it gets to that certain point.

I am going to see if any of my other colleagues... Oh.

I am sorry.

Answer the question.

Hi. Sorry for the interruption. The lady would like to ask something else. It is something about the cars.

If it is about the issues with the cars...

Basically, she says that the Amazon cars — when they are driving those cars, when the camera is not working, Amazon does not want them to park the car from the front, but from the back, because they do not want to spend money to repair the camera or money on repair services for the cars. This is how they are.

They do not want them to park the car that way so the camera will not record anything.

All right. CM Cabán. CM Thomas-Henry.

Thank you. I have a question about when you are hired. I see all of you have on Amazon gear, and in your testimony you talked about what Amazon did not do when you first got the job. When you meet with the DSP, what is your understanding in terms of who you are working for and what your benefits are?

Thank you.

So basically, in September 2022, when I applied for the job, I just thought I was working for Amazon. Honestly.

Okay.

It happened like after a few months. The DSP owner told us, "Hey, no, you do not work for Amazon. You work for us, the DSP owners." Because the training — the two-day training — is through Amazon training.

Okay. Not with the DSP. And also the behind-the-wheel training — they just have you drive around with Amazon training, and then that one day either you have a driver from that DSP just going to do something they call a ride-along for one day, and that is it.

And when you report an incident — like in your instance you fell, and other incidents with the vehicles — who are you reporting it to?

So when we have an incident, that depends on the incident itself. If you get injured, they say reach out to the DSP owners, managers, whoever is there, or your dispatcher.

Just for clarity, who tells you to reach out to those people?

So that is going to be the DSP.

Okay.

Yes. If it is other issues related to packages, for instance, either the DSP can help you or they will refer you themselves to Amazon to solve that.

We heard earlier testimony that every day when you go out there is a checklist to take out the vehicles, and then when you return them. How does that process work in real time? Because everyone has testified about issues with the vehicles.

Yes. So Amazon put that in place. I see the purpose of it, if I am going to be honest, but they do not apply it at all. For an example, my DSP — they say, "Oh, it is a 92-second DVIC." But next thing you know, Amazon calls them. So it depends on the DSP. For my DSP, they say, "Hey, go down right now." Basically, the driver will sit inside the van and just click next, next, next, next, next, next. Unless you have a driver who is really going to say, "Oh, no, I am not taking this." You know, they are going to click through it.

Because if you look at the things they have on the so-called inspection for the van going out, you will notice that nobody really pays attention to that as long as the van can go in and out. Like I said, I do not know how those vans pass inspection honestly, because when we do this, that inspection will be done with an Amazon employee depending on how you are loading your van, and they are the ones putting a sticker on it. And somehow some vans will not go out and some vans will go out.

I would say that checklist does not really apply. As long as the van has working hazard lights, headlights, half a tank of gas, and up-to-date tags, it is going out on that road. Their checks do not include the backup camera. So when they have Amazon inspectors there, they are just checking tags. They are not checking the inside of the van. They are not checking for runner steps. They are not checking for handrails for three points of contact. They are just checking for up-to-date tags, headlights and hazard lights, and that is what they consider roadworthy.

Thank you. My other colleagues... just one quick question. We heard a lot about routes being set and speed and time. Are you being told how quickly you have to get from point A to point B? Is there something in the app telling you what to do, or do you have some freedom to make sure you are not going through red lights or making sure you are parking appropriately?

So basically, regarding the routes — based on my understanding, the DSP told us each route is assigned to our drivers, and of course the DSP can choose to move things around. But basically on our route, before — you know, as the Teamsters keep saying, we have 10 hours. But drivers were not able to take their breaks, and that is why it became so frequent. Now they changed it: okay, you have to take your break.

But Amazon has a system in place. They show the DSP where certain routes — even though you have 10 hours — could be done in 5, 6 or 7 hours. And I had instances where I am on break and I still receive a text message saying, "Hey, just trying to pick it up, you are behind." While you are on your break, the Amazon system keeps moving and saying that driver has stopped, and then you are behind, and your name is on red basically.

All right, thank you. Do you want to add something?

I would just add that you are pretty consistently moving all day. You are supposed to get a 30-minute lunch break, which you do because they enforce it now — they shut off the app and you have to stop at 1:30 at our DSP. And you are supposed to get two 15-minute breaks, but it is not possible with how heavy the routes are. If you take those 15-minute breaks, you are not finishing on time. If you do that, then you are going to have to get a rescue. And if you get too many rescues, it becomes an issue where you are taken off the route.

All right. Thank you all. I appreciate it. Unless other people have questions, let us move on to the next panel. Heaven Sanchez, Kevin, Louis Lindoff, Jordan Rodriguez and Ryan Bonia for the next panel. They are here. They should come up so we can get this next panel up.

All right, go ahead. Go ahead, sir. You can start.

Good afternoon. My name is Kevin Veles. I am going to keep it very brief and short. With the abolishment of — or getting rid of the act and stuff like that — if it does come forth to that, we do not have any guarantee of being rehired again, especially those that have been given a second chance at life. With the background checks and stuff like that, we do not have any guarantee of being rehired, especially if we have kids and families. Myself, as a young man — with my DSP, I have been given PTO, health benefits, expenses paid for my kids without even having anything to do with the DSP or any programs. So the DSP owners are for the people and are for us, and it does benefit us at the end of the day. That is really much of it.

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

Good afternoon to one and all. My name is Jalan Javeis and this is my testimony. I came to the United States on a school scholarship, then I became a delivery driver for one of the best companies in the Bronx. When I first started working with this company, our rate was $20 an hour, and this was 2014. From day one to now, this company's rate has tremendously risen to $24 plus an hour, which has therefore helped many of us — like my colleagues — in many ways. For example, we get free tuition, we get bonus hours. For me, I work 33 hours a week. Five days a week, I get paid for 50. Most companies are not doing that.

And my favorite one is my 401k. My boss, he matches my 401k at a good rate. Moving on, I was able to afford an apartment, my car. I was able to help my loved ones back home, travel and all that. We are against this bill — against Int 0518-2026. So either me or my fellow colleagues will face such a hard situation that would definitely make a hard impact financially and mentally for most of us. And then you are probably going to ask why we do not work for a bigger company. Working for a bigger company is not going to give us numerous opportunities to be recognized, whether it is small or big — a flexible schedule and a great CEO. That is what we have got. Yeah, that is it. Thank you.

Thank you. Go ahead. Go ahead, sir.

Good afternoon. My name is Joshua Viegas. I am a delivery driver in the Bronx. I have been delivering for a little over a year, and in that short time I have been able to gain financial stability. Before starting this current job, I had a large amount of debt and was struggling to find a well-paying job that allowed me flexibility to take care of my family as well as gaining financial freedom. This job has given me both and I am better off for it today. I am not the only one either. My colleagues and co-workers have all been able to better themselves and progress in their careers and in life. I have seen multiple co-workers get promoted and have the ability to grow and provide for themselves and their families. This bill would put all our jobs and futures in jeopardy. So I just ask you to think about us — the people — not the larger corporations that it would actually affect the most. Your constituents. Please vote no.

Hey, my name is Louis Lindoff. I am a delivery driver for Logistics Express, and I am here today to speak about how important this company and small businesses are for people like me. I did not come from an easy background, I am not going to lie. I used to be making bad decisions and I ended up in a bad situation. I went through a hard time, but...

Take your time, you know.

I used to be in the streets making bad decisions and I ended up doing almost 5 years in jail. That was a hard time in my life, but it also changed me. When I got out, I knew I wanted to do better, but it is not that easy to get opportunity with a record. Logistics Express gave me the opportunity. When I came home, this small business helped me get back on my feet. It gave me a way to make honest money, stay busy and stay out of trouble. It gave me structure, responsibility and a second chance to rebuild my life. Today I am working, I am focused and I am moving forward. This company is not just income for me. It is stability and it is what keeps me on the right path.

I am not the only one here. There are a lot of people like me who made mistakes — people trying to do better, people who just need a chance. And this small business gives you that chance. That is why I am here, because anything that puts these companies at risk puts people like me at risk of going backward instead of forward. I am asking you to think about people like me when you make this decision. This small business changed lives. It changed mine.

Good afternoon. My name is Ryan Bonia. I am here opposing Int 0518-2026. I am a delivery driver for Logistics Express. I was born and raised in Spanish Harlem. Before joining this DSP based out of the Bronx, a job was just a job. You show up, you do your work, you go home. Logistics Express did not just give me employment. It gave me opportunity — opportunity to grow, to learn and to become better professionally and personally. It is not only about numbers and metrics. It is about us as a team. I feel seen, supported and valued. This kind of environment pushes you to do your best, not only because you have to, but because you want to. In larger corporations, it is easy to feel like just another number, another employee, another delivery driver that gets lost in the shuffle. But here, that is not the case. At Logistics Express, your voice matters, your work matters and most importantly, you matter. If this bill passes, it affects not only me and my team, but also my family. Thank you.

Thank you. Go ahead.

Hello, my name is Heaven Sanchez. I am 25 years old and I have lived in New York all my life, specifically the Bronx. Being born and raised here, I have seen firsthand how difficult it can be to find real opportunities to make a real living without the right credentials. Two years ago, after a period of unemployment, I was given a chance at Logistics Express. And I cannot fully express how grateful I am — not just for the job, but for the company and for my boss — because I am not employed by Amazon. I am employed by Bashar, and he takes care of me. I just wanted to add that because that is why we are really here: for the small business owners that do it right. I get bonuses, I get vacation time, tuition for school, tuition for a CDL license to better my life and continue to grow in this world we live in today.

We are all here standing, trying to make our voices heard. We are united in opposition to this bill because it threatens to take away opportunities from families like mine. This is not just a policy for us. It is personal. I urge you to think about the real lives behind this decision and think about the families who will be affected — the people who are working hard every day just to survive and provide. Please stand with us. Vote against this bill for me and my family and everyone here today standing.

Oh, thank you. I want to make sure my colleagues have any questions. I am going to start with CM Cabán.

Do you want to go first?

I will yield to CM...

Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I will go.

You had made mention about working 33 hours and you said that you get paid for 50 hours per week. And the background checks, brother — you know, I represent a district that has a lot of individuals who are justice-involved and who are discriminated against for their background and the mistakes that they made. You are saying that if this bill goes through, you would actually be discriminated against because of your background.

I truly believe so, for the simple fact that if they are going to have to go through licensing through — I believe it was the DOT or the... I do know that there are more requirements that have to be processed for them to receive the licensing, meaning who they hire is also going to be required to have a certain kind of background or experience. So with me being a first-time driver coming home...

Right.

...after my sentence, it was more or less hard to get back into regular life. So Jordan, as the owner of One Dream Logistics, gave me the second chance and opportunity. Although my background did pass, it was also the paperwork that I had to bring forth and providing the right credentials to work. That is it.

So this bill, as it currently is, will take away that second chance.

Yeah. I strongly believe that, for the simple fact that if we are not guaranteed of being rehirable as they claim, then I have no other way to feed my five kids.

Thank you. CM Banks, that is it. All right. CM Cabán.

Yeah, thank you. I was just curious because we heard about the different models. Do you guys work on the walk model or are you working directly out of the van? What structure do you have?

We are drivers.

You are drivers. Got it.

I am a driver. We are drivers. Yeah.

I am a driver as well.

Okay. So nobody here does the walk model. You guys are driving. And when you are doing your deliveries, what kinds of equipment do you get?

We get everything we need for the road — hand trucks, battery packs just in case. If we are in a gas van, we have battery packs so we can charge up the battery ourselves to...

Like jump it if you have to.

Correct. And for electric, we have extra batteries for the key fobs. That is the only thing that is really having issues on an electric van. We have hand trucks, we have flashlights.

We even have things for dogs — beepers so that if there is a dog in a fence we can beep it so they go away. Flashlights when it is dark.

Yeah.

Do you guys... So obviously you are doing a big job, you are delivering a ton of different packages. Is there anything that you think you would name that would make your job better, easier, safer? What changes would you make if you could make any?

Everything is open to succeeding, and it does not matter what borough or what company or what you work for. Everyone has room to grow.

Yeah. But I am asking what are some things that you think might help, if anything.

I firmly believe that there is nothing that should be changed. It depends on your work ethic and on you as a person — as a man or a woman delivering packages. Truly, we are already equipped with the gas cards, we are equipped with hand trucks, gloves, cold jackets with thermal inside. We are equipped with everything. So it really is you as a person and how you work and how you deliver and your work ethic and your itinerary and what you decide to do on your route. It depends on your day.

Thank you guys.

Thank you.

Done. Yeah.

You do...

(05:03:56)

CM Thomas-Henry.

(05:03:57)

So, Logistics Express it is. Is this the only DSP you have all ever worked for or have you worked for other DSPs?

(05:04:06)

Everyone is different, but I have only worked for this.

(05:04:08)

My only DSP.

(05:04:10)

And it is the best.

(05:04:11)

It is my only DSP, too. I see the love in the room. So when you are loading up these trucks, are there other DSPs?

(05:04:19)

Correct.

(05:04:20)

Companies, and do you see a difference between those DSP workers and yourselves? Well, we cannot speak for other DSPs and how they run their companies.

(05:04:31)

Not how they run their companies, but...

(05:04:33)

You guys said you have the nice t-shirts, you have the hand warmers, you have the trucks, you have everything. What I am trying to understand is if the services that you receive... I understand you are all very happy with Logistics. Are they consistent from what you see at the warehouse with other DSPs, or are you guys kind of like the crème de la crème and other people want to work for Logistics? Like, is it consistent that your counterparts that work for another DSP have the same? They are consistent. They are the same. So it is not DSP specific. So are those things being provided by Amazon or your individual DSPs?

(05:05:12)

Individual DSP.

(05:05:13)

Individual DSPs. And I just want to make it clear that One Dream Logistics — I am with One Dream Logistics in the Bronx at Morris Park. Okay. We are for sure guaranteed everything is there every day, whether it is toe warmers, hand warmers, we have everything no matter what. And that is with all throughout. And if not, we are supposed to vouch for ourselves. This is our job. If we have to go in the morning, I come in to work and my battery pack is not working — that is on me, and I did not check it. My phone is dead and I did not check it. These are things that affect me and me only. I was supposed to check it at the beginning of my day so that they can fix it, whatever that is. Do you have any vehicle issues when you are out on your routes?

(05:05:55)

Usually no.

(05:05:58)

If we do have any issues, it is supposed to be up to us, the driver, to make sure. I do understand that a lot of people in other DSPs maybe just click through the checklist and just go to get done quickly, but we do not. We actually look around and if there is anything wrong with the vehicle, a flat tire or anything, or some of the lights do not work, then we either get it fixed if it is possible there, or we change to a van that is in good condition. As well as that, at least once a week, coming back to the station, the Amazon employees will check the vans as well for lights and if the step on the step van or anything, to make sure it is all up to code and stuff.

(05:06:42)

Thank you. Can I ask just two questions? Has anyone here been involved in an accident? No?

(05:06:53)

No. Not yet.

(05:06:54)

Great. Good drivers. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, I have in my life. But turnover — we have heard a lot about turnover. Where you work, are there new people coming in regularly? Is the workforce pretty consistent?

(05:07:08)

It is a pretty consistent thing. We have a lot of people being hired.

(05:07:12)

You still have new people coming in regularly. Absolutely. On a regular basis.

(05:07:16)

Okay. People need their packages, you know.

(05:07:18)

Yeah. More people, right?

(05:07:22)

And everybody is supposed to work 40 hours. In Logistics, our job is so much. Most people work six days, some people work five days, you know, just to be out here. I will be honest.

(05:07:41)

I am from the Caribbean, right? All my family live in the Caribbean. My boss, he is like a father to us. He looks for us outside of the job, inside the job. You understand?

(05:07:53)

Yeah, I would love to hear that. That is great. That is amazing.

(05:07:55)

And to add on to what he was saying, if I come into work and I have anything personal going on, if I do not feel like I am in the right headspace, they will not even put you on route. They will make sure that there is always a replacement. So if you are not in that right headspace, if something is going on, they will take you off without hesitation.

(05:08:14)

All right. Thanks for sharing that. They will always make sure you are good to go on the road, mentally and physically.

(05:08:21)

Good. All right. Thank you

(05:08:24)

very much for this panel. Anyone else has questions? I appreciate you all. Thanks, panel. Jesus Reyes, Cole Stallone, Michael LeBron, Christian Tromboli and Manuel Martinez. Good afternoon. I do not know which order you want to go — right to left, left to right.

(05:09:33)

I am happy to start.

(05:09:34)

Thank you.

(05:09:35)

My name is Cole Stallone. I was born and raised in lower Manhattan. I have worked at UPS since 2023 and was an ebike delivery driver for most of 2025. You may have seen these new vehicles around, but ironically enough, Amazon does not consider them vehicles, nor us drivers, to avoid DOT regulations. This is just one way Amazon has manipulated the law to avoid regulations and failed to provide protections for those that make Amazon the second largest company by revenue in the world. Ebike training was run at an Amazon facility in New Jersey by Amazon employees with minimal experience doing the job we do in New York. The process was more like onboarding rather than something designed to create safe couriers. Actual driving time consisted of less than 15 minutes on the bike, driving and reversing in an empty parking lot. Many of the unsafe events I have witnessed during my time can be blamed on Amazon's failure to directly employ us and properly train us.

I witnessed my DSP owner get hit by a new rider at a slow speed and they allowed that rider to continue their route due to low staffing and pressure from Amazon. A majority of on-road accidents were caused by sending new hires out alone on their first day, again due to low staffing and pressure from Amazon. After complaining to Amazon and our DSPs about broken carts filled with the packages we deliver, I witnessed a cart fall off a truck and injure a young worker with no formal training in the task. That worker was later disciplined and fired. Only Amazon benefits from the current arrangement — not the DSP owners caught in the liability trap, nor the workers risking their lives on new equipment with limited training. Amazon does this to maximize their profits at the cost of a city that is less safe than it should be. This is why we need the Delivery Protection Act to hold Amazon accountable as the employers they really are and to create real consequences for their failure to provide meaningful safety training and protections from all kinds of retaliation. Thank you for your time.

(05:11:36)

Hi, my name is Christian Tromboli. I am from Fresh Meadows, Queens, and I was an Amazon delivery driver for about a year and a half. While working at Amazon, I was employee of the month and the front runner of my DSP within the year. I would anxiously follow rules and always try my best. I took pride in my work. One of the many reasons I decided to organize a union at my workplace was because I felt like drivers had no real job security. Even when you worked hard and did everything right, your schedule could still be cut, your route changed, or worse, your job taken away. The idea that we have any job security under the DSP model is laughable.

The day before Thanksgiving, I noticed my manager surveilling me while I was having a conversation about union organizing. I was talking to my coworker about how they felt about the job, about how Amazon was completely capable of treating us better. By the end of that same day, I was fired. No notice or explanation until I confronted them about it the day after Thanksgiving, where they claimed it was because I did not lock my van doors one time while delivering to a house right in front of it. This is not something we were ever trained on or were told was a fireable offense. My co-workers struggled to believe that I could be fired for such a petty reason. To think that our job security meant so little to Amazon and our managers.

Even when I applied for unemployment, my application was denied based on this reason, which I know is thanks to my DSP owner and Amazon trying to avoid responsibility. I felt really frustrated and personally disrespected that this company went out of its way to deny me a basic benefit after all the time I had worked for them. I could not believe it. We are the face of this company and we give Amazon its good name and we should not be retaliated against for trying to make this a safe and sustainable career. This is why the Delivery Protection Act needs to be passed, because it is clear that Amazon cares so little about the hardworking men and women who work for Amazon for the bills they have to pay and the families they are trying to support. Thank you.

(05:13:31)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(05:13:34)

Hi, how are you doing? My name is Jesus. I was born and raised in the Bronx. I am here representing One Dream Logistics. I just want to say that I honestly have had an amazing experience. I have been there for about a year now — I make a year in about two weeks — and I honestly have had an amazing experience. I learned so much from my manager and my co-workers. I also learned a couple of things that I could take with me in life as well. Every morning we do a standup. So basically the owner of One Dream Logistics will come in, talk to all the drivers that are going out on the road today, give us a motivating quote, and basically talk us through the day, tell us how the weather is, and basically give the drivers a pat on the back for the top performing drivers from the previous day.

Also, every week he likes to give out rewards to the top performing drivers, so that is also an incentive to push the drivers to perform better and safely as well, because safety is everything. We all have a scorecard and if we all complete our route in a safe manner, there is a chance — there are three winners that get picked at the end of each week if we get a perfect scorecard — we have a chance to win a gift card or it could be anything. So that is also another thing.

Another thing I can say is that my manager basically did not look at my background. He basically took me in as one of his own. He also basically showed me what it is to be a business owner as well. Hopefully, I do have goals of owning my own DSP as well. I do not know what this situation might mean for the future, but as a small business owner, I see him helping families, helping churches, and he is doing that off of his own free will. That is motivating to me and that is also inspirational to me, and that is why I have hopes of one day owning my own DSP. But that is pretty much it.

(05:15:48)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(05:15:51)

Good afternoon. My name is Michael LeBron. I work at JFK8, a fulfillment center in Staten Island. But before that, I worked at a delivery station called DYX2. I am here today to speak about the safety violations I witnessed in the last mile facility and the broader lack of accountability at Amazon. At DYX2, there is a process called TDR — trailer docking and release. It is a critical safety role where workers secure those trucks to make sure that it is safe to unload and load the packages, because it is so dangerous at times. If done incorrectly, all workers must be properly trained and certified yearly just to do that role. But in my experience, especially during peak season like Prime Day and the holidays, those safety rules went out the window.

When things get busy, management pressured myself and my co-workers who are untrained to load and unload the trucks anyway. People without certification certificates were put in positions where one mistake could seriously hurt someone. I saw co-workers rush into these roles, confused and unprepared, just to keep up with production. This creates a dangerous environment not just inside the building but for the public too, because if trucks are not properly secured, that risk follows onto the streets.

We have already seen what happens when safety fails. In April 2025, a fellow coworker named Leonor Chaveal was killed during my shift at JFK8 by being struck by a reversing box truck. After his death, Amazon avoided responsibility by saying both him and the driver were contractors. For workers like me, that sends a clear message: even when someone loses their life, the company can avoid accountability. We were never told what happened or whether it was a safety issue. When something that serious happens and workers are left in the dark, it shows how little Amazon really cares about us. That is why the Delivery Protection Act needs to be passed. It would ensure companies like Amazon follow the law and that all workers, no matter how they are classified, are protected by real safety standards and enforcement. Thank you for listening.

(05:18:14)

Thank you. Go ahead, Manny. Do you want somebody to read it for you or do you have it?

(05:18:20)

Where is it? Oh. Good afternoon. My name is Manuel Martinez. I live in Far Rockaway and I travel all the way to the Staten Island JFK8 warehouse. I have been employed there since 2021. I am a blind employee and there are many like me in the facility. In this facility, there is a green tape — a green thick layer of tape we call the green mile. This green mile helps people who are visually impaired and blind associates to navigate through the facility. With this green tape, there is supposed to be a clean, clear walk pathway for us. A lot of times it is not.

I am here to speak on a safety violation that occurred a few months ago. There was a fire alarm that went off during the shift. No management or staff came to me or any of the blind associates to let us know what was supposed to be done. We took it upon ourselves to walk out of the facility, because if there is a fire in the building, it obviously makes sense to leave. As we got to the exit, we heard commotion, chaos, and people disputing. Literally, management and staff were blocking the exit, preventing employees from exiting, even those who have disabilities. If there is a fire in a facility, a potential fire in the facility, would it not make sense to leave? Make that make sense.

Still to this day, there has been nothing — no kind of accountability from management and leadership. That is why I am in favor of this bill. It will help keep Amazon accountable and make them more proactive instead of reactive, and make sure that management can no longer get away with any kind of violations, even those affecting people who are disabled. I think that we could do better. Thank you and have a good day.

(05:20:08)

Going to my colleagues, if anyone...

(05:20:14)

Okay. So you were fired by your DSP or by Amazon?

(05:20:28)

I mean, my DSP owner fired me, but being that none of my co-workers and I felt that we were safe to talk about union organizing on the job, I feel it is safe to believe that these DSP owners and managers are briefed on watching out for people like us because we are a threat to them. So I like to think that, big picture, Amazon is also targeting us, but it is the DSP owner.

(05:20:58)

Were you able to file a complaint, a labor board complaint, like a lawsuit, a labor board complaint, or did you go to worker protection?

(05:21:10)

Yeah, the Teamsters have my back and they filed an unfair labor practice lawsuit for me on my behalf. Yeah.

(05:21:20)

Thank you.

(05:21:23)

Go ahead.

(05:21:24)

Thank you. I have noticed that you guys have been sitting here for the entirety of the hearing. Earlier, we heard testimony where someone said that essentially what some of the normal practices are is that when the workers at a DSP organize and vote to form a union, what they are seeing afterwards is that Amazon then terminates the contract with that DSP. Is that something that you have seen or heard of? Absolutely. I know people personally, including people in this room, who have had their DSP contracts cut as soon as they tried to fight for something better. And I read about this experience on the internet all the time. Yeah, it is very common and it is a very easy way for Amazon to essentially nullify our right to unionize our jobs by just cutting the contract. Got it. Thank you.

(05:22:20)

Thank you all for staying and for taking

(05:22:22)

the time to be here. Lewis Leandri, Zach McHugh, Joshua Viegas, Gerard Bismagi, Sheris Smith, Matt McGari... Is anyone else on this panel here? Okay, we are just going to call more people then. Matthew Maltari, Christian Martinez, Connor Spence, Kenan Jones and Jeffrey Aras. Okay, next one. Whoever is ready to go, you can please go. Go ahead.

(05:23:47)

Yeah. When it is red, just make sure it

(05:23:50)

goes red.

(05:23:50)

Got it. Thank you. My name is Matt Mutari. I live in Astoria and I drive for Amazon at DBK1. So I want to tell a story today. One day on the BQE, I am driving between stops and my van's transmission is shot. I could not accelerate past 25 mph and then the transmission just randomly switches to neutral. So I am stuck on a highway in New York traffic decelerating well below the speed limit because the van is in neutral. I am unable to control my vehicle and I am just trying to make it to the next exit safely. When I pulled over, my heart is racing, my ears are ringing, and I just had this thought that I almost died dressed like a tube of toothpaste. And I am here today to make sure that that does not happen to anybody else.

How does Amazon endanger public safety through the DSP model? By pushing DSPs to have us drive broken vans. My DSP has told me that Amazon requires them to keep enough vans available to fill routes. And we know routes can increase on a day-to-day basis, sometimes the night before or the morning of. It does not pay them enough to afford all repairs. These are things that I have heard from my DSP. The fact is Amazon uses DSPs to avoid paying for van repairs and then pretends to care about safety to save face, as if they had nothing to do with these vans falling apart.

Amazon also dictates how we do our job down to the smallest detail. If we go slower than it wants us to go, if we cannot deliver all the packages, if we do not follow the exact order of stops it tells us to follow — which are often inefficient; you will have stop 25 and stop 52 on the same street, like 10 feet away — managers tell us we are in the red zone of the performance graph. The truth is DSPs are constantly terrified of getting axed by Amazon. So they pass this fear down and try to keep us terrified of getting axed if we go too slow. Hustling in New York City means violating traffic laws by parking at hydrants and driveways and doing so in vans that are falling apart.

City Council, please pass the Delivery Protection Act. Let us do our jobs safely with equipment that works and without being forced into dangerous situations by algorithms and people who have never had to lift 100 pounds of fancy mineral water up five flights of stairs. Amazon is a threat to the people of New York, so please put it in check. Thank you.

(05:26:43)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(05:26:46)

All right. Good afternoon, Council members. My name is Connor Spence and I am the president of Amazon Labor Union, International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local One. I am here speaking in support of the Delivery Protection Act. As corporations like Amazon become wealthier and more powerful, the more theoretical the law becomes for them. Instead of serving as a tool of justice, the legal system becomes a toy, something to manipulate, a tool that allows companies like Amazon to exist in a state of constant contradiction. I am one of the original organizers of the union campaign at Amazon's JFK facility in Staten Island, the warehouse where we won a historic union election in 2022. Four years later, Amazon still refuses to honor the results of that election. They are illegally refusing to come to the table and negotiate with workers despite being ordered to do so several times, including as recently as last week. In our case, they argue they do not believe the NLRB process was legitimate because it did not reflect the will of a majority of employees. So in response, over 30 units of workers at facilities across the country have unionized through a different process, one that starts with a majority of employees asserting their union status and giving the company every opportunity to

(05:27:56)

challenge that majority. They claim that process is unfair, too. To Amazon, no process is legitimate when workers win. They went to federal court to argue that the National Labor Relations Act was unconstitutional and that we need to throw out a century of labor law. But when workers sought to have labor violations addressed at the state level, Amazon intervened and said those cases needed to go to the National Labor Relations Board, the same agency they believe should not exist. They always want to have it both ways. This company does not operate on principle. They do not believe in the law. Their only north star is the pursuit of profit and they will do and say whatever it takes to make the most money possible.

So when Amazon tells us delivery drivers are not really their employees even though they wear Amazon uniforms, drive Amazon vans, and work under Amazon's complete control, are we really supposed to believe that? Or are we going to acknowledge that as usual they want to have it both ways? They want to be the boss without being the employer. We need the Delivery Protection Act because we need stronger guardrails around what a company like Amazon is allowed to get away with and how they are able to impact workers and our communities. Thank you.

(05:29:03)

Thank you again.

(05:29:06)

My name is Jeffrey. I worked at DBK Ford Management for about two years as an Amazon driver. Have you seen Amazon drivers drag a bag-like box across the ground while delivering? This is because we need hand trucks to be able to do our jobs properly. As delivery drivers, these hand trucks are extremely important. They take loads off our body and help us move packages efficiently. One day, I was clocking into work. I picked up my pouch with the Amazon van key and dispatch had a limited amount of hand trucks. I did not get one. I had many heavy oversized packages and my management said, "Amazon will not provide it for you guys, and they do not pay us enough money to buy hand trucks. This is Amazon's fault." However, when I go to Amazon directly about these issues, it is often neglected because Amazon states I do not work for them and tells me to contact my DSP about my issues. So while Amazon gets their way and gets their profits, the DSP is there for no reason, just to take responsibility away from Amazon and exploit us.

As Amazon drivers, we usually are not provided hand trucks. And this is one reason why Amazon drivers are frequently getting injured. I always went home with aches and pains in my back, my shoulders and my legs, and I am still dealing with it to this current day, and I am only 24 years old. You may think a hand truck is not a big deal, but as a delivery driver, this is extremely important for our safety. This was not a one-time occurrence, but one example out of many to show how Amazon hides behind their DSPs to avoid responsibility for our safety. The Amazon drivers that deliver your packages every single day are suffering. How do you expect Amazon drivers to do their job efficiently, save their body from injury, and have a career without the key tools to deliver safely? Please, we need to pass the Delivery Protection Act. Thank you for the opportunity to testify at this hearing.

(05:30:52)

Hi, how are you doing? My name is Tristan Martinez. I live in Staten Island and I am a worker at Amazon's JFK8 facility for the last 7 years. I have been organizing with the Amazon Labor Union since before it was formed in 2021. I was part of the campaign that made JFK the first unionized Amazon facility in history. I am here today because I have seen firsthand how Amazon breaks labor law and how they continue to get away with it.

Before our union election, Amazon ramped up its union-busting tactics. One of the main tools they used was something called captive audience meetings. These are mandatory meetings where workers are forced to sit and listen to anti-union messaging while we are on the clock. For weeks leading up to the election, we were pulled off the floor with no explanation and required to attend these meetings over and over again. In those rooms, Amazon managers and consultants spread misinformation, selling us lies about union dues and making false claims about union leaders at that time to try to scare us out of organizing.

In 2024, the National Labor Relations Board ruled that these types of captive audience meetings are illegal because they interfere with workers' rights to organize freely. But that did not stop Amazon. They just found a new loophole and instead now require that all new hires be exposed to anti-union propaganda on their very first day. They were told it was optional as part of their day one orientation, but they were not told what it actually is. Most people stay because they do not want to risk their job on day one. It is coercion designed as a choice.

That is why I support the Delivery Protection Act. This Bill would require companies like Amazon to actually comply with labor laws. And if they want to keep running their last mile delivery operations in this City, if a company is breaking the law, they should not be able to keep doing business as usual. Please pass this Bill. Thank you, City Council, for holding this hearing and allowing workers like myself and everyone in this room to say their piece. Thank you.

(05:32:57)

Go ahead, sir.

(05:32:59)

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Kenan Jones. I am an Amazon driver from DBK4 in Maspeth, Queens, who was unfairly and wrongfully terminated in 2024 for simply exercising my right to organize with my union. The truth is we are fed up with the unfair and unsafe conditions we are forced to work under for the sake of productivity and profit. The vans are unsafe for the public and frankly disgusting for drivers. I have been forced to drive vans full of garbage, bottles of urine, and even blood and vomit, when to cut costs they send people home that could at the very least make sure that the vehicles are sanitary. And as an Amazon customer, do you want your packages coming into your home from a van with urine, blood, and vomit?

Many of these vans are not safe to be on New York City streets. I have been told to drive vans with low tire pressure, dirty windshields that we could not clean, and doors that were held in place with bungee cords. Although we did have to perform pre-trip inspections, the worst thing you could do is ground a vehicle. If I disrupted Amazon's profit in the name of safety, I knew that I could be terminated or punished by losing days of work. How do you feel knowing that there are unsafe vehicles on the road that pose a very real danger to you and your family?

This is not an attack on private enterprise. This is a plea for human dignity serving the public. I am also here on behalf of the 2,000 plus drivers that used to work at CMP Logistics, now known as NetZero, owned by Mark Chioano, who were terminated unfairly and unjustly as well. Stop letting Amazon pass the blame to the delivery service partners who are also cutting corners to maintain their companies. Please pass the Delivery Protection Act to keep you and I safe and hold Amazon accountable for their employees. Thank you.

(05:35:01)

Thank you. CM Aldebol. >> Yeah. So I have a question. Who did the orientation meetings and the captive audience meetings? Was it your DSP or Amazon?

(05:35:19)

It would be Amazon.

(05:35:21)

Amazon. Same. Yeah. In our warehouse it was Amazon. They would fly in special people from out of state to come and run these meetings.

(05:35:33)

Yeah.

(05:35:34)

Same with us, but the DSP would also participate. Like, the DSP managers would speak in addition to the union buster.

(05:35:43)

Thank you. That is helpful. CM Ossé, but while we have a tour of the balcony from the Scottish Parliament delegation, thank you for being with us and joining us here at City Hall. >> Thank you. I want to ask about the tracking. While you are making deliveries, you are being tracked, right? Can you talk about how you are being tracked? What the app does, what

(05:36:09)

kind of system it is, whether it tells you if you are on pace — just describe what it does every day. >> So they have an algorithm when you deliver packages. It might say you are a certain number of stops behind or a certain number of stops ahead. And everywhere you go, whenever you are logged into the Flex app or the Mentor app, you get tracked

(05:36:29)

anywhere you go. And if you forget to log out of it, and if you use your personal phone — because often the phones die — you may have to log into your personal phone to deliver packages because the phone may not work or may not be charging or they cannot get a charger to you. So you may log on to your personal phone and then forget to log out of the Flex app because you are delivering packages on your personal phone. And then they can track you at your house or wherever you go after work. Even after you clock out, they can see from the computer at the dispatch table.

(05:37:00)

Does anybody else have other information to add about the app and how it tracks or what it tracks?

(05:37:09)

Yeah, go ahead.

(05:37:11)

It tells you how many stops are in your route in total. And then you see it is like a bar and it goes down as you deliver. Same thing with the number of packages. And then you have a map which is your itinerary. So you see where the stops are on the map. As you are doing it, they tell you sometimes if you ask a manager about the pace, but you mostly learn just from other drivers and experience. Usually it is around between 10 to 20 stops an hour. Sometimes maybe a little bit faster, maybe a little bit slower depending on the route volume. But if you are way below, like five stops an hour or something, and you have not done a certain number of stops in an hour, they will probably call you.

(05:37:47)

Got it. And who calls you, your DSP or somebody else? >> Yeah, like your dispatcher.

(05:37:55)

Okay, got it. Because we heard

(05:37:57)

earlier that Amazon is sending it to the DSP and then the DSP is sending it to you, the driver. But do you know if your DSP designed the app that you use, or could they turn off the app for you if they wanted to? >> No, this is designed by Amazon. It is

(05:38:14)

Amazon Flex.

(05:38:16)

Got it. Okay. Yeah. And Amazon can ban your account. So it would not have anything to do with the DSP. If Amazon sees something they do not like or somebody reports something, you can get your account banned directly from Amazon and then no DSP will ever be able to hire you again.

(05:38:31)

Got it. Thank you. Thanks, Chair.

(05:38:34)

Thank you. And thank you for your time and for staying this long on this panel. I want to bring up the next panel: Amit Chararma, Dan Brooks, Lou Ahmed, Mark Fashini, Joseph Watson and Charlie U.

(05:39:18)

All right. Go ahead. We can just start, sir. Yeah. >> Good morning. My name is Denon Brooks

(05:39:25)

and I am a representative for Kaizen. I do not work for Amazon. First and foremost, if you flip this bill, it would diminish a lot of the small businesses that help other people grow and who are interested in making their lives much better. For myself, I am 53, I have a senior citizen mother, and I was homeless. Kaizen gave me the opportunity to make my living arrangements much better instead of trying to be inside a shelter and depending on the City or the state to help us. So the dependency is upon me and my senior citizen mother. Right now I live in an Airbnb. I do not have a home. So basically I am still homeless. But I work with Kaizen and they gave me the encouragement to do better, to take care of my mom and find a home for us. I just came back to New York about a year ago. So being with them has given me more inspiration to do good for a business that is not for everybody else. Being independent and growing gives me inspiration to do better for the company.

Can people in the back be quiet? We want to be able to hear. We can close the door. >> Go ahead, sir. Continue.

And my co-workers. I have been put in a position to teach about safety, reliability, responsibility and being held accountable for all your responsibilities on the job. So I enforce that for all the younger people that work with me. And if you pass this bill, you are just taking away from us that are struggling, trying to make it, trying to keep our head above water. That is all that I have to say. And really, basically the issue here is Amazon. So I am quite sure there are other ways to work around this and help enforce safety for those with these smaller companies, but the main character is Amazon. They need to be held accountable and not be giving money under the table to politicians.

(05:41:31)

Thank you. Go ahead, ma'am.

(05:41:34)

My name is Sarah Thompson and I am here in opposition of this bill. The true and immediate effect of passing this type of bill is thousands of people, including myself and the hundred-plus people I employ, would be quickly out of a job and for many more people out of purpose. I am an ebike business owner here in New York City, which I am passionate about for so many reasons, including because it is a great operation and a visible part of the one and only New York City community. Our method is a new wave that is great for the environment. We are green and lean but mighty and already a visible niche in the city, delivering smiles safely to every corner.

I teetered with the idea to launch my business after being in cargo and logistics for over a decade in the airline industry, which Chairman Epstein utilizes the same model. That is another industry where for-profit companies contract other for-profit companies. They dictate eligibility, background screening requirements, wages for employees, scope of work for the company, training. The parent company owns and leases the facility. This is a model that is used in various industries. But I digress. I moved forward with launching my business when I saw a woman that looked like me excel in entrepreneurship. Words cannot illustrate how powerful and inspirational it was to see a small business owner, female, first generation female from the Caribbean, a true pillar in her community, contribute to the economy. Today, that woman is me.

I do not subcontract anyone. I directly employ every person that joins my team as W2 employees. I hire people from all walks of life trying to grow and better themselves. I offer 401k, health, medical, dental and vision benefits to all my employees, including my many part-time employees, tuition reimbursement, child care subsidies, you name it. This bill is limiting the options delivery associates would have to go to for employment. I offer livelihood and occupation to anyone who needs it. I have offered single mothers in need of flexibility, students wanting to excel in their first job, New York City transplants just trying to get their foot in the door at a place where they are looking for opportunity to grow in leadership positions. I give grace to people that need access to decision makers, instead of this bill forcing direct employment, which would simply diminish voices for people in that faceless corporate grinder.

This bill and so much of this conversation dehumanizes the true touch and impact my company and others like it have on everyday people. This bill does not protect workers. In plain English, in my opinion, it is a war on mom and pop logistics shops. It is literally trying to eradicate small businesses that, in a world and society where conglomerations have a monopoly on almost everything, have resiliently and in partnership etched a way into existence. Also, a comment made by a Council member earlier about the attention that Amazon is giving this bill: Amazon is taking a major hands-off approach here because they are not interested in battling City Council. All the attention and chatter you are experiencing is from company owners and people on the ground. I shudder at so much of this conversation that seems more like political agenda and war against one or two corporations, with a full understanding that small business is left in the dust and the worker is even more exposed to job insecurity. >> Thank you.

(05:45:00)

Hello, my name is Mark Fisheen. I was born and raised in Queens and have lived there my whole life. I own a small package delivery service company and I vehemently oppose the Delivery Protection Act. I started my first shipping company in April 2013 by purchasing a route which serviced Midtown Manhattan that employed one full-time driver and four full-time helpers. Later in 2013, I purchased another route adjacent to the first that employed one full-time driver and three additional full-time helpers. The drivers that were running and managing those routes are still employees of mine 13 years later. From there, I grew our logistics business and as of today we currently have 225 delivery associates, 25 field managers and 10 dispatchers.

I believe the most valuable asset of any business owner is their employees. I have been blessed to be able to grow our business because of the dedication of our people and the amazing team we have built. Our management team is not only responsible for making sure our day-to-day operations run flawlessly, but more importantly that they are in constant communication with our team members to make sure the workdays run as smoothly as possible. Daily standup safety meetings for both our drivers and walkers are mandatory operating procedures. Making sure each of our employees is safe, whether on the road while driving or walking on the streets while delivering, is our top priority.

The reason I got into this business is because I saw the emerging growth of e-commerce and I felt it was a safe small business to invest in. Owning and operating a logistics company requires a lot of upfront capital and access to lines of credit to make sure we keep our fleet of trucks current, safe and mechanically sound. If the Delivery Protection Act becomes law and New York City Council is able to stop our operations, how will I and my fellow logistics business owners pay back our loans? While I cannot speak for everyone, a lot of us have personal guarantees to the SBA for loans we took to start our businesses, EIDL loans we took during COVID to keep our businesses afloat, bank loans, lines of credit and credit card balances to make sure our bills are being paid properly.

I will just finish with this. I own and operate a completely legal business in the state of New York with our own DOT number, carry every mandatory insurance, only have W2 full-time employees and pay all of our taxes as required by New York City, New York State and the federal government. What City Council is proposing is to make a draconian law that will force my legal entity to shut down.

(05:47:40)

Good afternoon, Council member. I am Ahmed Sharma. I am another small business owner. I am from New York. I operate out of the Bronx. The reason I got into business is that I came from a corporate world, but over there I felt like another drop in a big ocean. I took a pay cut, a salary cut, because I felt like I could do more with the community if I were a small business owner. The entire fabric of this country... New York City provides an environment for people like us to create opportunity. People like you provide us the power, give us the platform so that we can thrive on that platform and create an ecosystem. So this small business ownership is because of you, because of New York City, and that is how I was able to build this small business from scratch.

We have almost 125 plus employees and they are my team members. I have a role as an owner-operator. I have responsibilities, and each and every employee of my team has their roles and responsibilities. With this bill, it will entirely scrap that fabric. I will lose that connection. My employees will lose that connection. I humbly request that you please look into the technicalities. There are definitely areas of improvement and I am all for that, but please do not look through one lens. There are so many spectrums. It is one ecosystem of small businesses supporting so many other ecosystems of small businesses. In the Bronx, there is a shop, there is a mechanic who is tied to us, and there are so many people who are relying on us. So please, I humbly request you to look into the bill and the technicalities of that. I am hoping for the best. Thank you.

(05:50:05)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(05:50:07)

Okay. All right. Good afternoon. My position is opposing the bill. My name is Jordan Rodriguez. I am a Dominican kid born and raised in the Bronx by immigrant parents. I grew up in Section 8 housing in a household where my parents struggled to make ends meet. In 2020, during COVID, I started off as a delivery driver for a DSP. After a year I worked my way up to a manager position. By 2024 I was given the opportunity to start my own DSP in the Bronx. Today I employ 180 drivers, including my own father. My company is not just about delivering packages. We give back to our community, from back-to-school supply drives for

(05:50:57)

local schools to turkey giveaways to partnerships with organizations like Robin Hood and L'Oreal to donate hygiene products to homeless shelters. We also invest in our employees through Amazon's Next Mile program, helping them pursue higher education, and we open doors for those who need it most. I actively hire from workforce programs and homeless shelters, giving people a real second chance at stable employment.

And I want to be clear about something. Safety is not just a policy for my company or the fellow business owners. It is personal. We have dedicated safety officers within our organizations who started off as drivers, whose job is to train drivers and ensure they are operating safely every single day. My company alone has had zero work-related injuries in the last 18 months, because from my experience, as an owner who is present every day, I know how to keep my people safe. 75% of my fleet is electric, which also reflects our commitment to safer, more sustainable operations.

If the allegations being made about unsafe conditions were true, companies like mine would not even be in business. Our insurance, our ability to operate and our revenue are all directly tied to our safety scores and the condition of our vehicles. We are held accountable every single day. And let me say this: these employees need and appreciate having direct access to an owner, someone they call a brother, a mentor, someone who shows up. That is what we provide. This bill puts small business owners like me at risk. It threatens the livelihoods of nearly 45,000 workers across the five boroughs. I am living proof that this program creates opportunity, real opportunity for people from communities like mine. Thank you.

(05:53:02)

Thank you. And I just want to be mindful that we are going to get kicked out of here at 4:30. So we may be able to go across the street and get a room, but I would like to try to get through everybody if at all possible today. Thank you.

(05:53:14)

Thank you, Council members. Appreciate you listening to all of our opinions. My name is Ron Shaw and I am a first generation American, born in Queens, New York. I own a small delivery business in the Bronx where I employ over 80 W2 workers and I am here today to speak against the bill.

I believe I represent what many people call the American dream. My father came to this country nearly 40 years ago with very little. He worked two jobs, sometimes three, including working at the local bodega and doing whatever it took to build a life for our family. Through sacrifice, discipline and determination, he taught me that the American dream means working hard enough to one day build something of your own. I spent over seven years working at Amazon, working my way up from warehouse operations to running one of the top performing sites in the country. Eventually, I earned what is truly my dream job: a corporate role where I traveled across the country making operational changes that saved millions of dollars for one of the largest companies in the world. That dream job mattered. I worked extremely hard for it and I was proud of it. But what mattered even more was the people. The associates I worked with every day, the people behind every operation, were what drove me to go above and beyond. They reminded me that success is not just about numbers. It is about creating opportunity for others.

That is why I made the hardest decision of my life in my career. I gave up that dream job against the advice of my immigrant parents and risked everything to start my own delivery business in the Bronx. It has been the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. But it is also the most rewarding, because now I can directly impact the lives in my own community. This bill not only impacts small businesses like mine, it impacts the local bakery where I buy breakfast for my team, the local mechanic shops that keep my vehicles on the road and the many neighborhood businesses that depend on small operators like us every day.

And just like my drivers, I know these people too, all on a first-name basis. I know all my drivers by name and more importantly, I want to create real opportunities for them, whether that means helping them continue their education through tuition reimbursement, advance their careers or even take steps towards buying their first car. This is who you are voting against: real people, real families and real small businesses deeply connected to the communities they serve. Thank you.

(05:55:11)

Hello, Council members. Thank you for having us. My name is Lou Ahmed. I am a small business owner, a DSP, an ebike DSP. If Int 0518-2026 passes, small businesses across the city will not slow down or restructure, they will simply close. If we want to have a conversation about how we can move the needle on safety and some of the other topics discussed here, I just do not think it should come at the sacrifice of all these small businesses who have worked so hard.

I moved here from Louisville, Kentucky with immigrant parents and a pregnant wife. I left my job and I had to look her parents in the face and say, "Yes, I took your daughter to New York City from the suburbs to risk it all." And I think that is what the American dream is. I do not know why I am so emotional right now. I think it is just because we have put so much blood, sweat and tears into this. The ebike program runs from 2:30 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. While I was building my team a year ago, I was there those hours seven days a week. I got to meet so many great employees who are still with me today. Not all of them, but all of my non-driving employees have been promoted from within, with the exception of my HR manager.

I think this bill paints with an extraordinarily broad brush. It treats a complex, layered industry as if it were a single problem with a single fix. That thinking will produce consequences no one in this room has fully mapped out yet. Supply chains, employment relationships, community contracts, all of it is disrupted by legislation written as if none of that complexity exists. The damage does not stop at us. Mechanics and all kinds of local vendors, as others have spoken to, depend on DSPs as well. I came to New York with a dream. I thank you for your time today and I hope you oppose this bill.

(05:57:17)

Thank you, and thank you to this panel. I do not see any of my colleagues with questions so I want to thank you all for spending the time here. I am going to move on to the next panel. Ada Alcantara, Joselyn Vega, Don Cunningham, Don Mosley, Fuj Osam and Christine Chan. I might need more people. These are next. If any of those folks are here, please come up. If not, I want to get additional people on this panel: Timothy Dennis, Dale Gardner, O Lake Sander, Marlua, Tybran Barnes and O'Neal Washington. And one last one, Cosmo and Jen Hill, if you are here, please come up too. Just start with your name so we know who is here from all the names I read. Go ahead.

(05:58:34)

My name is Christine.

(05:58:37)

Press the button. It is red. Yeah.

(05:58:39)

I am a delivery service partner owner called Highgate Logistics, based in Harlem, New York. I am feeling very emotional listening to this testimony. I have been in logistics for 20 years. I love local logistics. I started off at 26 years old, not owning my own business but being a courier operations manager, and I kind of fell into the career. Even though I am a girl from Queens with a college degree, I just did not fit into a corporate environment as a gay woman in my twenties some years ago. I will not tell you exactly how long, not to date myself. I felt really out of place in a big corporation and the logistics industry really embraces people like us. I found a place leading and managing delivery teams and doing something I found very fulfilling. I really value my employees and growing and developing them.

I have been in this for 20 years and I think, again, I have heard from the testimony of the people that have been affected by poor safety standards at some of these businesses, and I am appalled by them. Because I think you have only heard from one or two locations. Let us face it, all the testimony has been coming out of one or two locations. There are over 50 last-mile facilities in New York City above a certain square footage. There are actually more than that where ours is very small, only 10,000 square feet, so you might not even be counting us. We have had hundreds of people here, employees who are passionate about the type of opportunities they have had working for small businesses, because we give opportunities. Most small businesses really need help, and college kids with fancy degrees are not going to come work with us. So it is a mutually beneficial relationship. We work with people who are appreciative and are hard workers and we develop them.

I have been doing this for 20 years. I just think it would be a shame because we were here during COVID. I was pulled out as an essential worker managing my team to make sure people got their deliveries. Now you are saying you want to outlaw my business. That is all I have got to say. Thank you.

(06:00:43)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(06:00:45)

My name is Danielle. I am here today because Int 0518-2026 would take away something I worked hard to build. Before this job, I was bouncing between DoorDash and Uber, logging on whenever I could just to try to scrape together a little money with no real stability. This job changed that. I started out on an ebike making deliveries. I worked my way up to dispatcher, then HR supervisor. That is not luck. That is me showing up every day and proving myself. I have three kids and this job fits my life in a way that most jobs never could. A flexible schedule means that I do not have to choose between a paycheck and being there for my children. Weekly pay means my bills get paid on time and real benefits that matter more than people realize when you are raising a family.

Let me tell you, Amazon actually does care about us. I know this firsthand. I had emergency surgery and I had the proper paperwork and I did everything right and UPS blacklisted me. My health crisis cost me my job. But here, my boss genuinely cares about me and she cares about every single one of us. I know without a doubt that whether I had emergency surgery or went on vacation, my job would be secured. That is not something that you take for granted when you have been burned before. During the past couple of snowstorms, Amazon shut down operations. Not because they had to, but because of safety. That is not a company that sees us as disposable. That is a company that sees us as people.

This is the longest job I have ever held. Let that sink in. Not because I could not keep a job, but because nothing else worked for my life until this did. And it is not just me. The people I work with every single day, they all come from somewhere. They all have a story. Single parents, immigrants, people rebuilding their lives. We found something here that works for us. And to everyone in this room, without us, you would not be able to get your last minute deliveries. We are out there every single day keeping the city moving. We help run NYC. Int 0518-2026 does not protect workers like me. It disrupts the very thing that is keeping us stable. Do not take the flexible schedules away, the weekly pay, the community and the opportunity to grow. For a lot of us, this is not just a job. This is how we survive.

(06:02:53)

Hello. I am here because I am really appreciative of what the DSP program has done for me. I am going to be open — I have autism. I faced a lot of prejudice trying to get a job. No one would believe in me. No matter where I would go, it was five, three months later, that is it. You are out. But these people really believe in me. I feel like they really care about me. I am a driver for Northstar Logistics. I really feel like we are a family. Every single morning, just seeing the same faces — we are not just a number. I am going to be honest: if we worked directly for Amazon, we would just be a number and they would not care about us.

I really feel Northstar Logistics cares about me because even when I was going through something — I was attacked on the job — they really comforted me. I was crying and I really appreciate what they have done for me. I do not even know where I would be. The experience they have provided for me has been a really big blessing. I probably would not have found that anywhere else. I just think they deserve to exist. I just have one thing to say, and that is...

(06:05:00)

...that I think we are painting the DSPs with a broad brush. Not all DSPs are bad. Some of them actually really care about us.

(06:05:09)

Thank you for sharing that.

(06:05:11)

That is all I have to say.

(06:05:12)

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

(06:05:16)

Good afternoon. Excuse me. Good afternoon, chair and Council members. My name is Tyrie Barnes. I am affectionately known as Ty Barnes. I am the owner of Northstar Logistics in the South Bronx and Timothy is one of my employees — actually, one of our favorite employees.

(06:05:32)

I am the son of...

(06:05:33)

What are you going to say? There were other people now. >> Well, I said one of them.

(06:05:39)

I am the son of teenage parents who...

(06:05:42)

...struggled in low-income housing. I have been a DSP owner for two years as of today, April 9th. Today is my two-year anniversary.

(06:05:50)

Congratulations.

(06:05:51)

Thank you. Hopefully we will be here indefinitely going forward. I operate a fleet of all-electric Rivian vehicles and have delivered over 4 million packages and smiles to residents of the South Bronx. Safety is our top priority and I employ my father, who is a retired MTA bus driver, to help train my drivers after the initial training with Amazon, as well as my operations manager. I do not support Int 0518-2026 and the delivery protection act. I am from the Bronx and I used my life savings for this opportunity to own and operate my DSP business in the South Bronx. I employ over 120 full-time employees, most of whom were hired through the Workforce One program. I provide health care, dental, vision, PTO, 401k with a 5% match, tuition reimbursement, four-day work weeks, guaranteed hours and bonus hours.

In addition, I am a resource to all my employees who want to apply for any full-time state or City jobs. I fully fund that out of my own pocket, all testing fees included, because I care about all my employees and advancing their careers, whether they are with Northstar or with any City or state agencies. As a DSP owner, I support my community by providing over 500 meals during the holidays. I support children with special needs by donating school supplies to District 75 schools, as they need the most resources. I know this firsthand because my son is a District 75 student. It is important to recognize the value of having a CEO of a small business who came from the same community in which the business operates. Many people cannot say that they have a personal relationship with the owner of a company they work for. I am an inspiration to my community, as they can put a face and name to the company and be inspired to become an entrepreneur as well through direct employment.

(06:08:03)

If you can wrap it up. Yeah.

(06:08:06)

I am just trying to do my part and make the City a better place. Thank you.

(06:08:11)

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

(06:08:19)

Hi. My name is Joseph Gatesy. I live in Manhattan Valley. I work in this city every single day. I am here to tell you that Int 0518-2026 would hurt people like me, not Amazon. I did not start where I am now. I started as a driver. I was behind the bike making those deliveries, learning this industry from the bottom up. Through hard work, real hard work, I worked my way to management. The DSP model made that possible. It gave me a ladder to climb when a lot of people in this city never even get shown where the ladder is. That is not a small thing. That is everything.

This bill would end the delivery service partner model by forcing companies like Amazon to directly hire every driver. When that happens, Amazon does not suffer. They absorb, they automate and they move on. But I am gone. My station is gone. And the next driver out there with the work ethic and the hunger to move up the way I did, that path is gone too. This bill forces last-mile facilities to either make massive operational changes or shut down entirely. I am not a corporation with a legal team. I am a guy from the neighborhood who earned his seat at the table one shift at a time. I am not here defending Amazon. I am defending myself. I am defending every driver who thinks about their future the way I once thought about mine. I am defending my boss, a great owner who has built something real, who does right by her employees and who deserves the right to keep running her business the way she has earned the right to run it. Do not close that door. Vote no on Int 0518-2026.

(06:09:58)

Go ahead.

(06:10:00)

Good afternoon, chairs and members of the panel. My name is O'Neal Washington and I am in opposition of this bill. I am not here today just as an operator. I am here as a voice for the men and women who have their jobs on the line. The same workers who carry this city through the toughest times. The same workers who show up in the rain, snow and heat. The same workers who do not get to work from home. Those are the people whose jobs and pay are on the line. Let me be clear today. This is not just policy. This is people's lives.

Every new restriction, every added cost, every decision made without understanding what happens in the field with DSPs — it does not hurt corporations first. It hurts workers. I have looked my team in the eyes. I have seen the stress. I have heard the questions: how am I still going to have a job? How am I still going to be able to provide for my family? Today, I should not have to stand here without answers for them. That is unacceptable. We as a team are committed to safety. We are committed to compliance. We are committed to doing our part. But we will not stand by while our workforce is squeezed out. So I am asking you directly: stand with the workers, not against them. Protect our jobs. Protect our pay. Because if you do not, real people will pay the price and that responsibility will not be invisible.

(06:11:25)

Thank you, sir. Go ahead.

(06:11:29)

Hi, good day. My name is Kosma Joyel. The name of my company is Chrysler Inc. I am an ISP with FedEx. I have been doing it since 2009. I started with just me and another driver, two trucks. I drove one, he drove the other. We have been doing this for years, delivering and helping so many different people, so many different cultures. There is no culture I can think of that has not worked with me from 2009 until now. Every nation has worked with me. There is no one we have turned away.

The beauty of what we do and what I like about our system is that we go into many different people's homes to deliver packages and there is always a background check. We do safety. Single women who live at home do not have to worry about who is delivering a package to their house because it is a requirement that we do a background check on this person. It is a requirement that we run their license. Those things to me are key to being a small business owner. If I know my child is home and a package is going to the house, I do not have to worry about who is delivering that package because I know a background check has been done on this person. In the times we are living in right now, that is very important.

Small business people like me, we help a lot of people. The same people who are picking up the garbage, who are driving the MTA buses — they came from us. We trained those people. We taught them how to drive until they moved up the ladder and went somewhere else. They are the ones picking up the garbage. They are the ones driving the grandmas and grandpas on the MTA bus. We are the ones delivering the medicines. We are the ones you can depend on.

(06:13:21)

Small business owners are needed in New York City. That is it. Thank you.

(06:13:29)

No questions. All right. Thank you all for being here. We will bring up the next panel: Ariel Mikit, Tyrell Brown, Sean Leverne, Charles Di Maria, Miguel Fcella, David Rodriguez, Isabelle Ayach, Mario Nicolauo and George Barrera. Is anybody else here who is on this list? Okay, you are not on this panel. Go ahead, gentlemen. You can just start, please.

(06:14:23)

This is it. Last one.

(06:14:25)

Good afternoon. We have one more panel after this. So you can sit down if you want. You are welcome.

(06:14:32)

Yeah, me too.

(06:14:35)

Go ahead. >> Go ahead.

(06:14:39)

Okay. Good afternoon.

(06:14:40)

Hey, put two minutes back up.

(06:14:42)

Thanks.

(06:14:43)

Good afternoon. My name is Charles Di Maria. I am the owner of Accelerated Flywheel Logistics. We are an ebike delivery company. We deliver throughout lower Manhattan. We deliver to this immediate area. I am here today in opposition of Int 0518-2026. I do not come from money. My family does not come from money. My father worked three jobs when I was growing up. My mother worked. I started working when I was 14. My path was not linear. I did not graduate college until I was in my 40s. I got my MBA at 46. I know what it feels like when your potential does not fit neatly on a piece of paper.

I started this company six months ago and right now I am here fighting for something that I am just starting. And that scares the heck out of me. My business is built on my values and it is here to prove that small companies can still be places where people are truly seen and invested in. Today, I already employ 150 bikers, dispatchers and support staff. They are all W2 employees. Every promotion we have already had is internal. Our team comes from the Lower East Side, Harlem, the Bronx and Brooklyn. We partner with the New York State Department of Labor, Workforce One, to recruit people who are unemployed, underemployed or in unstable gig work. Next week, we are even participating in a job fair with CM Hudson's office for graduating seniors.

What we are doing is helping people who large corporations will not look at. There was one time I was interviewing somebody. He was 20 years old. The resume said he had never had a job. I asked him, "Well, what do you do to get by?" He is a break dancer on 42nd Street with a troupe. In talking to him, I saw discipline. I saw teamwork. I saw resilience. I saw transferable skills. He works for me today. I hired him in November. Then there are other folks who, when they come in, are looking for predictable schedules. We have predictable schedules. We have PTO. We have benefits. We are hiring people that when they show up for an interview, they are showing up with a cart with everything that they own. Those we hire, we are helping them navigate the paperwork to get in and out of shelters. I also operate ebikes at 3:30 in the morning. They need paperwork to leave the shelter during off hours or to get back in. A large corporation and their email address to HR is not going to help them. They need the help of small business owners to get to that next step.

(06:17:18)

Thank you. I am trying to get one more panel in before we are kicked out. So I am sorry to be cutting people off, but if we can try to get through this so we can let everyone testify.

(06:17:30)

Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to share my voice. My name is Tyel Brown. I hail from Woodside, Queens. I am an operations manager at Accelerated Flywheel. This is my boss, Charles. My journey with the company has been remarkable, spanning from an initial role as a delivery associate to dispatcher and now my current position. Let me take you back to the first week of deliveries in October. There was one day the weather was below my threshold of tolerance and I vowed I would not do any packages past December. However, my first promotion came in November. In my eyes, this bought the company some more time with my services. As the new year approached, I realized I did not have to break the vow because I was no longer delivering packages.

Fast forward to February, when I was offered a salaried position, significantly altering my life's trajectory because now the job is serving me. As an entrepreneur of a micro business, this could be firsthand experience in running and operating a small business from the ground up. But more importantly, what truly captivated me was the community and the culture we had and my ability to make a real impact in mentoring and coaching people to be better workers and hopefully better people in life. I am proud to be a part of aiding in this work culture and inspiring comments like "this feels like family" or "I like learning about the business side of things" or simply "I actually like coming to work." Passing this bill will kill the real-life influence we have in people taking care of their families, gaining housing, staying out of the streets and just giving college kids what my papa would call some pocket change. Do not be the reason why the little guy loses. Protect small businesses, please.

(06:19:32)

Thank you. Go ahead.

(06:19:37)

My name is Ariel Mikett. I operate out of East New York, District 42. I have been doing this for about six years now. We have delivered approximately 15 and a half million packages to East New York, Canary, Howard Beach and our surrounding neighborhoods. The way that I look at my business at this point is it is no longer just my business. My employees are part of me. We are a family by now. I have been a therapist. I have been a pharmacist. I have been a support system. I have been a negotiator for car deals. I have been a negotiator for rent leases. I have helped people find real estate agents. I have bailed people out of trouble financially if they ever need a quick 20 or 40 dollars to get themselves a meal, pay for their cell phone bills, do whatever they have to do. That is the kind of person that I am and that is the kind of support that I give my team.

It is hard for me to point out a single moment, but there is never a time that I am not there for my team. If they ever request a flexible schedule, I am the first one to give it to them. If they come in to work and they say, "Ri, I need to be out by 3:00," I will be there to support them and try to figure it out to get them out in time. If they ever need a last minute call out, without question, without a doctor's note, without anything, I do not request any of that. I work with my team because that is the kind of environment I want to build for them.

Passing this Bill will not give them that opportunity. They will not be able to just call out like that last minute without repercussion. Even if they lied to me and said, "Yeah, I have a doctor's appointment," I still let them go. I do not question it. I give them the benefit of the doubt because that is the kind of relationship I build with my team. I do not question them. I do not need that problem in my life. I do not need that headache. Everyone has enough problems going on. I grew up in low-income housing in Coney Island. I know what it is like. I busted my chops getting to where I am now. Thank you.

(06:21:34)

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

(06:21:38)

Hi, my name is Mario Nicolau. I own and operate an Amazon DSP here in Manhattan, Upper East Side. I am going to take you back to April 2019. This was a time where, ironically, government shut down a business of mine, put me out of business and wiped out all my life savings. At that time it was very challenging. I hit a lot of financial struggles which led to a divorce and moving forward it just was a big struggle. Just after that, in January 2020, as I was pulling myself out of my depression, COVID hit, and that spiraled down to losing more income and it just became a significant challenge.

In March 2020 I applied with Amazon and I was given this opportunity, and this opportunity came at the right time. I was able to provide jobs for people. I worked every part of this business. I lived and breathed it. Blood, sweat and tears. I did every part of this business that you can do. I drove trucks. I delivered packages. I am part of the Walker model, as you are learning about. It did not matter what I had to do. I did it seven days a week, 5:00 a.m. till 10 or 11 o'clock at night, every day, seven days a week. I did this for over a year.

To answer the question that was danced around earlier on: would this impact the small business, and is there any protection in there for us? The answer is clearly no. There is no protection. And thank you, Christopher, for caring about us. I heard you care about the small business owner. I really appreciate that.

(06:23:48)

If you could wrap it up, that would be appreciated.

(06:23:50)

Sure. For my employees, I offer a pension plan with my company where they get a pension and everybody is entitled to it. 401k matching, health insurance, letters of recommendation, referrals. One of my favorite things to do is help somebody advance, double their income, give them a glowing review. One of the best reviews I gave was...

(06:24:19)

I just want, if there is something new, I do want to get to the people who are left.

(06:24:24)

I will just end with safety. Safety, safety, safety is our priority. Our metrics, our scorecard, is weekly and daily. We are monitoring it. I have a full-time employee that just does safety. 47.5% of our scorecard is safety. Driving the law, not anything extra. So as far as the metrics and the high standards, yes, there are very high metrics on safety. It is all about safety.

(06:24:53)

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

(06:24:54)

Good afternoon. My name is Sean Lawrence, out of Harlem, launched out of DY in the Bronx, New York. I am a proud representative of my Northstar family, the Northstar Logistics family. I currently serve as an operations manager. I am here to speak from both a professional and personal perspective.

Personally, working with Northstar Logistics has helped me take care of my responsibilities. It allows me to support my family in a meaningful way. That is important to me because providing for my children and making sure they have what they need always comes first. Having a stable opportunity like this has truly made a difference in my life. Northstar Logistics has also given me the chance to grow beyond just work. I am currently in college and through the tuition reimbursement program I am able to continue my education while working. That support helps cover my education costs and allows me to focus on building a better future for myself and my family.

I believe it is important to support companies like Amazon because they create real opportunities that provide jobs, educational support and financial stability for people like me who are working hard to build something better for themselves.

(06:26:20)

Thank you, sir. Go ahead, ma'am.

(06:26:22)

Hi, my name is Melissa Doss and I am the owner of Hems Delivery Inc., a FedEx ISP. Sitting here today, I realized there are many of us that care about our small businesses. Mine, I have had it for almost two decades. Started with my husband. We broke up and I continued it on my own. So, girl power to me, right? The biggest thing for me is making sure that my employees have a job. I want to make sure that they are able to put food on the table and I want to make sure that they are safe every day. We provide all of that. I have spoken in detail. I got the opportunity to speak to CM Cabán about it and I appreciate you taking that time yesterday. That was amazing.

A lot of the FedEx ISPs were here today but they had other responsibilities, childcare and all of that. There are about 111 of us ISPs in the metro. We follow certain protocols. We have obligations. We choose to partner with FedEx. I own all of my vehicles. I take good care of them. I have mechanics. I follow all the compliance requirements. All of my employees are paid wages. We have all of the insurance available to them including workers' comp and all of that. I want to email my testimony because I put a lot of effort into it and I want to give the rest of them an opportunity to speak, but I just want to let you know to consider the small businesses.

(06:27:45)

Thank you very much. Make sure everyone who wants to submit written testimony can do so at testimony@nyc.gov. If there are no questions, I want to get to our last panel so we can wrap up. Thank you all for waiting so long.

Richard Miller, Mitchell Newman, Julia Alvarez, Cadia Howell, Sarah Noor, Melissa Doss...

That was me.

Oh, that was you. Okay, we got you. Jorge Palada, Gregor, Roman Duckerman, Junior Tavarez, Melissa McCrae, George Cavayas, Michael Roman and Osama El Gabi. All right, these should be everyone who signed up to testify. If you can start, we can roll through this. Go ahead, sir.

(06:28:46)

Good afternoon, Council members. My name is Gregor Poleri and I stand opposed to this Bill. I came to this country with my family as an Albanian immigrant just a few years ago, carrying the same hopes shared by so many who arrive here: stability, opportunity and a chance to build something meaningful. After a long period of uncertainty and determination, I was given the opportunity in 2020 to become a delivery service partner. That moment changed my life.

Since then, I have had the privilege of building a business that has employed over 250 individuals, many with backgrounds like mine. We have been able to offer not just jobs but real opportunities: healthcare, retirement contributions and financial access to continued education. Beyond that, we have created pathways through our road to ownership program. Individuals who started at entry-level positions have gone on to become small business owners themselves. Some of them are here today, living proof that opportunity, when protected, can transform lives.

This Bill puts all of that at risk. What hangs in the balance is not just a business model. It is the future of hardworking New Yorkers, many of them immigrants striving to achieve their version of the American dream. It is about whether people like me, and those who followed a similar path, will have the chance to build, to grow and to provide for their families. I ask you to please consider the real human impact of this decision. Behind every number is a story like mine, one of sacrifice, resilience and hope. Thank you for your time and consideration. I trust you will make the right decision.

(06:30:24)

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

(06:30:30)

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for allowing me to speak today. My name is Jorge Palapa. I am the owner of Palapa Logistics, a new DSP that launched six months ago. I am 27 years old. I am from Sunset Park and I am a DACA recipient. I am here today in opposition to Int 0518-2026 because it will ultimately shut down my company that I just built and essentially deny the opportunities that I was given thanks to the DSP program and my previous DSP owner, Mr. Gregor Poleri.

I also want to say that I am grateful for the DSP program because, just like many New Yorkers who were lost during the 2020 pandemic, I did not know what to do with my life. Thanks to Greg, who gave me the opportunity to start his company with him, I started off as a Walker delivery associate and ultimately climbed and became a general manager and was given the opportunity to start my own third-party company. So I urge you to think about how this could impact many other people's lives.

(06:32:13)

Thank you very much. Go ahead, sir.

(06:32:17)

Hello. Hi, my name is Michael Roman. I am 37 years old and I have lived in the Bronx my entire life. I play a meaningful role in my community. I am committed to reducing gun violence in our communities. I believe the best way to help with that is to create opportunities. I am an operations manager for Northstar Logistics DSP and part of my job is the hiring portion. I am extremely blessed to be able to help people prosper in life, not only with a job but with mentorship, as well as tuition reimbursement and the opportunity to grow within the company. I am also truly grateful to be able to take care of my own family as well, not just financially but with time, love and affection. With the flexibility this job offers, we need more jobs like this, not less. Small businesses help people like myself still believe that there is a chance to become something. I hope one day I am able to start my own DSP and follow in the footsteps of my brother Tyrie Barnes.

Passing this Bill will leave thousands and thousands of us jobless and hopeless. I also just wanted to mention before my time is up, I heard there were a lot of questions here on the van situation and the metric situation. A lot of the people up here were not really telling the truth on it. Amazon created a Flex app, and in the case where a van is dirty, not working, or something is broken, you right then at that moment open the Flex app and choose those options so that you can ground the van personally. At that point it will come to a dispatcher and we will switch out the van. So a lot of these things that are raised as safety concerns, the drivers have the power to go ahead and ground a van personally themselves. To me, a lot of these situations are just being thrown out there. I just feel like not everyone is really following the rules of Amazon and Northstar.

(06:34:10)

Thank you, sir. Go ahead.

(06:34:14)

Good afternoon, Council members. My name is Roman Derman. I own Falcons Deliveries, a last-mile delivery company in Staten Island. We employ nearly 100 New Yorkers and every day we operate in some of the toughest delivery conditions in the country. I am here because I am strongly against this Bill. I want to be clear: this is not just another regulation for us. This is a direct threat to my business and everybody else's business here.

I came to this country from the former Soviet Union. My family came here for the opportunity to build something of our own, to work hard and succeed without excessive government control over how we operate. And this is exactly what I have done. I built this company from the ground up. I hire locally. I train my team. I hold them accountable. I take safety very seriously. This business operates and supports nearly 100 people and their families.

What concerns me is that this Bill feels like a step in the opposite direction. It takes the model that works — small business owners creating jobs and running their own operations — and replaces it with a system that removes flexibility and adds heavy oversight. It makes it extremely difficult for independent operators like myself to continue. The reality is that delivering in Brooklyn is not easy. There is no parking. Buildings are complex. Access is difficult. Safety challenges are real. We deal with this every single day. We do not need more layers to make it harder to operate. We need partnership and understanding.

I am all for safety and accountability. That is how I run my business today. But this Bill assumes small operators are the problem when in reality we are the ones doing the hard work. If this passes, it will not improve delivery. It will increase costs, reduce efficiency and push small businesses like mine out. I came to this country for an opportunity, not to see it limited by policies like this. I ask you to reconsider this approach and work with business owners like myself for real solutions. Thank you for your time.

(06:36:02)

Thank you. Go ahead, ma'am.

(06:36:05)

My name is Katherine. I am an operations manager for Falcons Delivery in Staten Island, operating out of DY6. I began my career as a delivery driver, working for multiple companies, always at a high level of performance. I joined Roman's team when he was operating for just two months. Roman was a delivery driver, operations manager, dispatcher and owner all in one. I have helped build structure and helped make my drivers feel supported and comfortable. We equip them with all their day-to-day equipment.

(06:37:00)

While I agree Amazon's regulations have room for improvement, I do not believe shutting down the DSP is the solution. If this Bill passes, it will not just affect my company. It will hurt my family, my friends and my drivers. These are real people who depend on their job for stability, income and their future.

(06:37:22)

Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

(06:37:27)

Hello. Thank you, Council members, for this opportunity. It is a great honor to stand before you. My speech is not going to be long. My name is Osama and I am a delivery driver. I work for Falcons Delivery. My experience started when I came here to the United States. It was not very easy to find a job. It is not easy to find a job at large companies because of the very long processes. Until I met my company's owner, it was very easy. It was two words: I am looking for a job, and I got it directly. After that I was trying to prove myself. I gave all that I could give to this company.

Even when I was going through a hard time and I was about to lose my job because my performance was declining, I found my company's owner — I call him my brother, not my boss — and he kept pushing me. He even told me that I did not need to give all my energy just to complete my job. He helped me until I reclaimed my energy and as a result of that I received the first professional achievement of my life, which is Driver of the Year. It was thanks to him and I got this opportunity. I did not want to miss this chance to be grateful and to say thank you to him.

(06:39:32)

Well, thank you all for testifying. I do not see any questions for this panel. Thank you for being here. I think there are a couple of people on Zoom. We need to check. Cassan Sadat and Kahum Robertson, are either of you there on Zoom? All right. And the last one I think on Zoom is Christopher Leon Johnson. If you wanted to start, you can go ahead.

(06:39:52)

Hello, my name is Christopher Leon Johnson. I am here to show opposition to this bill, and I am going to explain why. Because what is happening here is that this bill is really going to divide the DSP and the rank-and-file worker. You have to understand that the DSP are in the same position as workers because these are just regular people that feel like they want to make a better change for their life. And what is going to happen is that Amazon is going to retaliate. Look at what is happening with the deliveristas and the app drivers with Uber and DoorDash. There were many people that spoke even in support of the bill that used to work for Uber and DoorDash and Lyft, and they know how it feels to log into the apps knowing that they could be deactivated at any time.

Now with this bill, what is going to happen is yeah, this bill is going to go through because this is a majority City Council and Gilmore is behind this bill. Everybody knows how he is. But in the future there is going to be a lot of retaliation, not only against the people that work for the DSPs, but the members that are part of the Teamsters Amazon Labor Union. They are going to be retaliated against to where a lot of them will be losing their jobs. I am not keen on anybody losing their jobs at all, especially with apps like Amazon that will just get rid of you without a care in the world.

So as I said, I support the people, the rank-and-file workers for both the DSPs and the rank-and-file workers for the Amazon Teamsters Labor. Shout out to ALU. Shout out to Chris Smalls. Shout out to ALU. But I cannot put my hand on a bill or have any of my people supporting the City Council show support for a bill where the apps are going to retaliate. Amazon is going to retaliate. And everybody knows that Amazon will do what they want. They do not care. They could leave the city and they do not give a crap. They are not like people say, this is not Uber, this is not DoorDash, this is not Lyft. Just remember that. They do not have to do business with the city. They can just leave the city and they will still be a billion dollar company. Unlike Uber and DoorDash and Lyft, if they were to leave the city, they would fall apart.

(06:41:53)

Time is expired.

(06:41:55)

Thank you so much. Thank you.

(06:41:56)

Thank you very much and thank you everyone for being here for a very long day. This hearing is adjourned.