FY 2027 Executive Budget Hearing

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Good morning. Welcome to the New York City Council Committee on Finance with the Committee on Public Safety and Fire and Emergency Management. Please place your phone on silent or vibrate. Do not approach today unless asked. Any time during this hearing, Chair, we are ready to begin.

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Happy Monday morning, everyone. Good morning and welcome to the fifth day of our seven Executive Budget Hearings. I am Council Member Linda Lee. Today we will begin with the New York Police Department, followed by the New York City Fire Department. I am pleased to be joined by Speaker Julie Menin, my colleague Chair of the Committee on Public Safety CM Oswald Feliz. Today we have been joined by CM Marte, CM Cabán, CM Morano, and I think that is it for now. So welcome, Commissioner Jessica Tisch, and your team. Thank you to all for joining us today to answer questions. Before I go any further, I am going to invite Speaker Menin to share her opening remarks. Thank you so much.

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First of all, I want to thank you, Chair Lee, for conducting all of these budget hearings. I want to thank our Public Safety Chair, Chair Feliz, for your oversight of the Committee on Public Safety. Welcome, Commissioner Tisch, and everyone who is on your team who is here.

So, to keep New Yorkers safe, the NYPD has a planned budget that supports 35,379 uniform and 13,386 civilian personnel in Fiscal Year 2027. Today we want to hear much more detail about whether and how the Executive Budget gives the Police Department the resources it needs to continue its efforts. Under your leadership, the Department has overseen a recent period of significant decline in both murders and shootings in the City, which we are very pleased to see. There is still some troubling increases in other major felony crime categories, like felony assaults hitting a 25-year high, as well as increases in reported rapes. Reported hate crimes have also been increasing.

The proposed Executive Budget included new funding for the Department as well as transfers of funding from existing departments to create the Office of Community Safety. I am interested in hearing what, if any, programs are being shifted from NYPD to the new office, and if there are any changes to NYPD's community affairs work in anticipation of the new office's creation.

The Council is also interested to hear how decisions about resources and staffing impact crime levels, particularly with recent NYPD announcements about the summer surge, the division of the Bronx into two patrol boroughs and the introduction of 12-hour shifts for a majority of officers starting July 1. As always, recruitment and retention of police officers is also a prime concern. These issues are important to drill down on because, of course, the ability to proactively respond to the City's public safety needs is determined in large part by the Department's budget and the decisions on how to allocate resources. So we look forward to a very productive hearing and we want to thank you once again for being here and for your commitment to our City. Thank you.

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On May 12, 2026, the administration released the Executive Financial Plan for Fiscal Years 2026 to 2030 with a proposed Fiscal Year 2027 budget of $124.7 billion. The New York Police Department's proposed Fiscal Year 2027 budget, as the Speaker mentioned, represents 5.3% of the administration's proposed Fiscal Year 2027 budget in the Executive Plan. This is a decrease of 1.7% from what was originally budgeted in the Fiscal Year 2027 Preliminary Plan. This decrease results from several actions, mostly from uniform and civilian vacancy reductions and vehicle capitalization.

As of April 2026, the NYPD's head count was 1,500 less than their Fiscal Year 2026 budgeted head count. In the Council's Preliminary Budget response, we called on the administration to add units of appropriation for greater transparency into NYPD spending. In addition, we called on the administration and NYPD to utilize asset forfeiture dollars for eligible costs that expand investigative resources before calling on tax levy dollars. Although additional units of appropriation were not added to the Executive Plan, we hope the adopted budget will include them and we look forward to exploring how asset forfeiture can be used in the future. I now want to turn it over to my co-chair for this year, Council Chair Feliz, for his statement.

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Thank you, Chair Lee. Good morning, everyone. I am CM Feliz, Chair of the Committee on Public Safety. I would like to welcome everyone to the Fiscal Year 2027 Executive Budget Hearing. I want to thank Speaker Menin for joining us today. We will discuss the Fiscal Year 2027 Executive Budget for the New York City Police Department to better understand the administration's budget proposals for the Department that plays a crucial role in public safety. I am interested in learning about the changes in the NYPD's $6.59 billion budget and discussing issues related to head count over time, subway funding, school safety agents and crossing guards, technology to deter crimes such as the use of drones, and much more. I would also like to explore the Department's plans to ensure fan safety for big upcoming events like the World Cup and the Finals.

On the NYPD, we are thankful for the work and the sacrifices that police officers make every day to keep New Yorkers safe. Public safety, as we know, is a shared responsibility. We achieve it with good schools, good jobs and opportunity. Police officers play an important role in this. They help ensure that residents can engage in these activities — work, school and opportunity — without having to worry about their safety. We are thankful that their dedication to this City does not go unnoticed.

Yesterday, for example, I saw a video of police officers in the Bronx in the 48th Precinct running towards two individuals who had just engaged in gun violence. Police officers who ran towards danger and used technologies such as drones to quickly apprehend them. That incident serves as an example of how a strong police presence and technology such as drones can ensure that there is fast accountability — accountability that helps reduce crime. We also saw that same courage earlier this year when a police officer ran towards an ignited homemade explosive that was thrown to harm others at a protest, risking their own life without hesitation to keep others safe. Our communities are thankful for these police officers and we are all better off because of their hard work and sacrifices.

There are many important budget actions in this plan and we hope to better understand them and the impact that they will have on public safety. I look forward to productive conversations on what is working well — for example, murders being at a record low. We also look forward to discussing the areas that need attention, including the skyrocketing costs related to overtime — skyrocketing costs that are still going as high as almost a billion dollars, or specifically $955 million projected this fiscal year, according to a recent article by Politico, but of course we will hear the official numbers from the NYPD.

I also want to thank our Public Safety Committee staff for their hard work, our financial analyst Juan Coto and Kate Livesking, policy director Benjamin, committee counsels Jeremy Whiteman and Josh Kingston. I also want to thank my staff, my chief of staff and my legislative director and many others who have joined today. I would also like to welcome the NYPD leadership team of Commissioner and team. We look forward to the conversations today. I am going to pass it back to Chair Lee now.

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Thank you. Before we get started, I wanted to take a moment to thank the entire Council Finance Division, especially Jack Storie and Owen Gutowski for today's hearing, and of course our amazing committee counsel Brian Scarfo and senior adviser. As a reminder, for this year's budget hearings we will take public testimony for all the agencies on Wednesday, June 10, beginning at 9:30. So Wednesday, June 10, 9:30 a.m. Please sign up for public testimony. It is going to be a long, fun day so please join us. And now I will turn it over to committee counsel to swear in the witnesses.

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Good morning, Speaker Menin, Chair Lee, Chair Feliz and members of the City Council Committees on Public Safety and Finance. I am Jessica Tisch, Commissioner of the New York City Police Department. I am joined at the table today by First Deputy Commissioner Tanya Kinsella, Chief Michael Petry, Deputy Commissioner of Management and Budget Christina Ryan, Deputy Commissioner of Legal Matters Michael Gerber and Deputy Commissioner for Initiatives Alex Crone, as well as all other members of my executive staff seated here behind us.

Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the NYPD's Fiscal Year 2027 Executive Budget. When I appeared before this Council earlier this year, I said very clearly that the NYPD was focused on delivering results — driving down crime, restoring public confidence, strengthening accountability and making this Department more effective in every part of its work. Today we can show real progress. The seeds that we planted in 2025 have taken root. I feel like the proud mother of 35,000 members of the New York City Police Department, so allow me a moment to brag about their fine work.

For the first five months of the year, shooting incidents, shooting victims and homicides are all at record lows. The same is true for the month of May for both shooting incidents and shooting victims. Burglaries in New York City are at their second lowest levels ever. Now, I am a data-driven person, so here is some more of it. Through the end of our last CompStat report on May 25, major crime is down 6% citywide. Murders are down 25%. Shooting incidents are down 8% and shooting victims are down 10%. So far this year, NYPD officers have taken nearly 2,000 guns off of our streets. Robbery is down 11%. Burglaries are down 19%. Grand larceny is down nearly 5%. Auto theft is down 11% and retail theft is down more than 19%.

That progress is evident across the City. Retail theft is down nearly 30% in Brooklyn South, 26% in Queens North, 14% in Manhattan South, 14% in Brooklyn North, 3% in the Bronx and 10% in Queens South. In public housing, New York City is experiencing its safest start to the year on record, with major crime down 10%. Murders in public housing are down 43%. Shooting incidents are down 24%. Shooting victims are down 30%. Burglaries are down 19%. On the transit system, major crime is slightly below last year's level, and last year was already the safest year in the subway outside of the pandemic era since 2009. Unprovoked misdemeanor assaults in transit, importantly, are down 6% this year. In our school zones, school crime complaints have dropped 15% compared to last year and school arrests have decreased 4.8% compared to last year. In our parks, major crime is down 20% with 95% of parks recording no major crime. Hate crimes in the City are down 54% while arrests are up 8%. Nowhere is our precision strategy having a clearer impact than in the Borough of the Bronx, which...

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...is leading the City in crime reductions. In the Bronx, major crime is down 11%. Murders are down 10%. Shooting incidents are down 7% and shooting victims are down 8%. Gun arrests in the Bronx increased 23% since last year. Auto theft in the Bronx is down nearly 28%.

The progress is not limited to crime reductions. After experiencing a hiring crisis, we are also seeing a resurgence in policing as a profession in New York City. The Department outpaced uniform attrition in calendar year 2025 with 4,115 hires compared to 3,357 separations, and we are continuing to outpace year to date in 2026 with 1,084 hires compared to 896 separations. Actual attrition is down 4.7% this year compared to last year. We are also putting more officers where New Yorkers need them most. As of April 30, patrol strength, including precincts and field training units, is up 5.9% compared to the same point last year.

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And year to date in Fiscal Year 2026, answering delays at the 911 call center are down 84% compared to the same period last year. Our overtime management discipline is also producing measurable results. In calendar year 2025, overtime spending decreased 12.4%, or $143.6 million lower than in calendar year 2024. In the current fiscal year, overtime spending decreased lower than the previous fiscal year. That is the progress that we are seeing — lower crime, stronger operations, tighter management and a Department that is increasingly aligned around performance, accountability and public trust.

That is the overall picture, but numbers alone do not tell the full story of what it takes to manage the NYPD. When I appeared before you, I addressed several issues in detail, including bias crimes, our newly formed units, record hiring numbers, the Bronx borough split, our new in-service training models, immigration enforcement and federal funding. I will not rehash each of those topics today in my testimony in the interests of time, but my team and I are prepared to answer any questions that you have on those important topics.

However, before we do so, I want to address two areas that warrant specific attention. First is our review of narcotics operations, and then the extraordinary operational demands facing the NYPD this summer.

So first, our narcotics review. Our cops are asked to do an impossible and dangerous job. They are called into situations that are messy and complicated and fraught with emotion, regularly outside of their control. As Police Commissioner, I am proud of the work that our cops are doing. The vast majority of the men and women of the NYPD carry out this work professionally, lawfully and under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Officers are asked to make decisions in unpredictable situations while following detailed legal standards and Department procedures. Sometimes those situations require the use of force. When they do, there will be scrutiny, there will be criticism and there should be serious review of those incidents. My position has been consistent: when officers act within the law and consistent with Department policy, they will have my full support. When they do not, like what happened during a recent incident involving our Brooklyn narcotics team, there will be consequences. In that case, the officers involved were immediately placed on modified duty and they were stripped of their guns and their shields.

At the same time, maintaining public trust requires us to confront problems directly when we fall short of our standards. That incident raised serious concerns about supervision, about compliance and adherence to Department procedures. As a result, we made sweeping personnel changes within narcotics. More broadly, we launched a full review of narcotics operations across this Department. That 90-day review includes policies, procedures, equipment, compliance systems and supervisory oversight, because accountability cannot be situational. It has to be built into the structure of the Department itself. There will be scrutiny, there will be accountability and there will be changes.

Next, I want to turn to the summer ahead, because the next few months will place extraordinary demands on this Department. With this year marking the 25th...

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Anniversary of September 11. We are all reminded of a reality that the NYPD knows better than most: that New York City is not only a global hub, it is a global target. What begins overseas often finds its way here, and that truth shapes how we staff, how we train, how we deploy and how we build partnerships well beyond City limits. I began my career building out the NYPD's capabilities and in my 18 years in government, I have not seen a threat environment quite like this one, where multiple vectors were all active at the same time and where developments abroad can have immediate consequences here at home.

Last year alone, NYPD investigations led to more than a hundred arrests connected to foreign terrorist organizations, domestic extreme lone actors and other serious threats. Those cases spanned eight foreign countries and nine states. We saw that global threats strike close to home just weeks ago when the NYPD and our federal partners helped disrupt an alleged terror plot targeting a Manhattan synagogue. The defendant, a commander for Kata'ib Hezbollah based abroad, was allegedly operating out of Canada since hostilities began with Iran on February 28. This includes explosives detonated outside synagogues and Jewish schools, arson attacks targeting Jewish institutions and the stabbing of Jewish victims in London, one of them an American citizen.

He allegedly tried to bring that campaign here to New York City, sending identifying information about a Manhattan synagogue to someone that he believed would help carry out an attack involving arson or explosives. But he was actually communicating with an undercover law enforcement officer. The attack never happened because the threat was identified, monitored and controlled through the extraordinary work of the Joint Terrorism Task Force and the men and women of the New York City Police Department.

We saw it again when two men came to Manhattan with improvised explosive devices at a protest on the Upper East Side near Gracie Mansion. They lit and threw those devices near a crowd with the apparent intent to harm innocent people, and NYPD officers ran toward that threat, arrested them at the scene and helped prevent a far more serious attack. Those cases are part of a broader threat environment as conflict involving Iran continues to reverberate across the region and as the world continues to deal with the aftermath of October 7. Tensions remain high. We have already seen those tensions translated into violence, including here in the United States, carried out by individuals acting quickly and with limited coordination. As rhetoric from state actors, proxy groups and online networks escalates, it has the potential to drive action. That reality matters here in New York City and it matters especially as we prepare for an unprecedented series of major and overlapping events this summer: the World Cup, Sail to 250 and the 250th anniversary of our country.

Any one of those events on its own would be a major operation in New York City. Taken together, they place extraordinary demands on the New York City Police Department. That is why we have been preparing aggressively. The NYPD will deploy thousands of officers each day across the City to secure these events. That demand will be especially intense from July 1 through July 7, when several of these events will overlap and the operational footprint will be at its highest.

During this time our officers will be working 12-hour tours to accommodate operational needs and we are temporarily reassigning hundreds of officers from administrative roles back into the field to support summer deployments. This uniquely busy period will lead to an increase in overtime spend. However, the increase does not change our overtime management plan or our priority to ensure the safety of all New Yorkers while being responsible fiscal stewards. All of that comes on top of the full daily workload of the NYPD. We do not stop answering 911 calls because there is a major event. We do not stop investigating shootings and robberies and burglaries or other cases. We do not stop patrolling neighborhoods, subways or public housing. That is the reality of policing in New York City in a summer like this. The extraordinary and the everyday have to be handled at the same time and this department is preparing to do both.

Now turning to the Mayor's Executive Budget and its impact on the NYPD in the coming fiscal year. In totality, the NYPD Fiscal Year 2027 expense budget is... the vast majority of which, 91%, is allocated for personnel costs. The remaining 9% is dedicated to non-personnel costs, which include costs for technology that provides officers with immediate access to critical safety equipment, tools and applications. As part of the Executive Budget, $38 million was added to Fiscal Year 27 and annually in the baseline to support the department's new enhanced in-service training program, to ensure critical training is provided regularly and consistently across key areas. Funding was added in the baseline to enable the department to upgrade to Taser 10. This upgrade will allow for more precision and improved effectiveness when deploying this less-than-lethal device. In addition to the operating budget, the department's 10-year capital budget is $1.86 billion for Fiscal Years 26 through 35.

For the first time, the capital budget now includes funding for police emergency response vehicles. This is the result of a critical change to State Local Finance Law included in the State's budget, to allow for the capitalization of emergency response vehicles both marked and unmarked. Capitalization allows police emergency response vehicle fleet costs to be spread over their full useful life of a five-year period, avoiding a single-year budget impact. Furthermore, capitalization shields the purchase of police emergency response vehicles, which are critical for public safety, from the impacts of expense budget cuts, freeing up limited expense funds to be used for other needs.

NYPD, like all agencies, was asked to identify savings as part of the Executive Budget. The savings plan for the department for the Executive Budget included $65 million in savings in Fiscal Year 26, $84 million in savings in Fiscal Year 27 and approximately $80 million in savings annually in the baseline. These savings were achieved as a result of City-funded overtime reductions, uniform and civilian accruals, vehicle capitalization, IT license capitalization and telecommunications savings. The savings included civilian vacancy reductions as a result of reduction targets that were issued by OMB. As a result of these targets, the department's civilian budgeted headcount was cut by 517 positions. The civilian budgeted headcount reduction is comprised of a cut of 67 Police Communication Technician vacancies, 264 School Safety Agent vacancies and 186 non-safety civilian vacancies across numerous other civilian titles.

Annually, the department receives on average just over $192 million in federal funding, the majority of which is from the Department of Homeland Security. This year's federal Homeland Security grant funding has been cut by 40% from Federal Fiscal Year 2024 levels, with the NYPD anticipated to receive only $53 million. In addition, as a result of new terms and conditions placed on several federal grants, particularly related to civil immigration enforcement, there are numerous grants for which the department either did not receive funding or was advised by the Law Department that we would be unable to comply and therefore no applications were submitted. Specifically, the NYPD did not receive any FY25 Port Security funds despite the department receiving funds in prior years, and had to forgo other grants based on the

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required certification language. The maximum potential award amounts ranged significantly. We cannot overstate the gravity of this. It is not a bureaucratic inconvenience. It is a direct threat to the NYPD's ability to maintain and enhance critical counterterrorism and intelligence operations in New York City, the most visible terror target in the United States. People are alive today because of these grants. We must never lose sight of that. The time to act is now and I will not stop pressing this issue until the federal government restores the funding and the resources that we need to keep New Yorkers safe.

The through line of this testimony is simple. The NYPD is delivering results and we are building the capacity to sustain them. Crime is down across the City. Violence is falling. Public housing, transit, schools and the Bronx are all seeing enormous progress. At the same time we are strengthening training and improving accountability, managing overtime more effectively, hiring more officers, modernizing our tools and preparing for a threat environment unlike anything the City has faced in years. That work requires a budget that reflects the full weight of what this department is being asked to do. The men and women of this department meet that responsibility every day, on patrol in our subways and our schools, at protests, at major events, in counterterrorism operations and in every neighborhood. We are proud of the progress that we have made, but progress has to be protected and sustained. So thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My staff and I look forward to answering any questions you have.

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Thank you, Commissioner. I am going to pass on to Speaker Menin. Thank you so much.

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Commissioner, for your testimony. I know we have got a number of different questions, so I look forward to the dialogue on this. So first of all, NYPD's current actual uniform headcount of 34,497 is 1.5% less than the budgeted headcount of 35,025. Since the last time you appeared before us for the budget hearing, it is clear that the department has made progress in filling vacancies and hiring new officers and we commend you for that. How do you think about the connection between the department's staffing level and the progress NYPD has made to drive down murders and shootings?

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First, just some background on the headcount of the department. Actually, in this budget the NYPD has received 580 new police officer positions, bringing our budgeted headcount up to 35,555. That is something to be celebrated and that is something that we appreciate deeply, especially in a time of general need to cut. I will also say we have a hiring plan this year that should get us to our budgeted headcount of 35,555 by the end of this year. Last year was our most aggressive year in hiring on record and we are keeping our foot on the gas this year. We plan to do a significant amount of hiring. Last year we actually ended the year with 800 more police officers than we had over the previous three years. So the point is the size of the department has been growing over the past year and will continue to grow this year, and that is a very good thing for all New Yorkers.

Because to answer your specific question, the number of police officers we have is directly related to our progress driving down shooting incidents and shooting victims in this City. Shootings are one crime that you can really deploy for. We know where the vast majority of shootings in New York City occur. We know what times of day they occur and so our plan, the reason we have been able to drive down shootings as far as we have, is we deploy officers in those neighborhoods, on those streets, at those times. That plan has worked with tremendous historic success. Most of the officers who are working on those streets in what we call our zones are actually the new officers that we hired last year. They spend their first 18 months in the department learning those neighborhoods, learning those streets, learning police work and they have done an extraordinary job driving shootings down.

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Okay, so we have seen the work on that. Note that the department has joined to decrease shootings in the City, including getting guns off the street and the corresponding drop in murders. However, there has also been a troubling increase in other major felony crime categories like felony assaults, hitting a 25-year high as mentioned before. Other major felony crimes are also above pre-pandemic levels. Last year when you created the Domestic Violence Unit, the department stated domestic violence has remained a consistent driver of overall felonies, accounting for nearly 40% of these crimes citywide. With the increased funding and creation of the new Domestic Violence Unit, have you seen progress in driving down the concerning rates of felony assaults that are domestic incidents? And to that end...

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What has worked and what has not worked? Just to level set here, as I mentioned in my testimony, we have seen extraordinary crime declines across most crime categories in New York City over the past two years, but particularly this year. You are correct that rape is one area where we have seen that continue to go up and we can discuss the reasons for that. Felony assault, as of the last CompStat report, is basically flat compared to last year. But you are correct that that is an area where we have not seen the same types of crime declines as we have seen, for example, with shootings and burglaries and robberies and grand larceny.

The increase in felony assault, if you go back the last six years, because that is when it really exploded, has been driven by a few main things. The first, as you mentioned, is domestic violence. The second is assault on police officers and the third is assault on other public employees. Assaults on other public employees are up 200% in that time. Attacks on police officers are up 100% in that time. And attacks on... I am sorry, that category is up 50% in that time. So those are the three main categories where you are seeing huge increases in felony assaults over the past six years.

Specifically to address what we were seeing last year, at the end of last year the NYPD did a major reorganization of our domestic violence operations, basically to streamline things. We know that domestic violence is a recidivist crime and it is horrifying to be the victim of crime in your home, in your personal space. By streamlining things we had a number of goals, but among them to create a victim-centered approach where we were not having multiple different officers asking victims the same questions, streamlining the experience for victims and hoping that we can do a better job working with victims to actually deliver consequences for offenders. I am confident that that reorganization was the right thing to do. The other big change that occurred in the department as part of this is we created a special dedicated warrants squad for misdemeanors, where we have teams of people whose only job every day is to go out and find offenders wanted for misdemeanors. The hope is through all of this to drive down those crimes and in that way bring the level down.

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Okay, moving on to hate crimes. One concern I have is that hate crimes have jumped this quarter from 128 in the first quarter of 2025 to 148 over the first quarter of 2026, and CompStat shows the increase as well. So what do you account for the increase?

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Let me give you more recent numbers for hate crimes. This is as of the end of last month, so it does not include what we will report on tomorrow. As of April 30, all hate crimes citywide are down 5.4% this year.

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Hate crimes against Jews, or antisemitic hate crimes, represent 56% of the total. Antisemitic hate crimes are down this year 8.4%, again as of the end of April. In addition to that, and I think importantly, enforcement of hate crimes is up in New York City. Arrests for hate crimes in New York City this year are up 7.9% and arrests for antisemitic hate crimes are up 10.3% this year.

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And which metric are you using for the reporting of the antisemitic hate crimes? Because I know that was something we talked about.

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Yeah, we have always used for that type of reporting confirmed hate crimes. So we have two types of reports that we issue: confirmed hate crimes and also reported hate crimes, which we started putting out publicly. It has always been the case that when we talk about increases or decreases, we have always talked in New York City about confirmed hate crimes.

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Okay, moving to the Office of Community Safety. The Executive Plan included transfers of funding from existing departments and new funding to create the Office of Community Safety. Have any programs shifted from the NYPD's purview to OCS? And to what extent is NYPD engaged with the administration, and what specific roles and coordination will occur between NYPD and OCS?

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Those conversations have not yet commenced. So the administration's announcement of approximately $260 million for the creation of OCS... there have been no conversations with NYPD about the agency and who will be doing what.

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Not at this time. I believe... I mean, I expect that those conversations will begin to occur. But as I mentioned before in response to the last question, no programmatic responsibility is being shifted from the NYPD to OCS at this time and none that I know of going forward. So in your view, what will the purview of OCS be? OCS has many different offices, some of which have existed in this City for a while in other agencies, that have all been consolidated. I want to be clear: our work with those offices continues and so that work certainly has not stopped. To the extent that the NYPD has worked with those offices in the past, that continues to this day. But we have not had strategic conversations about what is going to shift from the NYPD to OCS because nothing is planned at this time to be shifted.

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So what about mental health calls?

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You know, the City has long had, I believe since the de Blasio administration, a program by the name of B-HEARD where you have mental health professionals working with you. You have one emotionally disturbed person who is both not violent and does not have any weapons. That program has existed for at least five years and that work continues.

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Okay, so I know my other colleagues are probably going to have questions on this, and I assume will as well, but it still remains unclear what the relationship between NYPD and mental health calls and some of the other programming is.

(00:40:05)

And as I mentioned, the City has long had a program where services are diverted away from police officers to EMTs and mental health professionals for them to respond. That program continues. I am not aware at this time of any changes to that program, but to the extent that there are, we will certainly let you know.

(00:40:38)

Okay, got it. Thank you. Overtime — I know you mentioned overtime in your testimony. Overtime at the department has been a concern, obviously, for a significant number of years. In fiscal year 25, uniform overtime was budgeted, but the NYPD spent significantly more. In fiscal year 26, NYPD expects to spend $955 million on overtime pay for officers, according to recent reporting. The budgeted amount for fiscal year 26 was initially much lower, meaning the department is on pace to exceed that amount by nearly 100%. The Council for many years has continually pushed the department and the administration to adjust the overtime budget to more accurately reflect spending. The Mayor's preliminary plan included a baseline increase in overtime for the coming fiscal year, but nowhere near the average $1 billion spend per year. So could you provide us with a year-to-date spending on uniform overtime and how this compares to last year?

(00:41:48)

A few points on overtime, and then our Deputy Commissioner of Management and Budget, who really knows this inside and out, will add anything I missed. First, I want to say NYPD overtime has never been realistically or appropriately accounted for in a preliminary budget, meaning the numbers that we get or that you see reflected in the first budget of the year — we know when that budget comes out that they are wildly unrealistic. This administration took steps in their first budget to correct that by adding a significant amount of funding in the last budget for NYPD overtime. That was a meaningful chunk of the problem. It did not address the entire problem, but it is the first time we saw a meaningful attempt to reflect more realistic NYPD overtime numbers in the past four years.

Second, if we take out the transit overtime program, which is net new and which the Governor pays for, and we put overtime over the past nine or ten years in today's contract dollars — meaning cops are paid more so overtime costs go up — in FY 26 we are projected to be below average for the past ten years. So I just want to make sure that that is clear.

(00:43:30)

Other information on overtime: in calendar year 2025, as I testified, overtime spend was down 12.4%. It was $143.6 million less than calendar year 2024. In FY 26, the first three quarters overtime spend is down 10% compared to the same period in FY 25. In FY 26, our full year projection is $91 million less than FY 25. Correct. And the FY 26 overtime spend is projected to be 6% less than the historical average.

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Okay, a couple of extra questions on that. So with increased initiatives for recruitment, can you explain how hiring to your full headcount would offset some of the overtime costs?

(00:44:38)

Look at what is going to happen this summer as an example. We are going to have to move to 12-hour tours for at least one week. We expect it to be from July 1 to July 7, and we may need to add additional days closer to the World Cup finals. We are doing that because we will take everyone — we have three different tours each day. We are going to take the first platoon, the first tour and the third tour will cover all patrol operations, everything in the middle meaning responding to 911 calls as an example. Everyone who works in that middle tour will have to be deployed for, you know, the events at the 50 and the World Cup, et cetera. So those 12-hour tours that we are forced to work July 1 to July 7 have a significant overtime impact on this department. So an example is that an increased headcount would offset that type of thing.

(00:45:51)

Thank you. I have more questions but I am going to pass it over to Charlie and I will come back on second round.

(00:45:58)

Thank you. Okay, great. I am sorry, just a clarification question. So the 35,555 officers that you were referring to — was that for FY 27 or FY 28?

(00:46:08)

It is in the budget for FY 28, but we expect to achieve that hiring at the end of this year.

(00:46:16)

This calendar year. Got it. Okay, so in the middle of FY 27. Okay. You sort of went into this a little bit just now, but the plan for...

(00:46:27)

This is about overtime funding with the State subway funding. The plan includes some funding from the State for subway deployments, but not the full amount. Is that correct?

(00:46:36)

We do 5,000 hours a day of transit overtime and we have been doing that. This is our second year of doing that and my understanding is that the funding the Governor has provided pays for it, but Christine can add to that.

(00:46:53)

Can add to that. Okay, and if you could just note how much was received or how much is expected to be received.

(00:46:59)

Christine will let you know.

(00:47:00)

Yes. So we expect and have been told we will receive $154 million from the State. Half of that is already reflected in the budget and we are working very closely with the State for the other half. But as the Commissioner said, it is currently covering an additional 5,000 hours per day, so that portion for the 5,000 hours will be covered by this funding for overtime.

(00:47:23)

Okay. And the department has implemented overtime reduction plans in the last fiscal year, which kept uniform overtime spending relatively flat compared to FY 24. So how do you utilize State and federal funding to offset the City funding for overtime, and have overtime reduction targets changed due to changes in State and federal funding?

(00:47:46)

So it actually depends. We cannot, you know, we are funded for the overtime — we cannot supplant with federal or State funding. But generally, for example, with the subway overtime, it is a great example of the fact that we worked in concert with the State to determine this funding is going to be available to us and what key things we can do with it. So the funding was sort of developed in concert with the increased deployments.

(00:48:09)

And at the preliminary budget hearing you mentioned the City not receiving some of the federal funding this fiscal year. Can you update us on some of those numbers and what areas have been affected by the loss of funding?

(00:48:20)

So I will just say today no operations, no areas have been affected. As I testified at the preliminary budget hearing, this will be a problem two years from now because we are still today spending grant dollars from previous fiscal years. So I want to be clear with the Council and with New Yorkers that this funding cut does not create an immediate threat — certainly not for the World Cup or this summer — but it does pose a sort of existential threat two years from now and it does need to be corrected. But as to the rest of that question, Christina...

(00:49:02)

So the cut for the Homeland Security grant funding is 40%. We had expected we would get about $89 million and we are getting only $53 million of that. As the Commissioner mentioned, the Port Security grant, which we have traditionally received — we did apply for that and we did not receive it. That is usually about $6 million. And then there were over a dozen smaller grants that we did not apply for. We would not have necessarily received funding for all of them, but they range from $200,000 to over $6 million. Had we gotten the maximum for all of them, it would have been about $19 million. Because of the existing terms and conditions and guidance from our legal and law department, we determined that we could not make those certifications.

(00:49:45)

Therefore, we did not apply. So as the Commissioner said, we were able to work within our existing resources now to make sure there is no impact on security and safety. But if this continues, and we hope that it does not, there will be an impact further down the line. And I will add our bread and butter — where we get the biggest amount of dollars from federal Homeland Security...

(00:50:08)

Grants — is called the Homeland Security Grant Program. That was slashed to what we expect to be about $53 million. That is a 40% cut on that bread-and-butter grant. The Homeland Security Grant Program funds things like our intelligence analysts, our counterterrorism deployments, our heavy weapons teams, our technology, our Domain Awareness System. That is the grant that we are most focused on. Earlier in the year, when then-Secretary Noem announced these cuts, we were hopeful based on some of the things that the President had said that that funding would be restored. Unfortunately, now that it is time to get the funding, we have not seen that restoration. Our hope is that somehow that money will find its way to New York City.

(00:51:15)

And what is Plan B if it does not? What are the contingencies?

(00:51:19)

In my opinion — and again, I said this is a problem not for this fiscal year but like one or two fiscal years out — I do not see how New York City does without the capabilities that these grants fund. So either we get this corrected with the federal government, which we should and I think needs to happen, or the City is going to have to pick up the tab. But from my perspective, cutting the intelligence analysts, cutting the Domain Awareness System, cutting the response units that do shows of force in front of, for example, houses of worship — cutting those things are nonstarters. So either the federal government pays up or the City is going to have to pick up the tab.

(00:52:11)

Okay. The executive plan includes savings of $9.3 million in savings related to overtime additions that were included in the preliminary plan.

(00:52:25)

So part of that savings actually did include a uniform overtime savings of $19 million on the City's side. The overall budget did include some additional federal funding, so we are still, as the Commissioner indicated earlier, achieving savings year over year on overtime through our management plan. The additional other savings were just rules as well as capitalization of vehicles, as the Commissioner mentioned.

(00:52:54)

We had the civilian savings that were taken that resulted in headcount reductions as well.

(00:52:59)

Okay. Thank you. For vehicle capitalization, the executive plan includes savings across FY 27 through FY 30 from utilizing capital funds instead of expense funds for vehicle costs. Could you explain what changes allowed these vehicles to be capital eligible?

(00:53:17)

Yes, we are ecstatic...

(00:53:21)

About this because the NYPD's fleet over the past few years has been in a state that is unacceptable, with an unacceptable portion of the fleet being either out of service or beyond its useful life or close to beyond its useful life. These vehicles are crucial parts of our operation and in my opinion it is incumbent on the City and on this department to keep them refreshed. Previously they had...

(00:54:00)

Not been capital eligible, so we could only buy new vehicles with expense funding. Over the past four years, I think with the exception of last year, the City continually cut expense funding as part of expense savings, resulting in shockingly few vehicles being purchased several years in a row, which really takes its toll. We needed a change in State law to allow our fleet to be capital eligible, both on the marked and unmarked side. We saw it as a no-brainer. We believed that our fleet met all of the requirements for capital eligibility in terms of, for example, a five-year useful life. We were thrilled to see in the Governor's budget the change to that State law that allows our fleet to be capital eligible. I just want to be clear — this is not just a good thing for this year. This is a good thing for every future year.

(00:55:13)

How did that change the procurement process, if at all, for the purchase of the vehicles?

(00:55:19)

The procurement process will remain the same. We just obviously have to go through the certificate to proceed process, which we have already commenced for next year so we can get the orders in as quickly as possible to continue to replenish the fleet.

(00:55:33)

And I will say when I speak to our officers about things that management can improve for them, the fleet comes up almost every time.

(00:55:45)

Yeah, perfect. The plan included a similar change for IT license costs. Can you explain the change there?

(00:55:50)

Capital eligibility versus expense. Go ahead.

(00:55:53)

Yeah, so there are just certain licenses — IT licenses tend to be an area where, depending on how long the license is going to last and actually what we are getting, there have been at certain times questions on whether or not certain licenses were capital eligible or had to be...

(00:56:09)

Operating funds. So working with our IT information technology team, we took a closer look at the licenses and determined that there were more that could actually be part of the capitalization process, and that resulted in expense savings.

(00:56:25)

Perfect. And are there any other areas of costs where similar changes can be made to swap expense funding for capital, or have you looked at all of them?

(00:56:30)

We always look at it. I mean, sometimes unfortunately — because of inflation, the silver lining is things become more expensive, so they have met all the other criteria but not met the minimum dollar value. So we are always looking to see if we can capitalize. Obviously we want to be efficient and responsible with capital funds as well, but there is a reason why there is capital funding to cover things that have a long useful life — you pay them over time. So we do maximize capitalization as much as possible.

(00:57:03)

Okay, perfect. And have you also looked at — I guess this is generally for overtime and other areas within NYPD, because I think I brought this up in the preliminary hearing — looking at technology platforms to figure out timesheets and updates, for example, that could help lower overtime or improve the systems within NYPD? So, you know, I spent a lot of my career building IT at the department and we are always interested in modernizing both our operational and administrative systems. I will say that we have been doing a lot of operational work in terms of IT development. We have a new 311 system for the department that is coming out now. We are digitizing the command log. We will look seriously at where we can put IT resources to update administrative systems as well. That is not a guarantee that it will be done, but I take the feedback and we will look for opportunities to do that.

(00:58:13)

Perfect. And in terms of the uniform civilian savings, the executive plan includes savings in FY 27. Our understanding is that these savings are usually taken from vacant salaries. Are you planning on not hiring additional staff? I know that you said the classes include an increased number of hires, so I wanted to know when you expect the next NYPD class and whether it will be a similar size to recent classes. Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, we are trying to end the year at our new authorized headcount. So we are going to be hiring approximately, I think just shy of 4,000 officers this year to get to that number, based on our expected attrition.

(00:59:09)

And those are savings. Those are not reflecting any delay in hiring. As you can imagine, when you have a workforce of over 35,000 people, we make assumptions about attrition — who is going to leave, at what salary. But over time, if more people with higher salaries leave for a certain period of time, or whatever the mix is, in addition to differentials and things like that, it can add up quickly. In terms of just the assumptions — this is what we assumed we were going to need to cover all the salaries for a certain number of people. Those same number of people can remain employed, but in terms of the assumption of who is coming on versus who is leaving at what levels, it is a mix and you can be off a little bit. It allows for adjustment. Sometimes it unfortunately goes the other way.

(00:59:56)

Right. So this is just reflecting where we are. And so I will add that if our assumptions are correct about how many resignations we will see and how many retirements we will see this year, then we should end the year at the authorized headcount based on the hiring plan. And of course, with the Council's help raising the maximum age for which someone can take the noble job of becoming a New York City police officer — so we appreciate that.

(01:00:26)

The Speaker had alluded to this question earlier, but I just kind of wanted to go a little bit further. As we know, a lot of the domestic violence work is now under OATH, and I know that you had said previously that the work that you have done with those departments will continue. I just had a meeting with the Commissioner of Gender-Based Violence last week or the week before, so I want to be clear that all of that work with all of those offices, including at the executive level, commissioner to commissioner, continues. Also, because I know that in order to report, they have to go through a lot — it is underreported, especially in communities of color and immigrant communities where there are different languages and cultural barriers. Are there folks within the precincts that would be able to provide language-specific assistance, aside from the language line?

(01:01:25)

Because I found that... which Alex? Do not answer that.

(01:01:32)

Part of creating the domestic violence investigators was to have investigators whose sole job is investigating domestic violence. That was not the case before — when you got a detective investigating a domestic violence crime, they could be investigating lots and lots of different crimes. So there was no specialization. We do our best to deploy people in communities who are able to speak the languages, and if we need to, of course we can borrow from one precinct to another if there is a real need there. It does come up from time to time. The inspector who is doing a brilliant job running our new domestic violence unit can add to that answer.

(01:02:05)

So in addition to just the officers there, we have the language line, but we also have crime victim advocates that work inside of the individual precincts. We work closely with the Family Justice Center, who has culturally specific organizations that we can always link our survivors to.

(01:02:24)

I just want to make sure that you all are in communication. I know some of the precincts overlap, and they are very good about working with the community groups.

(01:02:31)

One of the offices that we have the closest coordination with is the Office to End Gender-Based Violence. They are involved in the development of our training, in the selection of, and oversight of, some of our closest partners — even people who work within our precincts. So the coordination there has been and continues to be seamless.

(01:03:00)

In my last question, I will pause. I have more, but I want to pass it off to the Chair and other members. In terms of Be Heard, it is more of a comment, but do you have thoughts on Be Heard? I have lots of thoughts on Be Heard, as I know Commissioner... tough, CM Cabán has. In terms of the coordination, I think that has always been the frustration, as well as the fact that it is hard to hire and staff up for that. It is more of a budget question, which we will go into later this afternoon. But I just wanted to know, in general, for folks that are experiencing a mental health crisis — I know that we have 988 now, which hopefully people are utilizing. Are they using it? OK. I just wanted to know what the numbers look like there, in terms of if a call comes in to 911 and then how does that get transferred or referred, and how successful are those transfers?

(01:03:49)

So are you talking specifically about 988, or are you talking about Be Heard, or both? Both. OK, so let us start with 988 because I have the data on that. Between the program launch on April 14 of this year through April 30 — so all of my data here ends April 30, so for the first 16 days — 204 911 calls qualified for referral to 988 mental health resources. And then on Be Heard, let us see. So at 911, we get about... calls for service each year. Of those, emotionally disturbed persons, nonviolent, no weapons: 85,793. So of the overall calls for service,

(01:04:51)

approximately 2% are divertable to Be Heard. Now I will give you the numbers for this year.

(01:05:05)

So between January and the first four months of the year, there were 17,961 calls where Be Heard was requested. They responded to 1,411 of them, so that is 7.9% of the calls that they were requested to respond to. Is that a lack of teams that they have? Got to ask.

(01:05:42)

OK, I will definitely ask them. But the point is, the 911 call taker, who is an NYPD employee, determines that the call is eligible to be transferred

(01:05:58)

to Be Heard, and then it goes outside of the NYPD's

(01:06:04)

universe. OK. And then, let me ask you a different way. Have you seen that with the addition of Be Heard as well as 988, there are more successful incidents that are being diverted out that

(01:06:16)

have been successfully resolved? We do not see the outcomes of those calls right now. The diversion numbers are tiny compared to the overall volume and the overall need. So there are a lot of opportunities to improve, even without changing the criteria.

(01:06:43)

Meaning if the criteria remains emotionally disturbed person, nonviolent, no weapons, there is still a huge amount of room for Be Heard to respond to more calls. Yeah.

(01:06:59)

OK, I will pause there and pass it over to Chair Feliz. Oh, sorry. Before I do that, I just want to say we have been joined by Council Members Ariola, Hanks, Brooks-Powers, Deputy Speaker Williams, Council Members Dinowitz, Felder, Majority Leader... Council Members Brewer, Restler, Joseph, J. Sanchez and CM Mealy. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, we have a full house today. We have almost enough members to hold the Stated Meeting and have a quorum. A few questions...

(01:07:33)

I will start my questions on the topic of large-scale events. As we know, we are one month away from the World Cup, with increased tourism coming to New York City for the FIFA World Cup. There is a memo stating that officer shifts will be 12 hours from July 1 to July 7. How exactly will this work? Are they expected to work three days per week for a total of 36 hours, and then a shift of 40 or 42 hours? No. They will either work pre-tour or post-tour overtime. Importantly, for officers during that week, we are not throwing out their chart. They will continue to work their standard five days a week, just with four hours added either to the beginning or end. The Chief of Department is going to soon issue guidance to each bureau about how their 12-hour tours are going to work, meaning whether they are doing pre-tour or post-tour. Chief, do you have anything to add to that? OK.

(01:08:43)

All right. So five days a week, 12-hour tours. Five days a week, 12-hour tours. But in that time, we are doing things like canceling training. We are canceling all things that could otherwise be a drain on NYPD resources. We do not expect to be canceling their RDOs, their regular days off, as a practice — it may have to happen from time to time. Is this going to apply to everybody? For every officer, we are not going to cancel, for example, if they have holiday picks — they are not going to have to work when they were planning to be away. But it is going to apply to the vast majority of police officers in the New York City Police Department for that week, and perhaps for a few days closer to the finals, who will be asked to work 12-hour tours. That is from the rank of police officer on up to chief. So it really affects everyone. It is not a decision that we took lightly, or that I took lightly, but it is an absolute necessity for that week given the number of things going on in the City.

(01:10:05)

Approximately how many police officers would that apply to? So instead of "vast majority," would you say more than 80%? 80 to 90? But I do not want to give an actual percentage. What I can say is that the Chief of Department is going to issue guidance to each bureau, and once we have that guidance, we will let your office know what percentage it applied to and how much overtime is projected for that week of the World Cup.

(01:10:32)

Can you give the numbers for the World Cup, July 1 to July 7? Because, remember, we have July 4, Salute 250, which is like the President's military parade in New York City, the World Cup finals — all potentially overlapping events in New York City between June 11 and the nineteenth. Any one of those on their own would be a big deal in New York City. All of them taken together are unprecedented and are going to place unusual and, I would say, historic demands on the New York City Police Department.

(01:11:27)

So Christine, can you go through the July 1 to July 7 dollar value projection, and then also for the World Cup specifically?

(01:11:38)

So these projections are preliminary. For July 1 through July 7, our projection, order of magnitude, is that it will cost between $35 and $42 million for that period overall for FIFA and Salute 250. For this entire time of all of these overlapping events, we believe overtime is projected at about $73 million. On top of that, obviously there is equipment that the Department needs to make sure we are able to keep everything safe and secure and also manage the crowds. And then there is $6.5 million for drone equipment. So in total, the estimate right now is $92 million. The good news is that the budget that you have all looked at already accounts for, on the City side, about $50 million, and then there is another $21 million in federal funding, so there is $71 million that we are accounting for. All the federal funding is not quite reflected yet, but that does leave a shortfall of about $21 to $22 million based on projections. I will just add that the federal government and FIFA did not give us nearly enough money to cover the overtime bill for the New York City Police Department.

(01:12:59)

Christine, how much did they give us? $14 million?

(01:13:02)

So they gave us $14.6 million toward overtime and $6.5 million for counter-drone equipment. We are having conversations about potentially getting more, but that is not determined yet. It is going to be a rough start to the fiscal year for our overtime. Just remember that for next year's overtime

(01:13:22)

hearings. We will keep that in mind. Talk to us about the plan for fan safety at transit hubs and also watch parties.

(01:13:31)

So with all of these major events going on in New York City, there will be other joyful events going on around them. All of those events will require a police presence — for example, finals watch parties, FIFA watch parties, people taking the subway and using mass transit going to and from those watch parties, people going to the events themselves. Getting people to and from New York City to the World Cup as a whole is a big undertaking in and of itself. That requires security. They are going usually mostly by bus or by rail, and there is a big screening component and security component there. So it would be an understatement to say that we have been planning. We have been aggressively planning for so many different things that are occurring this summer — not just the main events themselves, but all of the festivities surrounding those events.

(01:14:43)

Remember, FIFA is an international name and therefore a target. So we do not look at FIFA as just a normal event in New York City. Both the FIFA tournament and the events surrounding FIFA in New York City — the fan zones, the watch parties — we all have to look at seriously through the counterterrorism lens.

(01:15:18)

How will the NYPD work with federal and state authorities to ensure participants are safe getting to and from the

(01:15:24)

Chief, do you want to talk through the buses and the trains and how you are coordinating with partners on that?

(01:15:36)

Sure. So on the eight game days at MetLife, we have identified four separate locations where over 200 buses will be starting in New Jersey, swept in New Jersey, with an NYPD presence to make sure that they are swept properly. Those buses then come into New York City. Obviously we are not able to park 200 buses in and around the identified areas, so we will start with 45 buses at a time. That footprint at those locations starts 12 hours prior to those buses being parked there. Obviously those locations have to be swept

(01:16:11)

by our counterterrorism team. The footprint has to stay there until the buses actually arrive. Each one of those buses has two assigned uniformed officers to continue to observe those buses and make sure that they are safe to go back into New Jersey. Again, very dynamic. 42nd Street will be the street that we will be using, and it will be closed to just buses and emergency vehicles going through the tunnel into New Jersey. As far as the rail, we have identified approximately — we think upwards of 15,000 people will go through Penn Station and then ultimately have to get screened to go again into New Jersey. So it is a huge undertaking. On top of doing all that, on the eight game days there will be numerous watch parties throughout New York City. We have gone from 32 teams to 48 teams and from approximately 150 games to 200 games. Every game that is being played will be front and center in New York City. As far as the rails, working with our federal partners and Amtrak, actually next week I will be chairing a meeting with the Northeast Corridor, from Washington up through New York City, with Amtrak and all our rail partners, to make sure that again it is seamless, it is safe, and the federal government, the state government and obviously the NYPD are working very, very closely together.

(01:17:58)

Thank you. Speaking about the World Cup and also watch parties, there have been numerous articles stating that public events, including World Cup watch parties on open streets, in plazas and parks, will be scaled back due to NYPD concerns. Is it true? Can one of you talk to us about some of the concerns, and also is the plan or the hope to have police presence at every single watch party?

(01:18:20)

My understanding is that the Mayor is going to announce a very robust set of watch parties for FIFA around all five boroughs, which will run the length of the tournament. We do have already announced the five FIFA fan zones, one in each borough. So my hope and my expectation is that we are going to have a lot of festivities in New York City around the World Cup. Obviously we need to celebrate. We need to celebrate safely. I already told you about the need to look at all things FIFA through a counterterrorism lens. That is what this Department is doing. We do not have unlimited resources and we also have a lot of other things that are occurring in New York City. You know, when a country hosts the World Cup or the Olympics, usually they cancel everything else going on in that city at that time. We did not do that in New York City. We are still having the Puerto Rican Day Parade, we are having the Pride Parade, we are having many or nearly all of the standard large-scale events in New York City this summer that we would have in a summer with none of these events going on. So I would appreciate it if you could think about the demands on this Department in that context. We would like to facilitate a lot. Perhaps we will not be able to facilitate everything, but there will be a lot of celebrating in New York City. Absolutely yes. And of course we are expecting there to be a lot of requests for permits for watch parties in communities.

For each city-sponsored event, the Chief and Commissioner have to put together a full counterterrorism package, because again that name, FIFA, comes with an elevated threat.

(01:20:40)

Yes, and of course there are a lot of agencies that play a role when it comes to issuing permits. NYPD plays a big role in reviewing and issuing them. What are the factors that the NYPD will consider when determining whether to issue a permit for, let us say, a large watch party on Fordham Road?

(01:20:55)

So whether we can do it safely — which means does the footprint make sense, can we secure it appropriately with blocker cars, because we do not want cars driving into these watch parties either on purpose or by accident. We have seen vehicle ramming attacks across the city. Do we have the resources available? For example, are there several other watch parties going on in the same precinct at the same time? The main thing is, are we able to ensure a responsible amount of security at the

(01:21:38)

event? What areas are more likely to receive approval for a watch party? I am sure doing a watch party out of a park would be much easier to secure. You know, it is more difficult otherwise. Usually it is. That is

(01:21:53)

true. Each permit application we review based on the specific details. So how big is it? Where is it? Is it in a heavily trafficked area? Is it right near a subway station? Does it run right alongside a busy corridor where a vehicle can just come right up into it? There are so many different factors that we look at. What you need to remember is we have a day in New York City where we both have a potentially finals game in New York City and a World Cup game in the New York-New Jersey area. So we also have to look at what else is going on in the City that day.

(01:22:49)

All right. Thank you for the information. So I will ask some questions about the overtime issue and then I know my colleagues have a lot of questions. So I will pause there. Can you repeat the numbers related to overtime for the last seven fiscal years? And for these questions, just focus on the fiscal years because, of course, calendar years are very different from fiscal years.

(01:23:10)

So for fiscal year 26, the first three quarters, we are projected to be down...

(01:23:17)

...10% in overtime spend.

(01:23:23)

About total, not just the first two quarters — total.

(01:23:26)

We are in the last quarter now.

(01:23:32)

Right, but projected for the full year — no projection is...

(01:23:37)

...which is $91 million less than fiscal year 25, the same first three quarters. Sorry — which is $91 million less than fiscal year 25. So the full year projection is $1.13 billion, $91 million less than fiscal year 25. For the first three quarters that have been completed in fiscal year 26, we are down 10% in overtime compared to the first three quarters of fiscal year 25.

(01:24:12)

If you...

(01:24:12)

...take out the transit overtime, which the Governor pays for, and you put overtime spend in today's dollars, meaning in today's contract dollars — how much the cops are paid — the fiscal year 26 overtime spend is projected to be 6% lower than the historical average going back to 2016.

(01:24:39)

What has been the total overtime budget since — let us take fiscal year 2020, all of the fiscal years since 2020? Yeah, I can get you that. I have it here.

(01:24:49)

It is this chart here. Christine, right? Yep. Those...

(01:24:51)

...are the adjusted values? Yep. You go ahead. Yeah, so...

(01:24:54)

...going back to fiscal year 2020. So if you look at again excluding transit, it was a billion in fiscal year 20. Including transit — well, transit was not really a factor that year, so...

(01:25:12)

...it was basically a billion in fiscal year 20. Fiscal year 22 was $576 million, but that was basically because of the pandemic, so that is really an outlier. Fiscal year 22 is $918 million. Fiscal year 23 was $1.047 billion. Fiscal year 24 was $1.155 billion. Fiscal year 25 was $1.120 billion. Fiscal year 25 is when transit started, correct?

(01:25:43)

And so if you take transit out, which the Governor pays for, then fiscal year 25 is $954 million and the projection for fiscal year 26 without transit is $862 million. Correct. So...

(01:26:01)

...I know it is a big spend for overtime, but I just want to make sure that the members of this Council understand that structurally, if you look at historical spending totals, the numbers here seem more reasonable than they otherwise would.

(01:26:21)

Yeah, and that was my next question. Why are we still spending a billion dollars in overtime? I mean, I know all of you continue to mention that the previous administration had an anything-goes system. They...

(01:26:32)

...there was, and that is why — yeah, there was.

(01:26:34)

If I could just finish. And there were also about 4,000 new officers added last year, which exceeded attrition rates. So I am just curious why we are still in the ballpark of $1 billion. This is something that we do not see with any other agency.

(01:26:50)

Yeah. So the officers that were added last year — the reason we hired 4,000 of them is because 20 years ago we had hired a huge number of officers. So we hired over 4,000 officers last year to make sure that we kept up with attrition. In fact, we beat attrition by a few hundred officers, which was a minor miracle. But I do not want to give the impression that we ended the year up 4,000 officers. We ended the year up several hundred officers, which is the first time we ended the year up for many years.

At the same time, it is the case that before I got here, the department did not manage overtime in any meaningful way. To me it looks like when I showed up there was an anything-goes system, and the executive team here, under the Deputy Commissioner of Management and Budget's leadership, have put in what I think is a very responsible overtime plan that has delivered meaningful results — a 10% decline in overtime in fiscal year 26, 12.4% in overtime in calendar year 25 — and we will continue to do that.

(01:28:15)

As to the question about why overtime is required, I think we need not look further than what is going on this summer and the previous questions you just asked. Are we going to be able to have all of these watch parties? Are New Yorkers going to be able to celebrate? And the answer is yes, we are going to do a lot of celebrating, but that celebrating needs to be safe. In order for it to be safe, we need to make sure that we have officers there and that we have thought through all of the security requirements.

So for things like special events, that requires overtime. For protests, things that are unexpected, that requires overtime. Sometimes, for example, if we are seeing a gang war in a neighborhood and we say the officers on Saturday night usually end at — I am making this up — at one in the morning or midnight, and we want them to stay on post until two in the morning because we want to make sure that we curb the gun violence. Those are examples of things that we would use overtime for.

(01:29:25)

Absolutely. And yes, this is a very busy city and New York City will always have large-scale events, sports events, parades and more. Of course we need and appreciate the police presence at these events to make sure that people are safe. But the big question, the big point here, is whether there are any measures that we can take so that we could have that police presence — let us say, for example, by increasing headcount — and not have to continuously rely on a billion dollars of overtime.

(01:29:57)

Having more officers this summer would definitely decrease the need for overtime this summer for all of these special events and, in my opinion, could have an overall general effect on overtime. But those are budget decisions that the Council needs to make in coordination with the Mayor and his team. I am doing the best I can with the officers that we have, and I am very pleased that so far this year, in his first month, the Mayor has given us over 500 additional officers budgeted for the New York City Police Department — 580.

(01:30:50)

Brief question on headcount. So the headcount is 35,000. What percent of this 35,000 are patrol officers versus community affairs and any other units?

(01:31:03)

I have that — hold on one second. Oh, here it is. Our patrol staffing — I am very pleased to tell you — is 888 officers as of April 30 this year, 880 officers over what it was the same time in 2025. So we have nearly a thousand additional officers on patrol now if you compare April 30 of this year to April 30 of last year. Our number right now, I believe, is 15,749. I want to be clear those numbers include our evidence collection teams and our domestic violence units. I will explain why.

Historically, last year and the year before and the year before that, those two teams were part of our Patrol Services Bureau, so they were included as part of the patrol headcount. They have been moved now to be under the Detective Bureau, but they perform the same functions that they performed when they were under Patrol Services. So I am giving you an apples-to-apples comparison.

The Bronx is up 250 officers. I know you care about your borough — thank you so much for that. We will take more. I am about to get more. That is the great thing about all the hiring we did last year. Now we do 18 months of training for these officers before they go on the street, and as they hit that 18 months they go into precincts where they are responding to 911 jobs. So every few months now, precincts across the City are going to see an influx of new police officers on patrol, and it is something we can enjoy for the next year and so long as our great hiring continues.

(01:33:11)

Thank you so much for that. We are absolutely seeing the results. I have been around a few incidents and the police response has been at the speed of life, so that is something that we appreciate. And we welcome a few more questions about the issue of overtime. What are the top three things that lead to overtime? I am sure large-scale events is going to be something big.

(01:33:31)

Do you have that, Christine? Yeah, so it is investigations. Basically the other categories are roughly even — arrests, operational crime reduction and then, of course, we have our transit safety as well.

(01:33:49)

But the two largest areas are investigations and events. All right. Just two more questions, then we have a lot of colleagues who have signed up for questions. A question about officer deployment — approximately how many officers do we have for a large protest versus a smaller protest, also large school events, and also for parades — smaller parades versus a larger parade? What is the ballpark? It really runs the gamut.

(01:34:19)

It just varies so much that it is hard to answer that question. I can answer it. Let us just look at yesterday's parade. So yesterday's parade — and this is total uniform members, so I am not separating out our teams or auxiliary service — we had over 3,000 officers assigned to that detail. Again, we look at security risks, we look at past incidents not just in New York City but across the world, and we also look at how many people are expected at those events. So a lot...

(01:34:58)

...of times it could be hundreds of officers but many times it could be thousands of officers.

(01:35:03)

And the same is true for protests. It just really depends on how many people are expected to go to the protest, where the protest is, what time of day, what else is going on — all of those factors.

(01:35:15)

I will also just add that the tiered system that we have in the protest element speaks to this as well. So everything that the Chief of Department was just saying, the Police Commissioner was saying — and one thing that has been a product of the protest settlement is thinking through: okay, how many officers do we actually need to do this responsibly, appropriately, consistent with the settlement? I think that has actually been a real benefit of the protest settlement.

(01:35:43)

All right. Thank you for the information. Final question before I pass to my colleagues on the issue of overtime. I am sure there are a lot of ways that we could get to overtime. A police officer has to work a few additional hours after their shift. They can also do overtime during what they call their regular day off — they are often called to work. What percentage of overtime hours are worked by officers already working versus those that are called in on their days off? We are going to have to get that to you. We do not have that data right here, but I think we can get that number for you.

(01:36:25)

Okay. Thank you. So I am going to pause here. Can we get that? I know you have your team here — we could get that for my next round.

(01:36:29)

That would be... I do not think budget will get it over to your office, but she has got to do a little work to get that number out. Oh, hey, thank you.

(01:36:41)

Okay, perfect. So we have the Deputy Speaker, followed by a Council Member. Hello, Commissioner. Just a quick question about something in your testimony around hate crimes. You had mentioned that it was down 5.4%, but we saw some reports that show a jump to 11.8% and that rapes are also up. So just want to know if you can explain the differences between your testimony and some reports that we saw that say...

(01:37:10)

Yes. The reports that you saw referenced the numbers at the end of the first quarter of the year — so January, February, March. The numbers that I gave account for April as well, and so it changed, you know...

(01:37:28)

Hate crime is a terrible thing, but these are smallish numbers compared to overall crimes. So a few crimes can make a big difference in terms of up or down.

(01:37:43)

Thank you. Just turning to questions on the racial equity plans that you put forward. I have been asking all City agencies about their racial equity plans, especially during budget hearings, because we hope that budget allocations are being appropriated to fulfill some of the goals. So one of the goals of the NYPD is to enhance the hiring process by removing unnecessary barriers, bringing greater fairness to decisions and ensuring qualified candidates are not excluded by the system. This is listed as a short-term goal to be completed by 2026. Has the department done a review of the hiring process? What was the outcome of this review and is any funding in this budget going towards recruitment and hiring?

(01:38:26)

So there have been many reviews of the hiring process, but not one that particularly looks at equity. So the hiring panel is convening over a period of about a hundred days. It had its initial meeting last month. It is a collection of experts — academic experts, members really across the board — to give us their best thoughts on how to improve that process. So we had our initial kickoff, we should have our next meeting I think in just a couple of weeks, and then we will have a final meeting at the end where the recommendations will come out. There is no funding allocated just for the study. That is just being done with in-house staff.

(01:39:02)

And just to address the last part of the question — a lot of the success that we had in hiring over the past year and a half has been driven by our fraternal organizations. Those fraternal organizations going out into their communities, educating people about the work of police officers. A year ago at this time we could not find enough candidates to take the job. Our actual headcount was well below the budgeted headcount, and I give the work of those fraternal organizations a lot of credit for getting people interested in the job.

(01:39:52)

Thank you. Another goal is to increase representation in specialized units by 2028. Which units currently have the lowest levels of diversity? I have to get back to you — we can get back to you with the diversity by unit. Okay.

(01:40:12)

Just turning over to some district-specific questions. So I appreciate the Q teams. I visited each Q team in my district — we love them. But...

(01:40:23)

...some of the things that I see, specifically around illegal parking and making sure that these precincts have the resources to remove trucks and address a lot of the overnight commercial vehicle parking in residential neighborhoods. So just wanted to know specifically about the transportation division and the budget there. Which division is the...

(01:40:47)

...chief? So what I want to say on that is I think the paradigm that this department has used forever on towing makes no sense. The precincts that have heavy towing needs should probably have tow trucks assigned to them and people trained in how to use them assigned there as well. That is what makes sense to me. Council Members always want to give us funding for strategic things, and I think that if we can reorganize appropriately that might be a great new way to address some of the acute towing problems that we are seeing in specific precincts...

(01:41:35)

...including in yours. Yes, I love the idea. I know all of us in Southeast Queens would definitely allocate. Let us have conversations about how we can make that a reality. I think that will be more meaningful than talking about how much money is assigned to the Transportation Bureau, but Christine has that for you — $212 million. Okay.

(01:42:04)

Great. Thank you. Just a final note — since we met with you, the work still continues. On 10 dates we had, we wrote 259 summonses, 51 tows so far and 51 boots also. So the work will...

(01:42:21)

...continue. Okay. Thank you. Just one more question about my favorite division in the Police Department, which is the Community Affairs Division. I would love to see — every year I ask for an increase — because there are amazing community affairs officers. One precinct, they are doing a whole dance recital, and they do the best that they can. They raise money inside of the Police Department, they externally ask for resources. But I feel like when I think of community policing and what we all want to see from the Police Department, I feel like this is the unit that does that work and I feel like they just do not have enough. I would love to see them have more money. The game truck breaks down, the rock wall — there is only like one rock wall. I would love to see a rock wall in each bureau. I mean, this is just my yearly plea: please give more to the Community Affairs Division.

(01:43:14)

I hear you on that. One thing that we have done — and this was at the request and advice of virtually every precinct — is that for years, community affairs officers reported to a centralized Community Affairs Bureau, which basically meant that the precincts lost their right-hand person, particularly the right-hand person for dealing directly with the...

(01:43:50)

...because that person no longer reported to him and her. As of this year, I was very pleased to reassign community affairs officers back to their specific precincts, and I think that that has and will continue to go a long way. There are still many community affairs officers that are centrally assigned under the Community Affairs Bureau, but I think restoring that function under patrol has led to some very positive outcomes, and I am getting positive feedback on that from many of your colleagues, but just as importantly many precincts. We have also been...

(01:44:38)

...joined by CM Banks, and we will go with CM Cabán, followed by Wong.

(01:44:44)

Thank you. As always, I have lots of questions, so I am going to ask that you all be as concise as possible. I am going to start with just some money numbers. Can you tell me, fiscal year 2026 to date, the money spent on the Quality of Life Division? You could break that down to money spent on the QT Stat, and then just a projected budget for fiscal year 2027 for those. Christine has that for you, so I actually have to get back. She was going to break it down by each bureau by spend to date, so I will get back to you.

(01:45:18)

Okay, that would be really helpful. Are you tracking complaints in civil suits based on that particular division's enforcement, like CCRB complaints and civil suits?

(01:45:35)

Yeah, and civil suits. So the question is, do we sort of have a separate tracking system by division? I mean, we can only pull that data. There is data that we can get, but I do not think that we are tracking it in that way today. Okay, so I want to move on to different questions. I think the request is: can you pull the data on that and provide it to the Council in terms of the complaints and civil suits coming out of the Quality of Life enforcement? For sure. Great. Thank you.

(01:46:01)

Out of the Quality of Life Division. The Quality of Life Division. Yes.

(01:46:06)

Commissioner, what evidence does the NYPD have that increased arrests for low-level offenses improve public safety outcomes? To be clear, we are not looking to increase arrests for low-level offenses. We give our officers a huge amount of discretion. Discretion starts with engagement. The Quality of Life Division was certainly not created to increase the number of low-level arrests. Commissioner, that is not my question. I just want to redirect for a second. What evidence does the NYPD have... because we have seen in prior...

(01:46:50)

...where you have testified in others. I do not have evidence of it, because that is not a stated goal, so I would not look at that. The stated goal of the Quality of Life Division is to address the explosion of quality of life complaints that we have seen across every precinct and in every community in this City, and as a partner in public safety. What evidence do you have that addressing broken windows offenses, low-level offenses, improves public safety outcomes?

(01:47:20)

I told you I am not interested in going back to broken windows policing. Okay, look...

(01:47:30)

Okay, so I will say... can I just finish up? You can have more time. What I am looking to do... Chair, is that okay? I think I could use even more time, maybe. Like another minute. Thank you. Okay. What I am looking to do is address the explosion of 311 complaints that we have seen across every community in this City, and those complaints differ community to community.

(01:48:00)

Thank you. So what I want to say about this is that either our goal has to be improved public safety outcomes, or answering 311 complaints simply because you get them. What I think is important for us to analyze here is that there has been a 20-year meta-study analysis showing that the relationship between disorder, crime and using resources for broken windows policing was generally disproved. Even though you are saying it is not a stated goal, we have seen the Data Collaborative for Justice, over a four-year span from 2021 to 2024, saw a sharp upsurge in arrests for low-level charges. A Gothamist article talked about a 3,000% increase in arrests for lying down or taking up more than one seat on the subway, and that at this point in the year, court cases for that offense in particular are already exceeding the pace of last year. So I just... those things do not make sense to me in terms of either improving public safety or doing things that are data-driven to improve...

(01:49:01)

...public safety, or just going to answer 311 calls simply to answer them and not improve public safety. But I want to ask this and then I will go to a second round with my questions. What is the total annual cost to taxpayers of processing low-level arrests through the criminal legal system compared to issuing summonses or utilizing diversion programs, while pointing out that one way to reduce overtime is to stop dragging people through the system for taking up two seats on the subway? You can get information about the budget for our Criminal Justice Bureau, which is where we would spend money on processing arrests. Farah...

(01:49:38)

Chris, can you do that? Yeah, so specifically the ask would be: what is the cost to taxpayers of processing low-level arrests compared to the cost if those were handled through issuing summonses or utilizing some other diversion program?

(01:49:53)

So thank you, Council Member. I will say, if we are talking about low-level offenses, the vast majority of the time, if we make an arrest for something that is otherwise summons-able, it will be for one of two reasons. Either we cannot properly identify the person, making them ineligible for a summons because a summons means nothing, or there is another warrant that is outstanding that they have not responded to for some other offense. That is about 6.6% of those. So the vast majority of the time, that person is wanted on an open warrant for some other crime. Can you give a percentage to that? How many of those are... if we are talking about the majority, it is well over 50%, though I do not know that that is accurate.

(01:51:01)

So in transit, when we do have to make an arrest, again, it is as the Commissioner stated, 6.6% of the time. That is because we were not able to properly identify them. The remainder are either because the person has a warrant and we have a legal obligation to bring them back to court, or they are being arrested for a higher-level offense in addition to that.

(01:51:18)

You are saying that those are the only two other reasons? Correct. Okay, can I follow up on this? Not identifiable, wanted on a warrant, and third, being wanted, or if you are being arrested for a higher-level crime in addition to the lower-level crime. Okay, one more follow-up. Then we have got to move on.

(01:51:36)

It is not... I have a line of questions. I am just responding to that because... Council Member, we can sit together for as long as you want and go through any questions that you have on this.

(01:51:45)

Sure, I know, but I actually think that there is a lot of value in not just doing it sitting in a meeting, but doing it in an open hearing with the public so that they know how their money is being spent and what outcomes they are getting or not getting, and what we should be able to expect.

(01:52:00)

I will pass it off to you, but I have a second round just specifically on that.

(01:52:05)

Thank you. Okay. Wong, followed by...

(01:52:11)

CM Wong. Okay. Thank you. And thank you to the Commissioner and the men and women of the NYPD for testifying today. Before my questions, I want to recognize...

(01:52:24)

...some excellent work by the NYPD. My office, with CM Ariola's office and community members, became aware of social media posts promoting a planned takeover at a local mall. We immediately shared that information with the NYPD. Queens Borough Chief Russell Green and Captain Rios took the intelligence seriously and acted quickly, deploying a significant police presence around the mall for a few hours. The mall was very well secured. It worked and the takeover never materialized. When organizers began directing participants towards Middle Village Playground in my district, my office again alerted officers, who responded quickly and prevented any disruption before it could occur. Because of proactive policing, nothing happened.

(01:53:24)

That is exactly what residents expect and deserve. I also want to thank Inspector Wang with the 110th Precinct for his work addressing quality of life concerns, including issues surrounding the Amadeus Nightclub, illegal car meetups, loud music and other persistent neighborhood complaints. I also want to thank Captain Fantasia of the 112th Precinct for addressing recent antisemitic vandalism affecting the communities in my district and CM Holman's district. I appreciate the work these commanders are doing to keep our neighborhoods safe, address quality of life concerns before they become larger problems and maintain confidence in public safety.

With that, I have a few questions. Is there a department policy against publicly disclosing precinct-by-precinct staffing levels, and if so, what is the rationale? Because my constituents regularly ask about these figures and there is nowhere for them to be published. So the way the Council set up the law, we have various disclosure obligations across a wide range of staffing that we are required to disclose, except to the extent that it would endanger public safety or endanger our officers. We provide a very wide range of data regarding staffing and deployment. However, as it gets more and more granular and more and more specific, we do get more and more concerned about the safety aspect. If bad actors know precisely how we are staffed at a very granular level, that allows them to make strategic or tactical decisions that can be incredibly dangerous for the public or for officers. So that is the balance that we are constantly striking. I do want to emphasize that the City Council set up the law in this way for maximum transparency consistent with public safety and the safety of the officers.

(01:55:36)

Which is why when we talk publicly about staffing numbers or report staffing numbers publicly, we do it at the borough level. But when you have asked in the past, and other colleagues have asked in the past, about staffing numbers or concerns about staffing, we are very transparent with you in those discussions, take the feedback and then assign officers accordingly. Okay, thank you. Recently, as the weather gets warmer, we have a big problem about bikes being driven on the streets and in parks in my district. The question is: is it legal to operate a dirt bike on a public street or in the park, even for minors or adults? No, it is not.

(01:56:28)

What about for dirt bikes? Okay, thank you. If it is an unregistered dirt bike? No, it cannot be on a New York City street.

(01:56:39)

Thank you. I would like to have more questions for round two. Perfect. Thank you.

(01:56:43)

Thank you, CM Ariola, followed by CM...

(01:56:46)

Joseph. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you for always coming fully prepared and for testifying with full transparency and clarity. We really do appreciate that. Many of us here want to see more resources, and I am hearing you saying we are getting them, so that is what we are here for. As far as numbers, you had them categorized by borough and how crime has decreased by borough, especially retail crimes in specific boroughs. Do you have that drilled down as far as Council districts? Because oftentimes we get calls in our Council offices and people say, well, we cannot even live here anymore, we are ready to go. But we want to be able to tell them, you know, your numbers... I will have the numbers by Council district. I do not think that would be at the precinct level. That is actually a really good idea about how to get more granular than just borough level, and we can try to provide that. Yeah, so this is a way we can fight back any narrative that says crime is out of control.

Because I do love the Q Teams, I love our community affairs officers. I agree that we need more of them. I am so happy that you are open to that in some of our areas. The other thing is, you said that a lot of your funding comes from federal grants and you are going to continue to fight to get those federal grants, but there is some language that precludes you from being able to apply for those grants. I can only imagine that that includes working fully with federal law enforcement agencies. A lot of it is that the problematic language for us conflicts with the sanctuary city law. Correct.

(01:58:34)

So how will you manage that? I will navigate that when there is a conflict, because you certainly need that funding. So there are two separate things going on. The first are the grants, which tend to be the much smaller grants. They do not represent a majority of the counterterrorism grant funding we get, where we have that conflict with sanctuary city law and we are not eligible to apply. The more meaningful chunk of money is not about eligibility or a conflict between sanctuary city law and eligibility requirements. It is the Department of Homeland Security's allocation levels to New York State, which were dramatically cut under Secretary Noem, and we were hopeful that the President would overrule that. Unfortunately, we have not...

(01:59:34)

...seen those dollars yet for federal fiscal year 2025. Thank you, Chair.

(01:59:42)

Great. CM Joseph, followed by CM Hanks.

(01:59:48)

Thank you. Hi, Commissioner. Always good to see you. Hello. Correct me if I am wrong: youth arrests for major felonies have increased in each of the last fiscal years, while at the same time major felony crimes in schools are relatively flat over the period. How can we improve those stats? You know how I feel about that. What other agencies and programs can the NYPD reach out to that would be great...

(02:00:12)

...partners? Hold on. Someone is explaining to me the first part of your question. Okay, sorry. What is the second part of the question? How are you working with other agencies to make sure we are bringing down the numbers among young people...

(02:00:26)

...that we are seeing in these cases?

(02:00:29)

Alex is going to answer the first part of the question after he was just... after he had it explained. All right, so I can answer the first part. Sorry, there are a lot of different things going on at once. All right, so arrests in schools are actually down. This year they are down 4.8%. So we are seeing both less crime and less arrests in schools at the same time.

(02:00:50)

But how are you also working in collaboration with schools? For example, I know before there was a division working on school safety. We lost a young person, 14 years old, to subway surfing. At the last hearing that I had here with Transportation, NYPD and New York City public schools, the interagency... these are conversations that all agencies should be having. So where are we on that in terms of collaboration and working on all of these things?

(02:01:17)

Collaboration with DOE. I hope if you ask them, they will say the same thing, but...

(02:01:21)

...from our perspective, the collaboration with DOE specifically has never been better. I will let Tanya speak about the work that we are doing with DOE, and then I want to speak a little bit about the work we are doing with them on subway surfing. Go ahead.

(02:01:34)

Okay. How are you doing? I am good. So we work with our DOE partners really well.

(02:01:43)

You facilitated that whole thing, you had the first meeting. Yes. 65% of incidents...

(02:01:49)

...that occur in schools are now handled by us. We meet with our DOE partners on a monthly basis. We also meet with the advocates on a quarterly basis to try to work with the advocates and DOE so we do not have to arrest...

(02:02:08)

...and have them take on more of...

(02:02:10)

...the incident. So you are working interagency. So you are working with Project Pivot, who is on the ground, which is the Cure Violence groups they have in schools, in 323...

(02:02:18)

...hundred and 51 schools. Project Pivot, is it?

(02:02:23)

We provide support in those schools during the times that Project Pivot is going on. Okay. And your crisis intervention team training, the numbers I was given are for uniform...

(02:02:34)

...members in communication skills. Of course. So...

(02:02:39)

...we have approximately 3,384 personnel trained...

(02:02:48)

...in de-escalation, which we started...

(02:02:51)

We receive a couple of calls around your metal detectors not working at schools and students being late. How are you addressing that?

(02:02:58)

We know of three incidents that occurred this year thus far, but the school safety executive leadership responded and spoke to all three principals.

(02:03:10)

We now have an in-house training of our agents to help mitigate if a scanner breaks within 10 to 30 minutes. We have agents rectifying the issue, and there is now a direct notification and investigation done once we are aware that a school is late because of scanning issues or personnel issues. Based on the feedback that you have given me about this specific thing in the past, I am pleased to tell you that we have ordered 40 new scanners to replace some of the old equipment that we have, because it is not acceptable to be late for school because of scanning issues.

(02:03:51)

And we received 10 of those scanners on Friday, last Friday.

(02:03:56)

Okay, good. And then what is the timeline to put them in place, or are they already in place?

(02:04:00)

We are working on that now with a deal. We are working with Mark and our executives in school safety to figure out where exactly they are going to go or be replaced.

(02:04:13)

This Council had passed the Bill for 988 to be in New York City public schools. How many calls do you get from young people? Can you track that? We would not have that data.

(02:04:21)

You would need to ask 988, the people who run that, because all we do is transfer the call. We do not collect the demographic data.

(02:04:30)

And how many mental health related calls where this training would be applicable, if you were to do it? You can get health related 911 calls. Yes.

(02:04:42)

And we will get you the number of mental health related calls at no additional cost.

(02:04:47)

Yeah, I know that in the first 15 days, 204 calls were transferred to 988, but that is nowhere near the total number you are asking for. The total number of any mental health call we get...

(02:05:00)

And then as my colleague had mentioned earlier, it would be great to look at the breakdowns per Council district in order for us to work better with you, probably provide more resources and provide more support to you.

(02:05:11)

Thank you. I will come around in my second round. Thank you so much, CM Joseph. So it is 12:10. We are going to take a brief five minute recess. See everybody at 12:15. Thank you so much. Please just five minutes. It was 12:10. I will see everybody at 12:15. Thank you.

(02:05:46)

Yes, please. How are you doing? Good. Oh, hi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know. Way transit, 50%... right, 42%. I have all the time. Let me get... it is really good. I do not know. Thank you. Good, right? Okay. I think we are going to get started.

(02:10:48)

Everyone, please find your seats. We are getting ready to resume the hearing. Thank you. Please find your seats. Okay, great.

(02:11:19)

So we are going to resume with CM Hanks and then CM Brooks-Powers. Thank you, Chair. It is good to see you, everyone. Commissioner, I just like to circle back to the Office of Community Safety and just for the record, can we... whatever you know... I understand there is a list. I do not have that list. So you do not have it. Okay. So as a holistic structure, it is still quite big. What this is...

(02:11:56)

Does NYPD have any idea of what they would want to partner with or need support with, or any gaps that would help define this?

(02:12:09)

As I mentioned, we do a tremendous amount of work with a lot of the offices that have been moved under the Office of Community Safety. Gender based violence is a shining example of that partnership and that work continues.

(02:12:28)

I think the mental health crisis in New York City is definitely an issue that affects the New York City Police Department profoundly. So I would look forward to working with the Office of Community Safety to understand ideas that they have for addressing it. Thank you so much. I will have a line of questioning that is a bit more local.

(02:12:59)

So the Borough Patrol, Staten Island, is funded in the FY27 Executive Plan down from the adopted level, primarily in the precinct headquarters at 78 Richmond Terrace in St. George, with parts in the 120th and 121st. Why does the Borough Patrol Staten Island fall below the FY26 adopted level in the Executive Plan and what does it mean for authorized officer counts at the 120 and the 121 precincts?

(02:13:38)

So as I mentioned, we did a real reorganization of department resources last year to better streamline, for example, our response to domestic violence and also to make our evidence collection teams work more closely with our crime scene unit. In doing that, we moved those two units from under the Patrol Services Bureau to the Detective Bureau. Those movements happened across the entire department and they certainly did not take resources away from community members. It just looks on paper like we have taken resources out of patrol, but those functions still remain, just assigned under a different command code.

(02:14:29)

Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, CM Brooks-Powers.

(02:14:33)

Thank you. And thank you, Commissioner. I first want to thank you, Chief Gordon Ryan, for bringing the team back out when we unfortunately lost 18 year old Brandon Figueroa at Far Rockaway. It was meaningful. The mother was definitely appreciative and hopeful that the body that came up yesterday is Brandon's body, but we know that you are still maintaining regular communication with us. So thank you for that. Absolutely. I also want to thank Chief Williams and her division for the work that they have been doing, including Police Officer Marion Manic, who has been amazing since your visit to Southeast Queens regarding the truck parking in Southeast Queens. It has been tremendous. That makes me so happy to hear.

And then I am going to just ask you three questions. If I need to repeat anything, let me know. So first, Southeast Queens has seen a surge in gun violence in the last few months, including the tragic shooting of a 15 year old in the Deputy Speaker's district, which is a neighboring district to mine. As summer approaches and our youth are out of school, how is NYPD prepared to prevent these types of tragic shootings from happening in the first place? Often these violent outbursts are the result of organized takeovers that spread on social media. I am curious to know how the NYPD is detecting the social media trends and getting ahead of potentially violent incidents, and how NYPD is communicating to the local precincts when viral social media trends pop up in specific geographies.

Then, from the end of December 2024 to October 2025, the city admitted on average 49 more people to jail each month than it discharged, increasing the jail population by around 500 people. As we approach the transition to borough based jails, our City must work to reduce the incarcerated population. I wanted to know how NYPD specifically is working with the Department of Correction, the DAs, and other agencies to work toward common ground and ensure we can successfully close Rikers. So just wanting to know that coordination is happening there.

And lastly, we have consistently heard from committee members and local precincts that police officers are not aware of local laws regarding the truck routes, truck idling and other truck related matters. The result is that there is no consistent enforcement against trucks breaking the laws. What steps has NYPD taken to ensure that all police officers are trained on this issue and able to enforce traffic laws against trucks that are not compliant? I will give you an example. We did a walk through and there was a truck that was idling on Springfield Boulevard and we had a local officer there as well, but it was clear that it was not clear in terms of how long that truck was able to legally idle in that location.

(02:17:54)

I will start with that one first and then you have to remind me about the other ones. If there is a precinct where we have to do specific refresher training on specific laws like truck idling laws, we are very happy to do that and to do that quickly. So my team can connect with you to understand what the very specific issue is and you have my commitment that those officers in that command will be refreshed in those issues.

(02:18:28)

You asked, I think, your second to last question. Working backwards here, it was about Rikers. I will just be blunt. The NYPD does not control the size of the correction population or the Rikers population. That is a matter specifically for the Department of Correction. We do not enjoy arresting people, but we will take action when there is a crime committed. So my hope and my expectation is that the City will account for that in their planning for correction capacity.

(02:19:25)

Because I think we are in alignment in not necessarily wanting people who should not be in custody to be in custody. It is more in terms of looking at those low level offenses that I think you mentioned earlier that could be a summons, for example. But understanding that coordination, because we are seeing an increase in the arrests that are happening and we are not seeing that revolving door for those instances where there could be summonses or at low levels.

(02:19:59)

We are seeing increases in arrests where you are seeing arrests for something that would otherwise be summons-able, generally in three areas. One, the person cannot be properly identified, which is out of the officer's control. If the person cannot provide ID or the department cannot properly identify them, they are not eligible for a summons, no matter how low the offense is. If they are able to provide it, oftentimes they are. Second is if they are wanted on an open warrant that they themselves have not responded to and are required by law to respond to. If we come across them for a low level thing, we will arrest them and return them to court to deal with that open warrant. So I just want to be clear, I reject the narrative that the NYPD is on a spree of arresting people for low level offenses when the actual data shows otherwise.

(02:21:14)

I think going back to the first one, it was more centered around the takeovers and the social media efforts. I know the department has technology and they are viewing different social media platforms to try to stay up to speed with what is happening with young people. But I wanted to know what that coordination with the local precincts looks like so that...

(02:21:36)

We can be more proactive in responding. The Chief is going to take this one, but I just want to say social media is driving right now two big things that I know are of particular concern to many of you here: car meets and teen takeovers, which are exploding across the country and I expect only to get more intense as school lets out. We monitor social media for both of those things, but your question is specifically about teen takeovers and the Chief will let you know how we approach those and how we coordinate with the local precincts on them.

(02:22:23)

Good afternoon. So actually the local precinct is the first line of defense when it comes to monitoring social media. We have field intelligence officers assigned to all 78 precincts across New York City, our housing commands and also our transit commands. There is a centralized social media team out of our Detective Bureau, but also out of our Intelligence Bureau. But it starts with the local precinct. So if a field intelligence officer is monitoring social media and spots something in Far Rockaway, he or she, through our system, will share that intel not just locally but citywide. We are very good at monitoring the platforms that we need to look at and that is real time. We do not wait. That gets sent out immediately and everybody is always working together. We have gotten very, very good with the car meets and also the teen takeovers, sharing that intelligence. One of the four principles, actually two out of four principles, of CompStat is timely and accurate intelligence and rapid deployment.

(02:23:34)

And that is a staple of the New York City Police Department. I just want to add on your last question, so I lost the forest through the trees for a second. Low level arrests do not end up in Rikers. You end up in Rikers for a felony. So low level arrests are not driving the Rikers population.

(02:23:55)

So those at Rikers are there for a felony. I know CM Cabán is going to probably dig more into this later. I am not going to take up more of the committee's time on that. I do want to thank you for your responses and just make a plug for the 101st Precinct in terms of capital needs, because that precinct right now is highly dilapidated and under-resourced.

(02:24:21)

Thank you, Chairs. Okay, we have CM Felder. Next we have CM Brewer, followed by CM Restler.

(02:24:43)

Okay, CM Felder, go ahead. I apologize because I am going to be leaving for an appointment, not in the brain that Dr. teaches them, so I am sorry. But I do not want you to answer my questions right now. If somebody could call or let me know afterwards, I would be very happy. First of all, I want to thank your colleague here who spent hours at the hearings on antisemitism listening to questions and answering them. I have never ever been at a hearing when someone did not say once, when I was awake, "I will get back to you on that question." I never saw that in my life. I think there is something wrong with them. I think you should check it out.

Okay, in terms of my questions, if somebody could just let me know: number one, I would like to know in terms of community policing, if somebody could let me know if there is a particular person that is assigned to the district. I do not know how exactly it works.

(02:26:18)

I would like to know who that person is so that I could call.

(02:26:22)

We will get you in touch with the community affairs officers in your precincts.

(02:26:25)

Yeah, if somebody could call. Yeah, that would be great.

(02:26:28)

I asked you not to answer my questions. Oh, sorry, I missed that. So if you could please listen. Yeah, please.

(02:26:36)

The other thing is that years ago, they used to have a program where they had officers, for example, that looked like me, for example. Policing, you know, where actually cops were walking around that looked like Orthodox Jews. And you know what, the concept, when they publicized that, that alone was helpful. I am curious why that has not been used in terms of fighting antisemitism. That was two or three years ago... I do not know how many, I think it is about 15 years ago, they installed certain cameras on top of the lights to fight crime. I do not know if those cameras are operational or not. And finally, when I was in the Senate about four or five years ago, I sponsored a Bill to actually have insurance and licenses and other things on certain bicycles, even regular bicycles. I have seen some talk about it and I would like to know whether the Police Department has any opinions on it. I thank you very, very much for everything that you are doing.

(02:28:13)

Very much. CM, at your request, we will get back to you in writing on all of those things.

(02:28:20)

Thank you, but I do not want that held against us in terms of our live response rate for this hearing.

(02:28:29)

Yeah, because I could not answer all of that right here and now. Fair enough. Yeah.

(02:28:41)

Great, thank you. CM Brewer, followed by CM Restler. I wish I had Simcha Felder's sense of humor. I do want to thank the Central Park Precinct, David, and oh, Simcha...

(02:28:58)

Of those three I want to thank... retail theft is an issue and in one situation, the Duane Reade we put in a full time security guard and they have zero theft, but the nearby Duane Reade is still overwhelmed with security problems because they do not have one. I just was wondering how much time or effort or money you put into the idea of retail theft and if you think the numbers are going down or up.

(02:29:21)

Retail theft numbers in New York City are going down, like way down, and it is wonderful to see. It has been happening over the past two years. Chief Lopez-Petit will tell you all about it.

(02:29:32)

But specifically Manhattan North. So as far as retail theft, as the Commissioner said, this year we have seen a 19% reduction in retail theft in New York City across all five boroughs. When you look at the five boroughs geographically, it is led by Staten Island at 41%, followed by Queens at about 21% and Manhattan at about 20%. What I am really proud of is the men and women both on the patrol side and the investigative side when it comes to clearance rate, which means you commit a shoplift and you get arrested. Just four years ago, actually three years ago, that clearance rate was about 41% of the time we made an arrest. This past year it is over 51% and that includes low level shoplifting crimes. So again, I thank the detectives that have a very high caseload to take on those petty larceny cases. They have done a phenomenal job. We have used the tweak in the state law as our friend, meaning the aggregate amount that one person steals from a particular store, whether it be on 51st Street or on 55th Street, we are able to aggregate that. Again, it is built off recent results right here and we have done very, very well with that. You still have a lot of work to do, but we are doing well.

(02:30:57)

Okay, warehouses. So I went to the one in Queens. It is large and it has lost the extra space. So my question is, how many warehouses does NYPD have? I have been in the cannabis warehouse and there is a lot of cannabis in there. I was just wondering how many warehouses you have, what the cost is, and can you reduce them.

(02:31:20)

So we are actually actively working right now on ideally consolidating some of our facilities, including the warehouse you are referencing, the cannabis one. There are other things there as well, but yes, I have been through that cannabis facility.

(02:31:31)

Unfortunately, we did have funding before 2020 to do a full consolidated property clerk facility, which would have taken care of this. That funding did not come through, so we are trying to be creative now and look at some of the outer boroughs where we think we may be able to get out of some of the leases that are problems.

(02:31:56)

Update us on that — and you had a fire in one of the warehouses in Brooklyn? Yes. So can you update us on warehouses? I do believe that around the City all agencies can be consolidating, not just... And I think it would have saved some money. I think that is a great idea and we are working closely with DCAS. So I think the best thing would be for us to put together for you an update on what we are doing with DCAS to address the warehouse needs with exactly the goal you are saying, to have it be more state of the art so we do not have issues, and then also to consolidate so that we reduce the footprint.

(02:32:26)

Thank you. That covers my question. The tow pound in Manhattan — is that a problem? Are you ever going to find a tow pound in the Borough of Manhattan? It continues to be...

(02:32:34)

Unfortunately that is the same challenge that we have had since Pier 76 closed. It is just unfortunately the cost of real estate in Manhattan is really challenging. We have had a few sites where we thought we had something so that people did not have to travel quite as far if they were booted or other things like that with their car. Unfortunately those have fallen through, but we do continue to look with DCAS to see if we can restore a footprint to Manhattan.

(02:33:01)

Okay. I just ask because I have had the same question since Cuomo closed Pier 76. That was quite a few years ago. Okay. And they are not getting any more money — less money — in terms of that division. That is not really important. The reason I ask...

(02:33:19)

...is I love the precinct. I love the residents. I strongly believe that if we were to focus on the precinct, not just you but in a holistic way, you would have far fewer issues. So I am very proud to tell you that in New York City specifically, New York City is having its safest start to the year on record, with major crime down 10%, murders down 43%, shooting incidents down 24%, shooting victims down 30%, robberies down 24% and burglaries down 19%. The crime picture in New York City this year is vastly improved from last year. NYCHA and the Bronx are the two places where we are seeing the largest crime reductions, and I give credit — it was the highest to start with, though I give a tremendous amount of... yes, absolutely. And I give a tremendous amount of credit to the Chief of Department and the Chief of Crime Control Strategies on their precision policing, which is focusing additional resources where the violent crime occurs. Sometimes you can set a strategy in place and not see results, but in this one they put the strategy in place and they are driving real results.

(02:34:40)

What else is needed for...

(02:34:43)

...the precinct? Oh, we could have a very long conversation about that, but I think in terms of policing resources you are seeing very good outcomes. There is obviously a lot more work that can be done. I think a lot of it is on the social services side, but from policing, at this time we feel like we have the right strategy in place and the right resources to...

(02:35:09)

...deliver results. All right, thank you. Thank you, CM Restler, followed by CM Banks.

(02:35:15)

Thank you so much, Chair and Chair Feliz. I appreciate both of your leadership. Commissioner, it is always good...

(02:35:20)

...to see you. I disagree with you on a number of issues, but I appreciate your competence and the integrity that you have returned to the Department, and I think that a number of things are moving in a positive direction and I want to credit you for that. I also just want to take a moment to shout out Chief O'Sullivan, who has been really responsive to some of the issues that we face in the 84th Precinct, and I am really grateful for that. They have made a real effort and it has been very much appreciated. So I just want to take a moment to say something nice before I give you a hard time.

I am troubled by your response to CM Brooks-Powers' questions around incarceration. Just to put a finer point on it, we are about three years away from the opening of the Brooklyn jail. We have twice as many people incarcerated in Rikers right now from Brooklyn as what that jail can accommodate. We need an all-hands approach from the Police Department, from the Department of Correction, from the courts and from a whole lot of other stakeholders, including the Council, to work together to drive down incarceration in New York City. I hope that you would be a partner in that effort so that we can reduce unnecessary incarceration, reduce the amount of time that people are incarcerated, all working together as much as possible to achieve the smaller and safer vision of what closing Rikers is about.

(02:36:41)

Understood.

(02:36:42)

I was also deeply troubled by the data you shared around B-HEARD. So I will just walk through the data that I think I heard, and you can correct me if I got it wrong. Once you get it out, I will talk while you get it out. So calls to 911 annually — you said that in the first four months of this year, only 17,961 of the calls you received were appropriate for B-HEARD. Is that right? Hold on. Yes, that is correct. So that is about 54,000 calls annually. So 54,000 calls out of... is that 1.2% of calls into 911 that are appropriate for B-HEARD, according to the Police Department's view? So the total number of non-violent, non-weapon calls — emotional disturbance calls — in 2024 was 85,000... yes, 893. So if we say that that is going to be constant every year, the percentage is about 2% of 911 calls for service under the current criteria. I had 1.2% based on the first four months of this year. You are saying it was a little higher, but in that range.

So firstly, I just think for this administration that is taking a different approach — that we want to invest in alternative responses for non-violent situations — saying that 1 to 2% of our calls is appropriate for B-HEARD, I think is unfortunate. But even more troubling, which is not on your plate, is that for 97% of the calls year to date, just 1,411 out of the 17,961 calls that were appropriate for B-HEARD according to you — just 2.6% of those calls — were actually responded to by B-HEARD.

(02:38:31)

So what I have is 1,411 out of 17,961 — that is 7.9% from January 1 to about April 30th. So to put a finer point on all of that...

(02:38:46)

...that is 0.01% of calls that B-HEARD is responding to. 0.01% of calls — that is so small it is staggering. It is negligible. Does the program even exist? We are spending goodness knows how many tens, hundreds of millions of dollars on this program. It was functioning at some point. It does not seem like it is even functioning today. So we have some questions for the Fire Department and Health and Hospitals for why B-HEARD is essentially irrelevant. I think that the lowest of low-hanging fruit in the vision of what the Office of Community Safety can be — and eventually the Department of Community Safety — and to my colleagues, nicely done. Thank you. We got a co-sponsor in the room. This is the lowest of low-hanging fruit and it is an embarrassment.

I will do round two because I talked too much. Brooklyn Central Booking has been a serious problem. I am grateful that your team has finally confirmed for us this morning that we will get a tour. We have seen too many fatalities and serious issues there. In round two I would like to dig in more on response time. So thank you, Chairs. Thank you.

(02:39:44)

We will go to round two. CM Banks.

(02:39:51)

Thank you, Chair. Good to see you, Commissioner, and your team. The Penn Track — we still have concerns and frustrations around the Penn Track. If we can get an update for the 42nd Council District as to what is going on, and obviously with the warmer weather already here, residents constantly complain about the Penn Track. I know there have been ongoing operations back there, but it would be a great idea if you kept the community updated as to what is being done — obviously not the sensitive stuff, but at least let the community know the progress that is being made, if any progress is being made, as opposed to continuing to see... we always see sex workers walking the streets back there. Also, let me finish the issue — there have been multiple social media videos made about the Penn Track and this continues to put a blight, or attempts to put a blight, on the 42nd Council District. But if residents see that someone is working on their behalf to solve this issue, I think that will go a long way and help out as far as communicating to the community. So if we can get an update, I would greatly appreciate that.

(02:41:20)

The Department will answer that. So obviously, Chris, you know many, many years. Yes. Good to see you. Good to see you too. You know, dealing with the Pennsylvania Track and around that Linden Boulevard area — you are right, it is stubborn and it is somewhat frustrating in that, with the change in the law and a class action lawsuit that happened years ago, it has hurt our local enforcement.

(02:41:50)

Our local enforcement...

(02:41:51)

...meaning the precincts are not really able to deal with the actual prostitution and johns situation, but our Vice Enforcement Unit consistently hits the Penn Track, as does our Human Trafficking team, in and around some of those stubborn hotels and motels along Conduit and things of that nature. I have also tasked the precinct commander to put a plan in place to deal with low-level crime in and around those hotels along the Penn Track, meaning the quality-of-life issues that we do see that facilitate some of the violence when it comes to the prostitution. But I will tell you it is the number one location in the City of New York when it comes to enforcement by our specialty units, namely Vice and the Human Trafficking side of Vice.

(02:42:50)

I know there were efforts up at the Roosevelt as well. So if we can get the same type of attention, that would definitely — I know it made an impact in that particular district, from what I have heard. So if we can get that same type of attention, I greatly appreciate it. And the last thing pertaining to the 75th Precinct — I used to represent close to four commands and therefore four City Council districts, but particularly for the 75th Precinct, it has been a long-held complaint and frustration that the 75th Precinct is probably one of the largest commands throughout the entire City. When will we be able to get an opportunity to split that command? On the southern part of the district we had a major increase in population with the housing that is being built on that side, and I believe it is long overdue for the 75th to be split. I mean, it goes all the way from Starrett City all the way up into Sandy's district. The residents want that.

(02:43:55)

You do not need to tell the Chief of Department that — he is a former... oh, I know he is...

(02:43:59)

...I had a great relationship with him when he was the commander, so he understands that. We just need to see action. We need to see something done pertaining to that particular issue because this goes back over 20 to 30 years — the need to have the command split, even if it was some type of satellite put on the southern side like in the Gateway area.

(02:44:20)

It will go a long way. I will just answer very, very quickly. Just like the Police Commissioner talks about the Bronx getting the most resources as far as patrol boroughs, by far the 75th Precinct gets the most resources in all of Brooklyn North, other than some precincts in the Bronx. And again, it has the most RMPs, the most cops, the most cameras, the most license plate reader cameras.

(02:44:43)

Granted, it is a large command with a lot going on, but that is why we put a lot of experience behind us in doing...

(02:44:53)

...a fine job in New York and he is going to do a phenomenal job. And I will just ask Christine to speak about the process to create a new precinct. Go ahead.

(02:45:05)

Yeah. So when we look at that, you would take into account obviously all the factors in the precinct — the crime, the population, everything you mentioned — but there is also obviously the real estate element of it. The most recently built precinct, the 116th, cost $108 million. So right now we do not have funding for a new precinct, but if that were to move forward we would need those resources. We are happy to continue the conversation. We look forward to having that conversation and I thank you.

(02:45:35)

Thank you. Actually, talking about capital and going into that theme — looking at the capital plan, it appears to be heavily front-loaded with spending planned in the current fiscal year, and then it drops to about FY29. We know that capital plans are generally front-loaded and there are some large capital projects wrapping up in the next few years. Can you generally explain some of the big projects happening in the next few years that drive some of these changes, and also give some context on the planning of projects?

(02:46:07)

Yes. So part of the reason that it is so front-loaded, as you mentioned, is large parking... so as we mentioned earlier, the infusion of capital funding now for vehicles — there is a significant amount of funding early in the plan so that we can jumpstart continuing to replace those vehicles. Also our largest single project is also in the early years of the plan, which is Rodman's Neck, so we are working on that which should be done by the summer of 2028. Those are the two biggest things, and then the others are spread out more throughout the plan. What we do when we plan our capital budget changes with each financial plan because we take a look at where we are in the construction process and whether or not we have yet... and obviously with the...

(02:46:48)

...procurement drawings done. Exactly. So we push out, but then at the same time OMB works very well with us and is very flexible. If something is moving more quickly or we have a need earlier than it is reflected in the capital plan, we will look to accelerate those funds.

(02:47:04)

Okay, perfect. And then — the Deputy Speaker had to leave, but she wanted me to ask this question. Going back to the racial equity plan, another goal of NYPD's preliminary plan is to quantify, track and analyze racial disparities in stops, frisks and searches in an effort to reduce those disparities. This is listed as a medium-term goal to be completed by 2028. Do you have any data on stop and frisk from data collected from the How Many Stops Act that the Council passed?

(02:47:28)

So with regard to the How Many Stops Act, as part of that law we put out data with regard to Level One, Level Two and Level Three encounters. That data is put out. I believe... I have the data. So investigative encounters for the full year 2025: Level One, 2 million plus; Level Two, 31,159; Level Three, 26,405.

(02:48:25)

For context and perspective, that number was 680,000 in 2011. Which one? Level Three. Yes. Okay. So they went from 680,000 Level Three stops in 2011 to 26,405 Level Three stops...

(02:48:27)

...in 2025. And this year so far we have about 16% fewer Level Three stops.

(02:48:36)

Okay. Level Three. Okay. And how will the training initiative goals affect this aspect of the Department's work, and how will this review inform you of the relevant units and commands for retraining?

(02:49:11)

So with regard to the How Many Stops Act, as part of that law we put out data with regard to Level One, Level Two and Level Three encounters. That data is put out. I believe... I have the data. So investigative encounters for the full year 2025: Level One, 2 million plus; Level Two, 31,159; Level Three, 26,405.

(02:49:48)

For context and perspective, that number was 680,000 in 2011. Which one? Level Three. Yes. Okay. So they went from 680,000 Level Three stops in 2011 to 26,405 Level Three stops...

(02:50:07)

...in 2025. And this year so far we have about 16% fewer Level Three stops.

(02:50:17)

Okay. Level Three. Okay. And how will the training initiative goals affect this aspect of the Department's work, and how will this review inform you of the relevant units and commands for retraining?

(02:50:32)

So we have created something called the Racial Disparities Review Committee. It is part of the plan. It is all part of what we are doing with the monitor, right? So there is actually a monitor — the monitor's team are quite involved. Obviously I do not want to speak for the monitor. But what we are doing is we are looking at data, doing that in a very thoughtful way, working off of a model that the monitor's team used and further developing that out ourselves. In looking at that, to the extent you have commands, you want to understand what is happening, what is driving disparities, and really in part to understand it. But then, if there are disparities that we cannot account for, making sure we can address them. So we are looking at department-level data by the department as a whole and trends over time, but then also we want to understand what is happening in any outlier commands. Okay, great.

(02:51:34)

And then how do you track that? Is it by borough? Is it by precinct?

(02:51:39)

So again, we are sort of developing an internal model building off of the monitor's team's work and we have both in-house talent — people we have hired to work on this. We also have some external help as well. And then again, the model is still being built out. We are not there yet. This is a very complicated process, right? It is going to play out over time. But in doing that, we are looking at department-level data. We can look — ultimately we will be able to look at borough-level and command-level data as well. But this is very...

(02:52:20)

...much a process that is going to play out over many months. Okay. Thank you so much, and I will pass it on.

(02:52:29)

Thank you so much. A few more questions on overtime and then we will move on to other issues. Trust me, I wish I did not have to spend this much time talking about overtime, but obviously it is a big part of the budget. To what extent do you think increasing head count can potentially decrease...

(02:52:48)

...overtime? Again, there are trade-offs. So I cannot answer that question specifically. Certainly if we had a larger head count it would bring down the overtime budget this summer for the special events, meaning we would not have to go to the 12-hour tours. But in other cases it would not make a dent. So for example, if we needed an officer to work two extra hours in a zone, a larger head count would not get rid of it. And oftentimes it is said that more head count means more overtime. I do not necessarily believe that to be true because I believe if you responsibly manage overtime, you can avoid that.

(02:53:41)

What would you say are the top three things that would have to happen in an ideal world for us to be able to make the dent on the issue of overtime that I think we all want to make?

(02:53:49)

I think we have made a dent on the issue. As I provided earlier, calendar year 2025 overtime is down 12.4%. For school year 2026, the first three quarters overtime is down 10%. The fact that the fiscal year 2026 overtime spend is projected to be 6% lower than the historical average going back to 2016 — if you put it in today's dollars. And if you exclude the transit program that the governor is funding when we think about overtime, yes, the numbers go up, and that is because the cops rightfully get paid more and so that increases overtime spend.

(02:54:36)

All right, moving on to school safety agents and school crossing guards. Can you give us the new budgeted head count for school safety agents and crossing guards?

(02:54:43)

Yes, I can. Okay. School safety agents were cut by 264 positions to 3,651. Does someone have school crossing guards in front of them? I can get it here, hold on. I have it. Do you have it? Okay. I do not see it here. So we just recently hired a class of 94, making that — they are leaving us with 31 vacancies. The allocated budget is 2,309.

(02:55:34)

Christine, do you have specific numbers for school safety agents? Sorry, sorry — for school crossing guards.

(02:55:39)

So I have 2,309 as the allocation. We just hired a class of 94 in, so this leaves 31 vacancies. Okay.

(02:55:53)

Thank you. All right. Can you tell us how the current head count compares to the head count for the last five years for school safety agents and school crossing guards?

(02:56:04)

Down, but we will get you those specific numbers. I do not have it by year here. I just have this year.

(02:56:13)

And I know we are reducing the school safety agents by 264. Do you think what we have right now is enough?

(02:56:19)

No. I was disappointed about that cut, although I understood it because those were vacant positions. My hope had been to hire up to our previously authorized head count and we were looking at a number of different ways to generate interest in taking that test and to have basically more people interested in becoming school safety agents. The reason we were not up to head count is because we did not have enough qualified candidates. So we were looking at a number of factors including looking at some of the physical requirements to become school safety agents, which seem to my mind to be out of line with what the job requires. So I was hoping to make progress increasing the number of school safety agents before this cut occurred, but I do understand that it occurred because those positions were mostly vacant at the time.

(02:57:25)

All right, moving on to ghost cars. As we know, there are a lot of different agencies involved when it comes to enforcing rules related to ghost cars and fake paper plates. I know there have been some changes — the Sanitation Department is playing a bigger role. Can you talk to us about the different agencies, the different processes and roles that each plays, including the NYPD?

(02:57:44)

Sure. The Sanitation Department addresses vehicles that are derelict — so they are below some certain dollar value. They are just sitting on the streets and the Sanitation Department has the authority to get rid of them themselves. The Police Department has a lot going on with ghost cars and non-derelict vehicles, and Chief Obey can talk to you about some of our enforcement there. Okay.

(02:58:25)

So with ghost car flight operations, it is an interagency effort — so it is not just done in a silo, just NYPD. We work very closely with our law enforcement partners, typically along bridges and tunnels — so New York State Police, NYPD. Year to date we have had about 19 joint operations and that has resulted in 291 arrests, 12,000-plus summonses issued and 1,278 vehicles. In your district, I know that there were some concerns. That work continues along Farmers Market Road and some of the other locations that you gave us. I do not have that specifically — I will get back to you on that. But the work we do is totally separate from what Sanitation does. We work along bridges and tunnels and it is a multi-agency effort.

(02:59:24)

Right. Yeah. So about two years ago, we had a hearing on the issue of ghost cars and we were told that the NYPD did not have enough space to tow and to be able to properly enforce the rules on ghost cars. Is that still...

(02:59:37)

...the case? I know you have been working on getting towing space. So it is totally separate. I know that is what a Council member is always talking about, but this is totally separate. As a result of the multi-agency efforts that we have with the other law enforcement agencies, storage is not an issue for us at all because we tap into the MTA and the TBT — they have ample space when it comes to storage. So we do not suffer from that problem. It is separate from that other type of work. Okay, good.

(03:00:09)

All right, drones. As I mentioned in my opening statement, I saw a fascinating video yesterday. Individuals in the Bronx had engaged in gun violence and the local precinct used the drone to basically make sure that they were able to apprehend them quickly. We are thankful for those officers who were running towards individuals who had just engaged in gun violence and also still had loaded weapons. I am curious — and I know if you cannot share this information for operational security reasons that is fine and understood — but can you talk to us about the use of drones? Does every precinct have one or is that some of the challenges?

(03:00:46)

So the Chief of Department is going to answer a lot of the specifics to your question about our use of drones and the department's use of drones. We do not have drones at every precinct and I believe we should have drones at every precinct. As the drone management in the City is currently set up, the funding and the overall management of drone expansion is currently at the Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications. I believe, given that the NYPD is the biggest user of drones and there are such incredible opportunities to use that technology to drive public safety, that we should be in control of our own destiny in terms of expanding our drone program. But the Chief will tell you about how...

(03:01:39)

...great it is. So obviously I am not going to get into specific precincts on where our drones are being launched. We have three areas in Brooklyn, one area in the Bronx and one area in northern Manhattan. Each contains two docks, which can obviously fly two drones. So the drone can...

(03:02:02)

...only go out for a specific amount of time, comes back, and we put up the second drone. We have done approximately 5,000 flights this year alone. About 4,000 of those 5,000 are drones as first responders. The response time when we put up a drone to the actual 911 call is less than three minutes — it is about two and a half minutes. The success story that you are talking about: I can specifically talk about the one on May 24 when, yes, there was a response to a firearm incident and yes, we did apprehend two different individuals with pistols. So it is highly successful. I agree with the Police Commissioner — we are looking to obviously explore and expand our drones. In addition to the 4,000 first-responder flights that we have done this year, there are another thousand that we used for either missing persons, beach patrol activity, parades, things of that nature. So we are up and running and it has been a great tool for us so...

(03:03:01)

...far. I apologize — I just found the information you were looking for on school crossing guards. I just want to make sure that it is in line with what the Chief had previously said. So as of May 30, we employ 2,290 school crossing guards, including 2,211 Level Ones and 79 Level Twos. The budget count for school crossing guards is 2,309, which breaks out to 2,219 Level Ones and 90 Level Twos.

(03:03:37)

All right. Thank you for that data. Just curious on the issue of technology and drones — in what cases do we use drones? They are more effective for many reasons: they are cheaper, which means you could purchase more; they are faster; if you have more you could have them in different positions. In what cases do we use drones versus helicopters? I am sure every New Yorker has heard those helicopters when there is a serious incident.

(03:04:03)

So look, we obviously know...

(03:04:07)

...the price difference, right, between the fuel and things of that nature. I will say...

(03:04:14)

...this: when we can put up a drone, the drone is going. You know, there are...

(03:04:20)

...restrictions and also the infrastructure sometimes — or I should say tight locations, things of that nature. We are able to use that drone in between buildings. Our Emergency Service Unit uses it tactically for barricaded perpetrators. We have approximately 80 drones and I am telling you we use it as much as we can. But the executive plan included 6.5 million dollars for a drone-based grant. How do you plan on utilizing this funding and also can you talk to us about the new developments you have been working on with the federal government to have more authority to be able to take down rogue drones?

(03:04:57)

Yes. We got six and a half million dollars from the federal government to use to purchase drone threat mitigation equipment. We have spent that money and purchased the equipment. We also have members of our counterterrorism team trained on using that equipment and trained specifically on drone mitigation. So for the first time, at the World Cup this year and events in New York City surrounding the World Cup, the NYPD will be working directly with our federal partners with our own equipment and our own personnel on drone mitigation. I will say that is a very important first step. As for doing it beyond the World Cup, beyond that special event, it is still unclear and I am not at this time certain how it will work. We are looking forward to the Department of Justice putting out guidelines to guide state and local agencies about how they will be setting up our authority to mitigate drones generally.

(03:06:19)

All right. So the Taser 10 upgrades — the plan includes increased funding to move to the newer Taser 10. It is an upgraded and safer Taser with, to my understanding, more range, reduced voltage capacity and much more. When will officers have this new Taser and will all officers have one?

(03:06:39)

Yes.

(03:06:39)

One unit has already been completely trained, which is wonderful, and we anticipate completing the training for all other officers by the end of 2027, although those plans are preliminary at this time.

(03:07:01)

A few questions about recent incidents. So recently — I think it was the Gothamist — a woman who was in NYPD custody, and please tell me if any of the reporting is incorrect, gave birth while in handcuffs. According to the Gothamist article she was arrested on a low-level charge, something that could have potentially been a desk appearance ticket. She was nine months pregnant and gave birth in custody. Can you comment and provide any details...

(03:07:31)

...on this? The young woman was arrested for trespass and we were unable to give her an appearance ticket because she was wanted — she had an open warrant. She did not give birth in cuffs. She was uncuffed by the time she gave birth. There is a dispute on that point in the article, but she gave birth...

(03:07:59)

...I will say, if I recall correctly — and I wish I had brought the specifics of that incident — my recollection is that she was brought to the hospital and was released from the hospital and put back in our custody. Yes.

(03:08:19)

Okay. And what was the open warrant for? And also, what is the policy when it comes to individuals who might be pregnant or have medical needs?

(03:08:30)

What we will do is we will follow up with you in writing about both the particulars of what occurred and we can also provide you with any applicable policies. We are not prepared to talk about this in detail here. The Chief of Department can speak about the policies, but what I do not want to do is talk in an open forum about a specific individual and a specific case. So go ahead. The policy is to bring that individual to the hospital.

(03:08:59)

Which the policy was followed — brought to the hospital, then released that individual back to our custody.

(03:09:10)

Okay. And what was the open warrant for?

(03:09:13)

Again, I do not want to discuss a specific individual's case in an open setting like this.

(03:09:22)

A few final questions. I know earlier you mentioned there is a new precinct in the Borough of Queens. What are the factors that you take into consideration when deciding whether to build a new precinct? I am only asking because I know some precincts in the Bronx... Lots of things: the geographical size of the precinct, response times, 911 calls, 311 calls, crime conditions — there is a lot that goes into it. Okay.

(03:09:59)

All right, and last but not least — we have obviously made a lot of progress on the issue of safety. As we know, crime itself, for the most part — shootings, murders and so on. What would you say are the top three things that have helped us get there? Police presence, technology — I am sure those are among them. In your opinion, what would be three things that stand out?

(03:10:20)

You could have listed one more and you would have answered the question yourself. You are doing great. I give a lot of credit to the Chief of Department and the Chief of Crime Control's precision policing strategies — not just the zones. What happens is when we see a crime problem, we look at the data and we come up with a very specific data-driven response to it. We have, for example, one response based on the data that we saw related to retail theft — retail theft is down. Another data-driven strategy addressed burglaries — burglaries came down. Same thing for shooting incidents and shooting victims. So I would say largely it has been precision policing, which to my mind is data-driven strategies to address specific types of crime that we see. Second, I agree with you — the technology has been extremely helpful in our efforts. Third, and I think most importantly, our cops are...

(03:11:29)

...doing incredible work. They are out there every day, they are engaged. They are carrying out the strategies that we have given them with a lot of nobility and a lot of professionalism and without their work, we would not see any of the reductions that we are enjoying today. Thank you.

(03:11:56)

Thank you. The final question is on the unsafe use of mobility devices. As we know, mobility devices such as e-bikes, scooters and small pads are good. You can easily move around. They ease traffic. They also reduce air pollution versus, for example, using cars. But we have seen people use them in unsafe ways and, of course, it is a very complex issue. It could be super difficult to enforce the rules. You stop them, they could easily take off and it is difficult to engage in a high-speed vehicle pursuit. They can obviously go much faster than cars and enter areas that cars cannot enter. Do you think the reckless use of these items is a problem and, if yes, what is the policy on that?

(03:12:37)

Yes, I think it is a problem and I think the data bears it out. I want to be clear that for reckless driving of these smaller mobility devices, we still today can issue criminal summonses for that and we continue to issue criminal summonses for reckless use of e-bikes and scooters. But for other offenses, like for example speeding or running a red light — things that come just short of recklessness, or the legal definition of recklessness — we have reverted from issuing criminal summonses to issuing civil summonses based on conversations with City Hall.

(03:13:36)

All right. Thank you for the information. All my colleagues have a second round of questions. Salt policy here. Thank you. Okay, come. Avilés, followed by Wong.

(03:13:46)

Thank you for my questions. I just want to address a couple of things. The woman who gave birth in cuffs in the courthouse in Brooklyn — and I am going to say that because the cuffs were taken off when the baby was crowning — any mother will tell you that labor and birth is much more and much longer than those final few moments when your baby crowns and is actually born. So I would suggest that whoever is giving you that line, whoever is working on the spin, rethink that one, because that is a terrible answer. I am emotional just thinking about it. I cannot believe that that was the answer that was given.

I did want to correct the record. I know that it was testified to that the jail population on Rikers consisted of everybody being there on felonies. I just want to say that as of yesterday, the population was 6,652 people, 5,652 of which are pretrial, meaning that they are not proven guilty of anything and they are simply there because they cannot afford their bail. 397 of them are there on misdemeanors. 154 of them are there on technical holds. Those are not felonies. So I think that is important to have on the record.

I am going to ask my question now. I also wanted to follow up on my first round of questioning around the summonses and the arrests. It was stated that there were three categories. The no-ID category was 6% of arrests, and then the other two categories were: if they had open warrants, and then the third category was if they were potentially going to be charged with a higher offense. So I wanted to hone in on the second and third categories. That second one — for those who had open warrants — how many times were those open warrants for other summonses or low-level offenses?

(03:15:56)

I do not have that data with me. But if someone is wanted...

(03:15:59)

...on an open warrant, it is our responsibility to return them on it. Well, okay. So I am going to say that under the law — under CPL 150.20 actually — it says that a desk appearance ticket is discretionary where there is an open warrant. It is actually the patrol guide, not the law, that suggests it is mandatory to take people through a custodial arrest. In fact, under the law, it would have to be a felony open warrant to make custodial appearance mandatory. So that is why I...

(03:16:33)

...want to know what percentage of non-ID arrests include felony charges. Councilmember, just one point on that — it is important. And of course you are right about that, but...

(03:16:44)

Here is the thing. If we have someone who we encounter and we know they have an open warrant and we just let that person go — we do not return them on that warrant — that person then goes and commits another crime, hurts somebody after we let them go on an open warrant. We are responsible for what happened. It is a massive liability for the department and for the City. We cannot do that.

I will tell you that in my experience as a public defender representing people in court, often times when somebody came through and they got a summons for sleeping on the subway or an open container, their open warrant was overwhelmingly, usually for another sleeping on the subway or an open container charge — not that they were some crazy threat to our safety. So I just think that context is important when people are trying to understand what it actually means when somebody has a warrant, and what it actually means when we are spending millions of dollars of resources to police people over these issues while not increasing safety...

(03:17:44)

...and exacerbating existing problems. So I want to go into that third area of the higher offenses that may be charged. Let us say somebody is under CPL 120 eligible for an appearance ticket or a desk appearance ticket. Of those higher offenses that you are using discretion to process, how many of those are still under the category of low-level offense, like for example a theft of service? How much of the percentage of those that you are tracking in that third category are actually other low-level offenses?

(03:18:23)

We will get you that information.

(03:18:27)

Okay, can I ask a few more questions? Can we go around? Okay, I promise. Tiffany, I am sorry. I will come back to you. I am going to come back. Okay, great. Thank you. As long as you promise to come back.

(03:18:42)

Okay, Councilmember, followed by Counsel. This is going on a long time. I am going to excuse the executive staff. The people testifying will stay, but we have a lot going on this summer and I just cannot have them staying here all afternoon.

(03:18:55)

Sure, go ahead. Okay. CM Wong, followed by Joseph.

(03:18:58)

Thank you, Chairs. Commissioner, auxiliary police officers were previously promised bullet-resistant vests after the 2007 murders of auxiliary officers Packer, Erro and Mark Marshalik, with the City committing 3.3 million dollars for vest purchases and recurring support for new members. My question is: is there a recurring baseline budget item in police equipment? Because I looked and looked and I just do not see it. So my question is: is there such an item, and does that include vests, radios and other safety gear?

(03:19:38)

Deputy Commissioner Ryan will answer that question.

(03:19:42)

Thank you. So we did include the request for the equipment for the auxiliary officers as part of our executive budget new needs. It was not funded. We will continue to make that request. Thank you.

(03:19:56)

My next question, Commissioner: I was at the Israel Day Parade yesterday and I want to commend the NYPD for the strong security presence along the route. The police were visible, proactive and engaged and the event proceeded without any significant issues. I saw substantial deployment that included patrol officers, the Strategic Response Group and counterterrorism personnel...

(03:20:25)

...and other specialized resources working together to maintain order and ensure public safety. Given some of the large demonstrations we have seen in recent years that have resulted in disorder, property damage, blocked roadways or arrests, does the success of Sunday's deployment demonstrate the value of a stronger preventive posture and should the department be utilizing that model more frequently at large-scale protests and demonstrations?

(03:20:54)

Well, our response to protests and First Amendment activity is governed generally by a settlement agreement entered into a few years ago in the Adams administration. But we look at each event based on the unique circumstances of it and we design appropriate security packages accordingly.

(03:21:17)

Thank you. Thank you, Chairs.

(03:21:24)

Okay. CM Joseph, then Brewer.

(03:21:27)

Thank you, Chairs. I have a question around: how many youth coordinators do you have within the NYPD?

(03:21:37)

Here we go. Can you just answer?

(03:21:47)

It is approximately two hundred. No, we have the exact number. Two hundred. It is 177.

(03:21:54)

1. Thank you. How many officers that currently have pending investigations for abuse and use of force have arrested or given summonses to youth in the current and last year, and what are the majority of charges filed or summons types given to these young people?

(03:22:11)

We will have to get that specific enforcement data to you because I do not have enforcement broken out by type of officer.

(03:22:20)

If I could just give a general statement. Go ahead.

(03:22:22)

Give me the general and then I would love to see a breakdown.

(03:22:25)

Yes. The arrests of juveniles is at its lowest level for serious crime and we are at our lowest level for low-level crime. Okay.

(03:22:38)

And you will send me a breakdown of what that looks like? Yes. And what are we doing as the NYPD and other agencies to combat issues with young people? Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

(03:22:52)

CM Brewer, followed by...

(03:22:53)

On the youth officers — it is more of a coordination issue for me — because young people leave the high school and unfortunately there is a lot of morning smoking, lunch smoking, after-school smoking, et cetera, in the neighborhood. The youth officers get stuck with this responsibility, although I think it is more the Department of Education that should be out there talking to the young people. So I have actually tried to get some people to go out, et cetera. My question to you is: good people in the neighborhood complain, understandably, on their stoop, in the community gardens and so on. So I guess my question is: what is the coordination? Even though we work at it at the precinct level, we should be doing more. So I am just wondering at what point do you say we have dealt with enough? I mean, this is more of a policy issue than a numbers issue, but it is creating a lot of havoc unnecessarily. I am just wondering what you think should be the policy there.

(03:23:55)

Any thoughts on this? Just give me general terms again, if you appreciate.

(03:24:00)

So we have revamped our juvenile crime strategies to take what you are talking about and make it front and center. We just had a meeting chaired by the director who oversees the juvenile crime strategies, who is an ex-prosecutor, with all the stakeholders when it comes to juvenile care — obviously the prosecutors not only on the family court side but on the DA's side and on the youth part side. It was an outstanding meeting. It was an all-day meeting. I actually went and spoke. So we are really, really trying to focus on two sides. On the arrest side, that is not what we are looking to do. We are looking to visit that family — what we call the highest risk — and then unfortunately on the other side, when it comes to violent crime, there have to be consequences.

(03:24:58)

Just keep me up to date on how we can work on it together because it is constant. Thank you. Thank you.

(03:25:06)

Thank you, Brewer, followed by Banks.

(03:25:12)

Thank you very much to the Chairs. Thank you, Commissioner. So the last time I raised this with you, I appreciated that, unlike your predecessors, you acknowledged that response times are not where you would like them to be. It is a serious issue and you are working to improve them. We continue to see — I think in the most recent MMR — that ten response times were 14 minutes and six seconds, up from 10 minutes prior to the pandemic. Most importantly to me, the critical crimes in progress response times were nine minutes and 10 seconds, prior to the pandemic six minutes and 44 seconds, and the times prior to the pandemic had been very consistently in that six-minute-plus range. We are now looking at something that is much higher. There has been some improvement but we still have a ways to go. Commissioner, what is the plan to address this?

(03:25:58)

I think it is hiring up to head count. We need to get the numbers up. For too many years the department had authorized head count and then did nothing with it, meaning did not hire people to fill those vacancies. And those same people say that it is terrible that we have not hired 5,000 officers. Separately, I am confident that we are going to see the fruits of our hiring of these 4,000 additional officers come to bear starting next fiscal year, when they will be in precincts responding to 911 calls for service. Right now all of these new rookie officers are doing their first year to 18 months of training on foot posts. They are not in precincts responding to 911 calls for service. Starting then, we are going to be moving the first tranche of them into those assignments. So I hope to start to see 911 response times come down as a result.

(03:27:18)

I appreciate that and I know you have expressed this to me before — that you think that will make a difference. We saw end-to-end response times increase by 40-plus percent from pre-pandemic to now. They are slightly down from the worst points in the Adams administration but still not in a good place. We did not see a 40% modification in head count. We saw a single-digit percentage modification in head count. So could you just help me understand why things have changed so dramatically? Chief, do you want to jump in here?

(03:27:47)

Yes. So unfortunately, you know, the Commissioner hit it when he said the lowest level of shootings...

(03:27:57)

...and murders. But unfortunately crime is still up 25% from pre-pandemic, which means we are responding to a lot more violent crime than we had in the past. Those complainant reports that the officers take, they take a lot of time. It all starts with a field investigation and we want good customer service. I want the best customer service. That is what I demand. That is what the Police Commissioner demands. So a 25% increase in crime from pre-pandemic means that we are responding to a lot more serious crime, which takes more time to deal with.

(03:28:38)

I would love to dig into this with you further to better understand those trends and what you are seeing and how that is impacting response times.

(03:28:48)

If I could just make one real example. Let us say grand larceny auto is up 75% from pre-pandemic. That takes a lot of time. An alarm on a car, a lot of paperwork. I understand.

(03:28:57)

I understand what you are saying. I get it. I would love to dig in with you though and understand where those trends are happening. I just want to ask — and this is a pet peeve of mine — we have a global international retailer...

(03:29:11)

...I will not name them here, but they are based in Canada and they have a location in our district. They kind of famously have a no-chase, no-intervention policy when people steal from them. In one of my precincts, three or four commanding officers in a row had made the same staffing decision where they stationed two cops outside of this business all day, every day. As I understand it, it is for CompStat purposes — it is to try to reduce the crime coming from that business to drive down the numbers. For me, I would much rather have those two cops in the heart of downtown Brooklyn keeping the whole neighborhood safe rather than basically doing the bidding of this corporation. Officers should not be doing that if you are implying that they are functioning as a private detail. I think the reason that three or four commanding officers in a row — and I am not throwing any specific commanding officer under the bus — have stationed them outside of this business is because the business has a no-chase, no-intervention policy on thefts. So to reduce the number of thefts so their crime stat numbers are not bad, they just keep the officers in front of this store. The department will talk to you about that. They should not be stationary in front of a store.

(03:30:24)

You know, I have heard that and I know the business because I know exactly who you are talking about.

(03:30:31)

What I think it should be is at least a block foot post where those officers walk up and down the block. There are times they are going to see inside the mall. I understand. I will be very well versed on it. You know the CompStat message that you send. I will tell you this: the message from myself, the Chief of Department and all the executives is you do not run your command for CompStat. If you run your command for CompStat, you will no longer be a commander. It is a process and the process is in the right place. But I understand your concerns. I love CompStat. I am not here to criticize CompStat. I just think that when we are managing toward it we have problems. I appreciate your comments and I hope you look into this issue involving this corporation that you know well, across the City, because I cannot imagine I am the only one who sees it. I understand. Thank you.

(03:31:15)

Thank you. Okay, so I know we are past the Commissioner's hard stop time, so we look forward to hearing from the rest of the members. Questions to you and we look forward to getting those responses back. Thank you to all of you for being here. Thank you so much for being here.

(03:31:38)

...

(04:03:20)

Good afternoon and welcome to the second Fiscal Year 2027 Executive Budget hearing for the day, focusing on the New York Fire Department. I am pleased to be joined by my colleague, CM Ariola, Chair of the Committee on Fire and Emergency Management. We have been joined by CM Brewer, CM Long, CM Paladino, CM Banks and I believe that is it.

Okay, so welcome to our amazing Commissioner. On May 20, 2026, the administration released the Executive Financial Plan for Fiscal Year 2027 through 2030, with a proposed Fiscal Year 2027 budget of $124.7 billion. The FDNY's proposed Fiscal Year 2027 budget represents 2.1% of the administration's proposed Fiscal Year 2027 budget in the Executive Plan, and this is an increase of 9.9% from what was originally budgeted in the Fiscal Year 2027 Preliminary Plan.

This increase results from several actions: increased fire prevention staffing funding, 14 new fire inspectors, 84 additional civilian staffing and an increase of approximately $92 million in projected revenue. As of April 2026, the department was 562 positions less than their Fiscal Year 2026 budgeted headcount. In the Council's Preliminary Budget response, we called on the Mayor to add $28 million to FDNY in revenue re-estimates in two areas: the foreign fire insurance tax and fire prevention liens. In addition, we called on the administration to address the chronic pay disparity for Emergency Medical Service workers, chronic overtime spending and the ongoing staffing crisis impairing the City's response time.

We were pleased to see that our request for the revenue re-estimates were included in the plan, but the issues surrounding pay parity remain to be solved. Workers respond to the same life-threatening emergencies as their firefighting colleagues yet continue to earn significantly less, not just compared to firefighters, but compared to personnel in virtually every other major city in the country. The result is an attrition crisis, averaging nearly 8.3% annually, leaving the department perpetually understaffed. The Council proposed $50 million in baseline funding to begin closing this gap and the Executive Budget does not include this investment.

I look forward to hearing from the Commissioner on when New York City's workforce can expect to be compensated in a manner that reflects the value of the work that they do. Now I want to turn it over to my co-chair for this hearing, CM Ariola, for her opening statement. Thank you.

(04:06:35)

Good afternoon and welcome to the Fiscal Year 2027 Executive Budget hearing for the New York City Fire Department. I am CM Joann Ariola, Chair of the Committee on Fire and Emergency Management. Today this committee is holding hearings for one reason, and that is to get answers. We are here to understand whether this budget truly reflects the needs of the brave men and women of the FDNY and whether the promises that have been made to firefighters, EMS personnel and the people of the City of New York are being fulfilled.

Among the issues we will examine today are pay increases, the long overdue implementation of the fifth firefighter and the status of critical infrastructure improvements throughout the department. For years our members have been asked to do more with less. They answer hundreds of thousands of calls annually, provide life-saving medical care under extraordinary circumstances and serve as an indispensable part of our emergency response system, yet they continue to be compensated at levels that fail to reflect the value of their work. We need answers about what steps are being taken to achieve fair pay for these workers and how this administration intends to recruit and retain the next generation of first responders.

We will also once again discuss the need for the fifth firefighter on engine companies, which as we all know is not a luxury. It is a safety issue. Every second matters in a fire and every firefighter deserves the staffing levels necessary to perform their duties safely and effectively. The question before us is simple: what concrete steps are being taken to move this initiative forward?

And finally, we must address the condition of the department's facilities. In 2025, it was publicly stated that approximately $940 million had been allocated for capital improvements to firehouses and related infrastructure. Yet as we...

(04:08:50)

...review the City's financial plans, many of these projects appear to have been pushed further and further into the out years, in some cases extending through 2035. New Yorkers deserve to know why. Our firefighters are willingly putting their lives on the line every day. They run into burning buildings while others are running out. They work through natural disasters, emergencies and tragedies without hesitation. They never ask for anything and rarely complain about the conditions they are left with at the firehouse.

The very least this City can do is ensure they return to firehouses that are safe, modern and fit for the men and women who serve there. No firefighter should be forced to eat, sleep and work in facilities plagued by leaking roofs, apparatus floors ready to collapse and deteriorating conditions because of long-delayed repairs. Deferred maintenance is not merely a budget issue. It is a quality of life issue, a moral issue and ultimately a public safety issue. Today this committee expects clear answers, clear timelines and clear commitments.

The FDNY is the most respected department in the world. The firefighters, paramedics and civilian personnel who serve this City deserve an administration that keeps its promises. I would like to thank our committee staff for their hard work: Financial Analyst Tavi Singh, Assistant Director Jack Story, Committee Counsel Josh Kingsley, Policy Analyst Will Hung and my amazing Chief of Staff Phyllis Cirillo. I would like to welcome and thank Commissioner Bonsignore and our firefighters, EMTs and the department's civilian staff for the work that you do. I look forward to a candid and productive discussion and I thank the Commissioner and the department for their leadership and for appearing here before us today. I would now turn...

(04:10:55)

...back to committee counsel for swearing in. Okay, just really quickly before we get started, I just wanted to remind folks that we have the Executive Budget public testimony hearing on Wednesday, June 10, beginning at 9:30. So Wednesday, June 10 is a day-long session for public testimony. If you have folks that you know want to sign up, please make sure that they do. With that, I will send it over to our committee counsel for...

(04:12:12)

Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Chair Ariola and members of the Finance and members of the Fire and Emergency Management Committee. My name is Lillian Bonsignore and I am pleased to appear before you today to discuss the Executive Budget for the Fire Department.

I am joined by First Deputy Commissioner Daniel Flynn, Chief of Department John Esposito, Chief of EMS Miano, Deputy Commissioner of Management and Budget Lizette Christoph, Chief of Fire Operations Kevin Woods, Chief of Fire Prevention Thomas Corio, Associate Commissioner of Workforce Development and FISA Doonan and Assistant Commissioner for Facilities Raucous.

This coming Wednesday is the FDNY Medal Day, which is an event that we hold each year on the steps of City Hall to recognize the life-saving efforts of our members. Before we get into the dollars and cents of the Fiscal Year 2027 budget, I would like to briefly highlight the way the Fire Department's funding translates into tangible, real-world services.

Among this year's medal recipients will be Firefighter John Palmer from Ladder 144. In the early morning of September 12, 2025, Ladder 144 responded second due to a reported fire in a story flat-roof private dwelling in College Point. When they arrived at the fire, a woman said her father was trapped inside. Firefighter Palmer and the inside team masked up and made their way into the second floor, where they were met with high heat and zero visibility. At the top of the stairs they encountered a locked apartment door, which was difficult to force given the fire conditions and the size of the landing. Working with a fellow member of Ladder 144, Firefighter Palmer was able to force the door open and begin a search inside the apartment. He located an inward-opening door and found an unconscious 65-year-old man laying on his back on the floor of what Firefighter Palmer determined was a bathroom. Working with Firefighter Rafael Hernandez, they were able to remove the unresponsive man to the exterior landing where he was passed off to others and received emergency medical care outside that building. For saving a life under extraordinarily challenging circumstances, Firefighter Palmer will be receiving the Probationary Firefighter Thomas Wily Medal.

A second medal recipient this year is Deputy Chief Joseph Nocerino. Chief Nocerino was on his way to work one early morning when he spotted smoke and diverted his route to investigate in the Coney Island section of Brooklyn. He discovered a home engulfed in flames. After calling in the incident and requesting resources to the scene, he entered the building, braving the smoke and the flames to alert building occupants. After clearing the first and second floor, he closed the interior door to slow the spread of fire. Upon arrival of fire units, Chief Nocerino provided information to the members to assist in attacking the fire and then coordinated an 18-unit response, organizing a variety of specialized personnel and ensuring the civilians he had evacuated received appropriate care. For risking his own safety to rescue members of the public, he will be receiving the Chief Ulysses Grant Leadership Medal.

In addition to Firefighter Palmer and Chief Nocerino, 50 of their firefighting colleagues will be receiving medals for their heroic acts of bravery.

As to the numbers themselves, I am pleased to report that the Mayor's Executive Budget provides the Fire Department with an expansion of resources in several areas. It calls for a significant civilian headcount restoration, providing $748,000 in Fiscal Year 2026 and approximately $9 million in Fiscal Year 2027. This funding amounts to 84 individuals and we anticipate that it will go towards bolstering several units, including Facilities, Maintenance, Information Technology and Procurement.

The Fire Department will also receive an increase in headcount within the Bureau of Fire Prevention as part of the streamlining procedures to expedite the Equitable Development Speed Task Force. The department will receive $1.3 million in Fiscal Year 2026 and out years to hire 11 staff members for the Fire Alarm Plan Review and Inspection Unit and additional staff members for the Emergency Planning and Preparedness Group. These additions will help the units process plan applications, speed up inspections and help the bureau more efficiently process requests for members of the public who are looking to open a new business, renovate an existing business or build new facilities.

The budget also includes a restoration to the Fire Department and the expansion of the Behavioral Health Emergency Assistance Response Division, known as BHEARD. This program is part of New York City's commitment to use a health-centered approach to individuals experiencing mental health crises. The budget reverses the previous administration's decision to transfer funding away from the Fire Department and provides funding of nearly $2 million in Fiscal Year 2026 and approximately $4.8 million in Fiscal Year 2028.

(04:18:21)

And $6.7 million in Fiscal Year 2029 and out. The Mayor's Executive Budget also includes numerous smaller adjustments to technical initiatives. This includes additional funding for motor fuel, heating fuel, utilities and lease adjustments. On the capital side, we also received a new need of $24.3 million to support six roofs and waterproofing projects and $6.75 million in Fiscal Year 2027 to support the purchase of 15 emergency response vehicles.

In addition to new capital funding, we also received accelerations of out-year capital in the upcoming two years of the capital plan to enable the department to move forward on critical projects and purchases, including $16 million across Fiscal Year 2027 and Fiscal Year 2028 to replace emergency support vehicles, funding in Fiscal Year 2027 to expand fleet maintenance capacity, funding in Fiscal Year 2028 for multi-component renovations at Station David, funding in Fiscal Year 2027 to replace the apparatus floor at Engine Company 100 and funding in Fiscal Year 2027 to replace our air compressor at the Mass Services Unit.

(04:19:59)

When I was here for the department's Preliminary Budget hearing, we spoke about the department savings plan and our determination to save taxpayer money without negatively affecting fire operations. I am gratified that the Mayor's Executive Budget accomplishes this by creating several areas of savings that do not affect operations or negatively impact Fire Department members.

The first initiative increases revenue by enabling the department to collect payment for treatment in place. Under existing practice, if an ambulance responded to a medical call, provided treatment, stabilized the patient, but the patient ultimately decided to refuse transportation to the hospital, the department was entirely unable to bill for that care. However, Medicaid will soon begin reimbursing Emergency Medical Service providers for the provision of care without transport. The Fire Department will begin collecting payment for treatment in place and seeing the benefits of this practice.

The second component of the department savings plan is a periodic increase in ambulance fees. Ambulance rates are adjusted every few years based on the actual cost of operating. These rates were last set about three years ago. The current rate proposal reflects cost updates experienced since that time. This includes a variety of increases in costs borne by the department, including but not limited to spending on auto parts, maintenance, support staff and maintenance agreements, costs associated with purchase of vehicles and labor costs. We understand that these costs present a challenge for some patients and we have programs for self-pay patients who are unable to pay their bill. This includes a charity care program as well as a settlement program.

Finally, the third savings initiative achieves savings of approximately $800,000 in Fiscal Year 2026 and $2.2 million in Fiscal Year 2027 and out through renegotiation of telecommunications contracts. We achieve the savings by finding efficiencies and reducing costs. As a mayoral agency, we strive to be good stewards of municipal funding, providing the best possible service to the public and not spending unnecessarily. With this savings plan, we believe that we have achieved the appropriate balance.

I want to thank Chair Ariola for your ongoing assistance and support. I have now met with many of the members of the Fire and Emergency Management Committee and I have had a chance to see many of you in your own districts and learn about the different needs and priorities of the neighborhoods you represent. Our efforts to protect New Yorkers are strengthened when we coordinate with our government partners. We have seen the recent upward trend of fatal fires in the Bronx and I am encouraged by the passion and enthusiasm of this committee. I have confidence that we will achieve great gains by working together.

I am pleased that this Executive Budget provides funding that expands our operations and restores critical personnel who support and carry out those operations. This budget will enhance the Fire Department's service to the public, both from a regulatory and preventative standpoint as well as from a critical life-saving emergency standpoint. We have achieved savings without harming our ability to carry out our mission of protecting life and property and we strive to provide the best possible service to the people of New York. I would be happy to answer any questions you have at this time.

(04:24:09)

Great, thank you. We have also been joined by CM Banks. Did I say Banks already? And Maloney. Did I miss anyone? Okay, all right. I am going to focus mostly on three areas. First, one being Be Heard. As chair of the Mental Health Committee and as a social worker myself, this is a very, very important program. I know that there seemed to be some back and forth, obviously, with it being with you all and then back again, and so wanting to ask a few questions around the budget with this. I remember when the program first came out, they had budgeted about 50 million and then in the first year I think it was about 22 million or so that they had actually utilized. So wanting to get a sense of where things are with the executive budget and Be Heard. I believe they transferred in the out years with headcount expanding from 44 to 84 positions. What specifically prompted the transfer? Was it driven by performance issues or management? Was it just a better fit? And how are those being addressed?

(04:25:40)

Thank you. Very good question. So Be Heard is a very important program. Obviously it is one of these programs that really takes a combination of people and they do a very difficult job for a community that needs specific help, and we were happy to get it back. So in the previous administration, the idea was to have this unit transferred to Health and Hospitals. When it came back, we were able to have these conversations around the best fit for it, and we were able to have it sent back to the department. We are excited about that. We think it is a tremendous program and it has got a great future. Definitely. So as far as the budget pertaining to Be Heard, I am going to pass this over to the Commissioner to talk about the numbers for you. Thank you.

(04:26:37)

Yeah, you have the numbers right in terms of what was added back into our budget. I think earlier you referenced the larger numbers that had been in the budget before. Part of that has to do with a differential that members get for taking mental health training, and so the numbers that you just stated do not include that differential because that differential stayed in our budget even when the transfer had happened to Health and Hospitals. So currently all members, once they have completed the training, are eligible for the differential.

(04:27:08)

Okay, which I have actually attended the training before and it is very, very comprehensive. It is great to see how the social workers are all sort of working together on that. Were there any service gaps or disruptions to Be Heard operations during the transition period and how are those being addressed?

(04:27:31)

There were no disruptions throughout. At one point the unit was actually starting to disband, but when we came back in we took it back and we were building it back to where it

(04:27:45)

was before. So

(04:27:46)

we continued to run Be Heard units throughout this conversation about where it was going to land.

(04:27:53)

Okay. And I know that in the beginning, especially when the program first started up and as you alluded to, this is a very niche sort of program that deals with very underserved communities. So just wanting to know how has it been in terms of staffing up and getting enough teams that are able to appropriately meet the needs of the folks that need this help on the ground, because I know that it was tough in the beginning to recruit folks to take on this work. So I just wanted to hear if you have any updates on that, and also in terms of going from 44 to 84 positions, do you anticipate any issues there in terms of staffing up?

(04:28:34)

Yeah, I will turn this over to our Chief of Operations to talk you through the operational portion.

(04:28:40)

As the Commissioner previously stated, we were preparing to disband Be Heard, but without any service gaps. That did not mean we did not start to send some members out into the field and into other positions. Since the Commissioner came back and took Be Heard back to the Fire Department, we have rehired those members back into Be Heard and our staffing remains consistent. Again, Be Heard — we do not just pick people to go to Be Heard. It is an application process. So whenever we put out a posting for it, we get people who want to be a part of the unit. It is something that members feel very passionate about, so they apply to be a part of the unit. As we have those postings and we are able to have those trainings that you attended, we are going to fill all of those spots that we had originally started to put people into in the field.

(04:29:35)

Okay, so no anticipation of having issues filling those positions. As you mentioned, it is a volunteer application process. So

(04:29:45)

no anticipation. I do not believe so. We have a lot of members who feel very passionately about that program.

(04:29:54)

Perfect. Okay. And can you break down the titles? How many are clinicians or co-responders and how many are administrative or supervisory?

(04:30:06)

So right now we have a total of 62 Fire Department members assigned to Be Heard. The majority of them are EMTs and we do have sergeants and lieutenants also assigned. That is going to be a combination of 28 sergeants and lieutenants assigned to Be Heard and 34 EMTs assigned to Be Heard.

(04:30:40)

And what is the total cost now of the Be Heard program inclusive of all the funding sources, not just the transferred city-funded portion shown in the executive budget?

(04:30:51)

So for the current year, fiscal year 26, it is about 4 million when you add the two components. That is just the Fire Department piece. So the social workers, for example, are actually part of Health and Hospitals. Yes, so you do not see that part in our budget numbers.

(04:31:09)

Okay. And do you know what that total budget is overall? Okay. The capital plan includes 1.1 million for 20 Type Two ambulances for Be Heard in fiscal year 32. Why does that vehicle acquisition feel so far out in the plan? Are the current Be Heard units adequate? The ambulances in the Be Heard unit — the vehicles that they use — are they customized for Be Heard and are they fairly new? I went out not knowing the exact cycle of replacement. The ones that they are in are not very old vehicles. Okay, which is basically why you are saying it is probably that far out at fiscal year 32, because the current vehicles are adequate. Yeah. Okay. And then just in terms of geographic coverage, does the funding in the executive budget bring the program to the point where it can operate in all five boroughs on a 24/7 basis?

(04:32:19)

There is additional funding in the out years. As you mentioned, the funding does grow. We are currently in conversations with our interagency partners about potential expansion plans going forward.

(04:32:34)

Okay. And how many boroughs does it currently cover? Is it all five right now?

(04:32:38)

It is not all five right now. Okay, that is the one island. Oh. Okay, we have got

(04:32:44)

to figure that one out. And what percentage of mental health related 911 calls... we just had the NYPD Commissioner right before this, and so just one of the questions I had asked was what are some of the numbers in terms of 911 calls that have been appropriately referred to the Be Heard program. If you could give us some of those numbers,

(04:33:05)

that would be great. So I have numbers for fiscal year 25 and year to date for fiscal year 26. I do not have them in percentages though, I just have them as raw numbers. So Be Heard responses in fiscal year 25: Be Heard responses were 9,638. Be Heard arrived on scene to 8,201 of those and Be Heard treated on scene with no transport to the hospital 1,670. Before I get into fiscal year 26 year to date, I just want to explain why Be Heard was called for 9,638 but only arrived on scene for 8,201. It is because there is very strict criteria that we use to send Be Heard units, and as our dispatchers talk to the caller and get more information, some calls no longer fall under that criteria. That is why those numbers are different. Fiscal year 26 to date: Be Heard has had 7,297 responses, they have arrived on scene to 6,233 and they treated with no transport to 1,400. Okay, great.

(04:34:28)

I do not know if this is a question that folks know the answer to, because I know that the Mayor's Office of Community Safety is still sort of being worked through, but I know that I saw that Be Heard was also in that department. So I am just kind of curious if you know how that is going to look in terms of coordination of services.

(04:34:53)

I think that is going to develop out. We are very excited to work with this new Office of Community Safety to scale up and move things around, but it is going to be a key component to running Be Heard. Okay, great.

(04:35:12)

And then before I pass it on to Chair Ariola, I just wanted to ask a couple of questions on pay parity, which we know has been an unresolved issue for many, many years. How does the department currently define pay parity for personnel and what is the benchmark being used for comparison?

(04:35:36)

So right now I think what you are going to hear a lot is pay parity in comparison to our firefighters.

(04:35:46)

That is not something that we have formally defined. This is something that has just been a matter of conversation between the unions and the Fire Department, but that is how we understand it to be defined. And do you agree with that

(04:36:05)

assessment — that it should be at the same level as firefighters — or are you all internally thinking of a different benchmark?

(04:36:11)

Yeah, I think at this point my position is this, and I have been pretty vocal about supporting parity. I do think it is one of those things that needs to happen sooner rather than later, and I do hope that that is something that happens. But what I am looking for is a way to have an actual destination — a profession, someplace they can come to, raise their families on the job that they are doing, and enjoy the life-saving work that they do. My position as the Commissioner really surrounds being able to provide services to New York City for the coming decades. That is what we want. We want to have a robust, sustainable system. So as far as the details go of what that is going to look like, I would have to defer to the appropriate parties. I do not have a seat at that table. The conversation that I am driving really is about

(04:37:16)

the safety of our City and being able to continue our services. Okay, great.

(04:37:23)

And how does the compensation in New York City compare to other large municipalities across the country? Where do we fall in that?

(04:37:34)

The entire country is experiencing this problem. They are experiencing a very serious recruitment and retention problem. It used to be that New York City could kind of get away with it. We had a lot of people who wanted to come here. We were not experiencing it the same way as the rest of the country was, but we are no longer.

(04:37:58)

So now New York City is also experiencing difficulty in recruiting and retaining these incredibly talented and skilled professionals who save lives for a living. This is a conversation that the entire country is having and I hope that New York is going to lead the way in this conversation.

(04:38:20)

Yeah, I agree. And what is the total annual cost if we were to achieve full pay parity for personnel? What would be the total cost and is there any portion that is included in the executive budget?

(04:38:36)

I think this is something that has to be worked out through the unions and the relevant parties. I do not have a number as to what that is going to cost because it has not been determined what it is going to look like, so I would defer to them.

(04:38:48)

Okay. And if you do have any estimates that come up, if you could let us know, that would be great.

(04:38:50)

And is there a formal commitment from the administration in terms of a timeline for when these conversations are going to take place and hopefully get settled?

(04:39:01)

It is my understanding that the unions are starting their process of negotiation as far as that contract. I am expecting that those conversations would be part of the negotiations that should be happening now.

(04:39:16)

Okay, very soon.

(04:39:16)

Hopefully. Okay, perfect. I am going to pause there. We have been joined by Deputy Speaker Williams, CM Hudson and CM Pierina Sanchez.

(04:39:32)

Thank you, Chair. Just two points to piggyback off your questions. We were talking about a rise in headcount. Is there a plan to increase headcount on ambulances?

(04:39:47)

I am sorry, is there a sense that there would be another...

(04:39:52)

person on ambulances? They have been asking for a third person.

(04:39:55)

Oh, we have not had that discussion, not with me anyway. I am certainly happy to have those discussions, but this is the first I am hearing of it.

(04:40:04)

Ah, okay. And also, when it was brought to our attention that there would be an increase in charges when an ambulance goes to a call, a portion of that additional money that would be gained would be considered when the Mayor's Office was discussing pay raises, if not parity, for workers. That was supposed to be incorporated — I think you and I had that conversation — that would be incorporated. So while the ambulance fees were being raised, do you want to talk about that?

(04:40:44)

So the ambulance rate increases do reflect an increase in salaries, but based on the civilian patterns. So we have incorporated a 16.1% increase in salaries based on what they would have gotten if they were following the civilian pattern. So there has been some discussion regarding an increase in their salaries.

(04:41:08)

If you are saying 16.1%...

(04:41:09)

Yeah, that is the civilian pattern that all of the civilian unions had received.

(04:41:16)

And you are saying that that conversation is being started with their unions.

(04:41:22)

Okay. So the executive budget projects significant new revenue annually beginning in fiscal year 27, yet fiscal year 26 actual revenue came in well below the out-year projection against the substantial total department cost. This gap raises fundamental questions about whether transport is a net revenue generator or a net cost to the City, and whether the financial plan's revenue projections are realistic. The committee wants to understand the state of the ambulance fleet and whether staffing is adequate to meet that demand. That being said, the executive budget projects 92 million in new revenue annually beginning in fiscal year 27, yet fiscal year 26 actually came in at approximately... against a total department cost of... Does the department consider ambulance transport to be a revenue-generating operation or a net cost to the City, and can you walk through the full revenue cost picture?

(04:42:37)

Yes. So services are definitely a net cost to the City. They do not generate revenue beyond their costs. In fact, historically, revenue covers about a third of the all-in cost of operating. So whenever we look at setting rates, we are looking at the total cost. That is including not just the direct payroll for the personnel — it is also including the fringe costs associated with that personnel. It is including the overtime costs, the medical equipment, the supplies that they use, rent on any stations. It includes debt service for the purchase of ambulances, for the IT systems like the CAD system that are used to support 911 operations, renovations at stations, and it includes a proportional amount of support staff at the Fire Department that support services — like the mechanics that help repair the ambulances, the IT personnel that work on those 911 systems, the HR people that help with hiring.

Now there are sort of three different adjustments to revenue being made in the executive budget, one of which is the 92 million that has been referenced a few times. That 92 million is actually not an increase in revenue. It is a decrease in revenue and an increase in city funds. So that was related to a Medicaid supplemental payment program that the City had incorporated into our revenue targets. Many of our transports are for Medicaid patients. Medicaid pays according to their own fee schedule, which is much, much lower than what our actual costs are. There is a program that several other states have been able to get in place referred to as Certified Public Expenditures, where you can essentially show Medicaid that your costs are much greater than their rates and they will make a supplemental payment. That has to go through a State Medicaid plan amendment process and we actually have applications pending in coordination with New York State that have been pending for over five years now, going back and forth with the federal Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services. That has not been approved yet, and you have seen this in prior years where that revenue has been taken down one year at a time. This plan includes a significant adjustment to take down most of that revenue in the

(04:45:07)

baseline. The plans are still pending, so it is possible it gets approved, probably at a much lower amount than we thought initially, but that is why you see that adjustment. That is being replaced one for one with city tax levy dollars, so there is no negative impact to operations from that program not going through. The other

(04:45:28)

Two adjustments are our savings initiatives. So we have treatment in place, which is up mostly because of Medicaid revenue. Now that one, in contrast to the one I was just talking about — that SPA, the State Medicaid Plan Amendment has already been approved by the federal government, so we feel much more confident with that. That was approved fairly recently, so it back in... and that is mostly what is supporting that 10.1. Then we have another, and that is tied to the increase in rates. But when you look at all of those adjustments and you compare with what the revenue targets were as of the preliminary budget to now, overall the revenue target is going down because of that large $92 million adjustment. Right? Okay, so if the $92 million number is not correct...

(04:46:20)

Right, or not exactly. It is the other way around, so it is not...

(04:46:24)

Down, dollars going up. Okay, so then what is the department's total for FY27 and how does that compare to the total cost of running... what are the actual numbers? So the FY27 revenue target is... and that is still substantially short of the all-in cost of operating, which is in excess of $900 million. Okay. And so you are also saying... all right, so the executive budget projects several hundred in total revenue in the out years. Is that correct?

(04:47:08)

No, it is so that from that number, 400.5 was what it was as of the preliminary budget. As of the executive budget it is now... so it went down.

(04:47:21)

Okay. And so the FY26 came... that was actually... so what accounts for the difference?

(04:47:30)

What do you think is the major reason for the difference and why it decreases? It is because the $92 million is not incremental and it was actually so negative. So the $92 million was taken down, so that helps explain part of the difference between the 403.43, and then the two things going up are the 10.1 for treatment in place and the 24.6 tied to increasing ambulance rates.

(04:47:59)

Okay, so we are still not working with real numbers and we are still not working on what-ifs and we do not... how are we supposed to really put a budget plan together when there is not any tangible numbers so far? Okay, so I am going to switch to fleet capacity. What is the current size of the fleet, how many units are out of service at any given time due to maintenance or age, and what is the average age of the fleet?

(04:48:28)

So there are about 600 ambulances in the field. The number is a little bit higher than that if you include specialty ambulances and ambulances used in training. The average out-of-service rate is about 30%, but that number of ambulances reflects the fact that we need that level of spares available. The average age is about two years, so we aim to replace our ambulances when they are five to six years old, and so they are fairly young.

(04:48:58)

And as I have done regularly... yes, there was a delay around the pandemic because of manufacturing delays, but we have since caught up. If the FDNY increases the number of active ambulances, would transport revenue increase proportionately, or are there other constraints such as staffing or call volume that would limit that impact?

(04:49:25)

So call volume would definitely limit the impact, so we think that the demand side of that equation is fairly constant. The number of people calling 911 for a medical emergency is not likely to change if we have more or fewer ambulances. How we estimate the revenue impact of adding a tour depends a little bit on the situation. So in instances where we are replacing a tour that was operated by a voluntary hospital, which has certainly happened many times over the last few years, we can estimate the full revenue impact of that because basically supply is staying the same — we are just replacing who was operating that tour. If we were adding tours to the system to improve response time, say, the revenue impact would be less. There would still be one, but it would sort of redistribute where those patients are going. We are only two thirds of the system — the other one third is the voluntary hospitals. So if we were adding additional tours to increase the total number, we would anticipate that we would proportionately pick up more tours. Okay. Do you...

(04:50:30)

Believe that you have enough headcount on staff available now for the units, and are they fully operational at capacity, and if not, what is the shortfall? So we are definitely not fully staffed. We are under budgeted headcount. Our budgeted headcount is 4,540 and we are at 4,250, so we are 290 under budgeted headcount, and we expect to lose another 500-plus personnel over the next four firefighter classes. Okay. All right. How does the executive budget project savings beginning in FY27 through higher federal and state ambulance reimbursement rates? What specific rate changes are driving this projection and how have those rates been formally adopted by the relevant state and federal agencies, or are they still pending as well?

(04:51:34)

There are two. So treatment in place, which supports the revenue increase, has been approved. So New York State had a Medicaid State Plan Amendment that they had submitted to the federal government and that was approved. New York State has only recently distributed guidance on how to proceed with the technical details of billing for that, but that is all set and we anticipate proceeding shortly. The second one is raising our rates. Rates are something that we can set on our own — that does not require state or federal approval. It goes through the City's rulemaking process and so we have gone through that process. We had our initial public notice, we had our public hearing, and the final rule was published in the City Record just last week, which is well on time for the rates to be effective July 1.

So a lot of it relies on a lot of unpaid transports, billing and collections. Let us talk about that. Approximately 20% of transports go unpaid — would that be correct? There are about 18% of our transports that are self-pay folks who are uninsured, and some of those folks do pay but generally at much lower amounts. And then there would be roughly 10% where we cannot bill at all due to incomplete patient information such as unknown addresses, John and Jane Doe cases and returned mail.

(04:53:05)

What steps is the department taking to improve billing documentation and reduce the...

(04:53:10)

Unbillable share? So there is regular training that is provided to staff on documentation, so names and addresses are very important to our follow-up options. We use an outside billing vendor additionally that can look up insurance information, and we share information with hospitals. So we have agreements with H+H and with the Greater New York Hospital Association that allow for sharing of insurance information to facilitate our reimbursement. Okay, so they...

(04:53:44)

Medicaid fee-for-service transports that are...

(04:53:46)

Not billed directly but are reimbursed through the Health and Hospitals subsidy. How is that reimbursement calculated and does it cover the full cost of those transports, or does it leave a structural gap that the City absorbs? So it does not fully cover the cost. That calculation has historically been based on the Health and Hospitals inpatient Medicaid discharge rate, and it sort of harkens back to when we were a part of Health and Hospitals, so it was part of their general Medicaid reimbursement. What we were hoping would replace that is the Certified Public Expenditure process I was referring to. If that Medicaid State Plan Amendment gets approved and we can move forward with it, it would replace that. So instead of getting that additional payment through H+H, we would bill directly for Medicaid fee-for-service patients, and then we would get a supplemental payment based on our analysis that would come a lot closer to our costs than the current...

(04:54:52)

Model. So then, if you take into account the rate increase, the unbillable share of transports, Medicaid reimbursement shortfalls and the cost of operations, do you think that ambulance transport will be a revenue positive with this new additional cost and fee in place?

(04:55:14)

No. So I think ultimately ambulance services are still going to be a net cost to the City, even if we were getting reimbursement on every single transport. Fundamentally, the vast majority of our transports are for Medicaid and Medicare patients, and Medicaid and Medicare pay according to their own fee schedule, not our rates, and that is generally much lower. Right?

(04:55:37)

And this is my last question before I kick it to my members of the panel. Is there any plan to invest in improved billing infrastructure, additional documentation staff or...

(04:55:53)

Outreach to uninsured patients, and what would the return on that investment look like in terms of increased collections, and has the department modeled that scenario? So I think the most important piece of this is the documentation that is done by the crew. It is very difficult for anyone, after that initial incident, to replicate that sort of critical basic patient information gathering that needs to happen at that point. If we have identifying information for the patient and an address, we can follow up. So we have information we can check, we have those information sharing agreements that I referenced with hospitals that allow us to follow up, and if we do not get insurance information we can send the bill to the patient. The most common callback after receiving a bill is patients calling in to give us their insurance information. So really it is that first step that is the most critical, which we continue to stress to ambulance crews — that documentation is really important. The other thing that would really have an impact is changes to Medicaid and Medicare rates that would come closer to covering our costs. Okay. All right, so...

(04:57:05)

We have discussed what I wanted to hear, and I am sure my colleagues have plenty of questions of their own. So we are going to begin with Deputy Speaker Williams, then CM Brewer and CM Banks. Thank you. Hi. I have been asking questions of all agencies regarding the racial equity plans that you submitted. It says that the department is using internal data and a Deloitte study to identify recruitment strategies for firefighter candidates from underrepresented backgrounds. What funding is included in the FY27 executive budget to support that work? Sorry, can you repeat the last part of that question? Yeah, I just want to know if any funding for this fiscal year is going towards identifying recruitment strategies for firefighter candidates.

(04:58:10)

You all reported that you are using internal data and a Deloitte study. Sure, thank you.

(04:58:17)

Definitely. For the Deloitte study, there will be a review of our most recent firefighter campaign, which we will begin hiring for in... so there is an after-action analysis happening with that. They will review some of our attrition mitigation programs that we run throughout the onboarding process for firefighter candidates, our pre-screening review board, so there is quite a bit of analysis that will be included in the Deloitte research. Okay.

(04:58:50)

And is that reflected in the FY27 budget, like your recruitment efforts? So the Deloitte study that we are talking about is reflected in our FY26 budget, and so that was part of an OTP we got as part of the preliminary budget. I am confirming the exact dollar amount. Okay, so there is no...

(04:59:11)

Specific dollar amount for this fiscal year for recruitment? There is absolutely... well, we have our budget for...

(04:59:23)

Then I guess while you find that answer, another question I have is: this year, will you assess factors contributing to hiring, promotion and retention of firefighters across applicant demographics by the end of 2026? That was something that you stated that you would do, so I just wanted to know if you had any information on what disparities the department has already identified and what corrective actions are under consideration.

(04:59:48)

In terms of corrective actions, we did quite a bit of analysis for the 2023-24 campaign and we came up with a pretty sound blueprint that we used to work through the most recent campaign. I am sorry — the previous campaign for the 2023-24... I think it is already 2026 and a lot of what we found was that we needed to focus a bit more, and not on just recruiting more people in general. We wanted to focus more on our reachable test takers specifically for firefighter titles — it is a very competitive title — and just, you know, recruiting not blindly but focusing on where are we finding people whose scores are reachable. That was central to us. And so what we did find in some preliminary findings is that the outcome of the exam seems to be a bit more favorable than the goals that we set for the blueprint, so we are pretty happy about that. Our focus now is just making sure that we are providing attrition mitigation programs to make sure that the targeted audiences that we focused on reaching are able to pass the physical exam, make it through the hiring process, and connect with mentors and all the programs that we offer to make sure that they make it through the process successfully.

(05:01:04)

Okay. Also in your plan, you stated that the department will continue assigning probationary firefighters who reside in New York City to divisions where they live whenever operationally feasible. What is the rationale behind this initiative and how does it... and why do you believe it improves community trust or service...

(05:01:27)

Delivery? Yeah, so that is what we consider the home division rule, where probies that live in the City are given the option to be assigned to a fire company in the division in which they reside, and that was part of our settlement with the court more than 10 years ago. There are times when, due to staff levels, it is not operationally feasible, and then they would be placed in one of the divisions closer, which does not happen commonly. Most of the time, if they request the home division, they are granted the home...

(05:02:04)

Division. Okay, just quickly, two quick questions. I want to talk about gender-related facility needs. So how frequently are borough commanders reviewing gender-related facility needs and is there a centralized tracking system for unresolved issues? And I want to note this was a big complaint — just making sure you have facilities for women.

(05:02:26)

I am sorry, what was the...

(05:02:27)

Second part of that? How frequently are borough commanders reviewing gender-related facility needs and is there a system for unresolved...

(05:02:39)

Issues? Twice a year the borough commanders have the mixed gender meetings where all the female firefighters are invited to come in and sit down with the borough commander and bring up any issues. For any facilities-related problems there is a resource center, a central reporting system to track them. So yes, they are...

(05:03:02)

Tracked. Okay, last question. The long-term racial equity goal included analyzing response times alongside neighborhood demographics to identify racial disparities in emergency response. Has the department already identified disparities in medical emergency response times across neighborhoods?

(05:03:22)

So you all said that you were going to do that, so I am just following up on what you sent. Yeah, I...

(05:03:31)

Would say that we consistently and routinely monitor call volume in all areas of the City, and as call volume is increasing in certain areas, we redeploy units into those areas to be able to address the call volume that we see. That could include running extra units in that area. It could also, as we look at the City as a whole, include taking units in that moment from other parts of the City which are not as busy and relocating them for a period of time into that area until we are able to get a handle on the amount of calls that are happening in that specific area.

(05:04:10)

Okay, just to clarify, the question was like, have you identified any disparities based off of geographical location? But we can continue later. Okay. Right...

(05:04:23)

What did you want to... just to answer, I will give you a little bit more clarity on the budget. You asked for the recruitment budget.

(05:04:29)

For fiscal year 26, our budget was about 7 million and I think we are on par. Sorry, 7 million. Sorry, 7 million.

(05:04:40)

Since we spent 14 million the previous campaign and 12 million the fiscal year before that, and a lot of that is tied to the campaign that way. And so for the fire campaign we do ramp up quite a bit more — a lot of overtime spend — and there is also a lot of money that we spend on advertising, so it does fluctuate. But 7 million for fiscal year 26, and we anticipate about around that same amount for FY27.

(05:05:11)

Thanks. Okay, great. CM Brewer, followed by...

(05:05:13)

Banks. Thank you very much, and thanks, Jason, for all his... he is always 24/7, seven days a week, even when he is on vacation, so I appreciate that. Fire prevention has always been something that... I can see in the executive budget you have got... in the past it has always been underfunded, and so I just want to know with more funding and more staffing, what do you expect to do? The Bronx is of concern, but in general I am concerned. I do not quite understand why there are so many more fires. Maybe you do. I know that I was instrumental in the beginning of the lithium battery issue, trying to work with your previous commissioners to get the stores to stop selling them. Of course, Amazon continued to sell them though, so I do not know if they are dealing with that or something else. But how are you going to approach this prevention? You have great officers out at every street fair et cetera, but it does not seem to be sinking in.

(05:06:11)

So we do know that there has been a significant increase in serious fires in the Bronx this year, but...

(05:06:17)

Elsewhere too, I think — not just the problems in the Bronx.

(05:06:20)

And Queens. We have seen a significant increase over last year and in part we are looking at and reviewing all of the fires, especially not just the serious ones but the fatal fires, and trying to find what is in common with them. Aside from that, the majority of them are in buildings with a single stairway. We have not found a common denominator yet. The causes of the fires are separate, although the predominant cause of fires in the Bronx and throughout the City is related to the electrical system, either in the building or extension cords or power strips or an appliance cord. We continue with the education outreach, the messaging where we are getting out there about closing the door. We know that was very effective with the lithium ion battery issues and we thank you for your support and championing that effort and we saw great results with that. So we are going to keep pushing that and getting the word out when we go to that building to get the word out. We continue with the smoke detector distribution. Anybody that needs that, we will go out and install.

(05:07:43)

I appreciate it. I just think that seems to be the number one concern. Hydrants being blocked — is that something that is improving? I notice on my block I cannot believe that people actually leave their car unattended at a hydrant.

(05:07:57)

We... I do not know. It continues to be an issue. We work with the Police Department for enforcement. When it does impede our operations at a serious fire, we will have our fire prevention folks issue a criminal court summons and have the car towed, which results in thousands of dollars of fines. But I agree, it is an issue that we are seeing across the City now.

(05:08:22)

Did not historically. Okay, so I mean, I am just saying that should be a major effort, not just by you but by the Mayor — an education campaign. Do a social media push on that as you do on other topics, because I see it all the time. I do not think people understand that it is illegal or they are just not paying any attention.

The other thing I had a question about was just... I hear what you are saying about the ambulance transportation fee. So what you are saying is, if somebody does not have insurance and they are self-pay and they cannot pay, then they can get support. Is that what you are trying to say? Do people do that? So there is a phone number on every ambulance bill for the billing vendor's call center, and they can call and talk through the options there. But there is a charity care program that is based on the same household size and income guidelines to help hospitals. And then response time for ambulances — what is it generally? Up, down, in between? How is it going?

(05:09:24)

I appreciate your support for parity strongly, and we appreciate your support as well. Just to your training comment, I have met with many of you. We have talked about strategies on how to get messaging out, because the real success is not having a fire to begin with. The real success is not going into cardiac arrest from the beginning. So when we prevent those things, that is where the real life-saving work is. I appreciate all of you spending time with me talking about different ways to get your constituency on message as to what they can do to keep themselves safe. Response times, as we have seen, can fluctuate, but we have seen that response times are going up.

(05:10:10)

And this is quite honestly why I am coming out so loudly

(05:10:17)

for parity. When we have an increased year after year demand for 911 services and we have staffing that is going in the other direction due to recruitment and retention challenges, that equation will lead to increased response times. There are other things that cause increased response times too. That is not the only thing that we could point to. There are things like... when I started, there were 20 additional hospitals within the five boroughs than there are right now. So as hospitals close, our EMTs and paramedics need to go further, they need to wait longer in the emergency rooms that need to absorb that additional call volume.

There are lots of different things that go into this problem, things that we are taking very seriously, and any possible solutions that we could come up with to reduce response times — including, as Chief Ayanna was talking about a minute ago, moving units into areas of higher demand. We track the demand across the five boroughs all day every day, so we see where there are areas that are really getting inundated with calls or where response times are higher, and we are able to shift some resources. But that does not mean that response times automatically go down altogether. They go down in that area and we will have to shift some resources around. But it is something that we watch very closely, because there are so many different factors that go into it.

(05:12:04)

Thank you. Maybe in a second round I want to ask about rumble sirens versus loud sirens. Thank you. So do you have a preference? There are some people that really like the rumblers. Yes, I like the rumblers. I live in between St. Luke's and Roosevelt. Yeah, and it is all day and all night, and so I have complaints all day and all night. So I am just wondering... I thought the union liked the loud sound. But I think we should think about sirens. I mean, I feel like bringing them all to City Hall Park and just blasting them all day long, because then somebody might do something about it. I have bills to do it, but I could use some help in thinking about sirens

(05:12:42)

because, you know, we have got a quality of life issue that, if you do not live near a hospital, you do not hear it. I have got two hospitals right next to me in the middle. Understood. You know, I would love a siren discussion. We would love to have a siren discussion.

(05:12:57)

Thank you. Okay, thank you, CM Banks. Then we are going to go back to her.

(05:13:00)

Thank you. Chair, to the Commissioner, thank you for coming today. One of the concerns I frequently hear from residents in my district, particularly those living in the southern portion of the district, is the perception that fire and resources are

(05:13:16)

located too far away from where they live. I want to know how the FDNY identifies coverage gaps and determines whether an area is being adequately served, and what role community feedback, call volume, response times and population density play in that analysis.

(05:13:39)

There are definitely some areas in the City that have stations that are further away. Stations — we are talking about fire stations, right? But with the call volume that we are experiencing, those stations are not really having a significant impact based on where they are, because our ambulances are out serving the public 24 hours, seven days a week. So what generally happens is when an ambulance has a run and they take that person to the hospital, they become available, so they automatically now become available for the area that they are in as the closest resource.

(05:14:19)

So what about fire trucks or firehouses?

(05:14:23)

So firehouses are more distributed across the City. There are far more firehouses — around 200 firehouses — so they tend to have a more equal distribution than there are right now.

(05:14:46)

Particularly, let me go from all the questions when it comes to emergency response challenges. There was a recent study done by elevator advocates, and this is related particularly to the 42nd Council District, which stated that there were close to five buildings in my district which had chronic elevator outages. So I want to know, particularly with these elevator outages that have taken place, has that been a barrier or has that played into the response time, particularly when it comes to

(05:15:30)

NYCHA developments. So the Fire Department — we have an elevator task force and we work closely with NYCHA and the NYCHA elevator team. We have a pilot program that we have expanded, where when the Fire Department receives a call for a defective elevator or somebody stuck in an elevator, at the same time we will also notify the NYCHA elevator team, and at times we could have an elevator mechanic meet us at the scene and resolve

(05:15:59)

that problem. What about just general response time to someone who is calling 911 for some type of help? Has that been a barrier? Have there been situations where an elevator outage has blocked or prevented a response to that particular call?

(05:16:24)

You are asking about emergency operations when there is an elevator out of service. And that is entirely something that can happen and does on occasion. I do not have the specific stats on that, so that goes to my

(05:16:35)

broader point on response time, particularly when it comes to NYCHA residents. It has been reported in my district that we have five buildings that have chronic elevator outages, and I want to hone in on what is being done as far as any coordination with NYCHA and with some of these private developers that are now managing these developments.

So specifically with NYCHA, we do have coordination about the elevators. We report when we operate there and have an elevator out of service. We do report that to NYCHA and it becomes their responsibility to repair it. But has there been observed situations where elevator outages have created barriers or delays in responding to emergencies? To be more specific — yes, that happens occasionally, but I do not have the stats for that. And if so, what coordination exists between the FDNY and NYCHA to address these challenges and to ensure that residents can receive timely emergency assistance, particularly seniors or individuals with disabilities and residents living on upper floors?

(05:17:47)

We would notify NYCHA when we discover an out of service elevator.

(05:17:51)

When it is not per se NYCHA, what is the coordination when it comes to a RAD-converted development?

(05:17:59)

We would deal with the managing agent then. Okay.

(05:18:01)

Has the FDNY identified any developments that consistently present operational challenges due to chronic elevator outages, and if so, are there any proactive measures being taken to mitigate those risks before an emergency occurs?

(05:18:18)

In those new complexes or with the new managing agents, we have not identified that at this time.

(05:18:26)

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. I would like to discuss the fifth firefighter. The deployment of the fifth firefighter on engine companies has long been a priority for labor and a point of ongoing discussion between the Council and the administration. The operational case is straightforward: more personnel on scene means faster knockdown times, fewer injuries and better outcomes for New Yorkers. So what does the data show about the fifth firefighter's effects on fire suppression outcomes, including time to knock down a fire, firefighter injuries and civilian casualties? Thank you.

(05:19:15)

For that question — we do not have specific data that shows the difference in operations with four-firefighter engines and five-firefighter

(05:19:26)

engines. When we break down our fire reports

(05:19:30)

that talk about civilian injuries and firefighter injuries, we do not have the ability to differentiate between the two. While we certainly welcome additional resources, the ability to stretch and operate hose lines is increased and better and more effective with five firefighters than with four.

(05:19:56)

Okay, so would it be safe to say that if a fire happens and the first due arrives and they have only four members on that rig and that fire is out of control, they have to wait for the second due to come — which would have the fifth firefighter on it — before they get water on a fire? Is that correct to say?

(05:20:20)

The fifth firefighter speeds up the stretching of the hose lines

(05:20:25)

and putting water on the fire.

(05:20:26)

Right, water does not get on that fire until that second rig arrives?

(05:20:32)

Not necessarily. But is it true that not... not if that

(05:20:39)

first engine stretches the hose line and they are ready to operate — they are going to operate. It happens faster with the fifth firefighter, right?

(05:20:46)

So if it happens faster, what does that mean? Does that mean that the fire does not spread as quickly?

(05:20:52)

We would theoretically put the fire out quicker.

(05:20:54)

Yes. You would mean that lives would be in less danger?

(05:20:59)

Yes. We put the fire out quicker. All right, good. So I

(05:21:01)

think that is a pretty good analysis. So have you conducted any internal analysis or pilot of the fifth firefighter deployment, and if so, what were the results internally?

(05:21:18)

We do not have any formal studies done with it, but anecdotally it would lead to quicker hose stretches and quicker extinguishment of the fire.

(05:21:27)

Thank you. And what is the current average response time that targeted fifth firefighter deployment could address?

(05:21:42)

We do have the average response time to structural fires so far this year. For Manhattan, four minutes 39 seconds. Bronx, four minutes 58 seconds. Brooklyn, four minutes 10 seconds. Queens, five minutes two seconds. And Staten Island, five minutes five seconds.

(05:22:04)

And what was the second part of that question?

(05:22:08)

It was: what is the average response time per borough and does the data show meaningful disparity between boroughs that a targeted fifth firefighter deployment could address? That is one of the key points of discussion about the fifth firefighter. We do not know what impact it would have on response times because it is putting another firefighter on an engine that is already responding.

(05:22:35)

But it does put water on a fire sooner if the first responding rig has a fifth

(05:22:41)

firefighter. Correct. Correct. But that apparatus would theoretically

(05:22:45)

arrive at the same time.

(05:22:48)

Correct. So the more apparatus that have a fifth firefighter on them, the quicker water gets on a fire, and the likelihood of that fire spreading reduces and lives can be saved. I would agree with that. Okay.

(05:23:06)

Geographical need — is there a targeted deployment... I think you just gave us kind of what they

(05:23:13)

were. The present discussion about the fifth firefighter is in the Bronx, in engine companies in the Bronx.

(05:23:22)

Okay, can you provide a breakdown of fire incidences by borough and by engine company over the past three fiscal years?

(05:23:31)

Yes. We have for all engine companies throughout the City a breakdown for fiscal years 23, 24 and 25 of the number of structural and non-structural fires they responded to. And as you can imagine, it is not evenly distributed. We have some very, very busy companies and we have some not so busy companies.

(05:23:58)

Right. So right now the fifth firefighter is in what areas?

(05:24:01)

So we currently have engine companies that have five firefighters, and that is distributed throughout the City in areas that have the types of buildings that generally require longer hose line stretches. So okay, so what are the specific concentrated areas right now? Well, with the fifth firefighter they are spread throughout the City. Every borough has some engines with five

(05:24:29)

firefighters. So do you think that the fifth firefighter should be in concentrated areas? Do you think that model works better than having them placed unevenly throughout the boroughs?

(05:24:45)

They are placed in areas where the building stock requires those longer hose line stretches. Okay, so

(05:24:52)

let us just talk about the Bronx. The Bronx consistently has among the highest rates of structural fires and fire-related fatalities in the City. Does the FDNY's internal data support a targeted fifth firefighter deployment in high-incident boroughs like the Bronx? And secondly, Queens, as you mentioned...

(05:25:16)

We would certainly welcome any additional resources and it could have an impact on putting out those fires quicker. But the fires that we are seeing in the Bronx — putting them out quicker, or the fifth firefighter, is not necessarily a silver bullet to solve all of those problems. Stopping and preventing the fire in the first place,

(05:25:41)

sharing the message about closing the door

(05:25:43)

so that the fire does not spread before we get there —

(05:25:46)

it is a comprehensive approach to deal with this fire problem. And is not the fifth firefighter very, very important, especially in vertical fires and getting the hose up in buildings? More and more in the outer boroughs, not just Manhattan or the Bronx, but in the outer boroughs we are having more and more vertical buildings that are being built. Does that not help in putting out

(05:26:10)

fire? The taller the building, the longer the hose lines, the more impactful that fifth firefighter is. The more we build and the more we have larger buildings in areas that did not necessarily have them, the more we need the fifth firefighter.

(05:26:25)

And that is why this Council is fighting for that. Are there specific engine companies that are statistically overburdened relative to their current staffing, based on call volume, run frequency or simultaneous incident rates? And can you provide that data to the

(05:26:44)

community? Those are the engine companies that historically we provide the fifth firefighter to — the ones that have heavy fire duty in those areas that have the bigger buildings. Would you support a

(05:26:59)

pilot program in the Bronx with a fifth firefighter in 20 of their busiest firehouses? Would you

(05:27:09)

support that? We would welcome that. We would welcome additional resources.

(05:27:12)

Is that something that you are willing to fight with this Council for with the Mamdani administration

(05:27:18)

to fund? We would welcome additional resources to deal with this fire problem that we have.

(05:27:26)

Rather than a binary choice between full citywide deployment and no deployment, has the department evaluated a tiered or phased approach that prioritizes the highest-need companies first? And if you have, how would you prioritize that?

(05:27:44)

The deployment of the...

(05:27:47)

Those fires in the Bronx that we are seeing generally in 6 and 7 story buildings that are over a hundred years old — old building stock. The potential for spreading in those buildings is high. Some of these fires, the fire raced up through the stairway, so it is long hose line stretches.

(05:28:06)

You can compare that to Queens, which in some parts has smaller buildings and shorter hose line stretches. So that fifth firefighter would be much better deployed in areas with larger buildings and longer hose line stretches.

(05:28:23)

And does the Fire Department track instances where companies committed to an active call and a second call comes in, requiring a delayed or cross-district response?

(05:28:32)

That is something that... those busier areas with the companies that are doing more, responding to more incidents — there are times they are on one call and then another company has to come over.

(05:28:45)

One call and then another company has to come over and respond to an incident because that original company is not available. And when that other company comes over, does that not leave a gap in coverage for a large portion of that particular area?

(05:29:03)

The dispatchers in the communications office are able to manage and move resources around the City. So if they do see a gap in coverage, they will move another company over as well.

(05:29:16)

So someone is always without coverage — like if you keep moving them, somebody is always without coverage.

(05:29:25)

If you keep moving, then we continually assess and move resources around.

(05:29:28)

At this point I would like to go over to my panel for questions on the fifth firefighter. Do we have anybody who is next?

(05:29:39)

Okay. Yes. Sorry.

(05:29:41)

Yes, come in. Anybody who wants to talk about the fifth firefighter and who has already spoken, please sign up for the second round.

(05:29:48)

Got it. Council Member Sanchez, followed by Council Member Paladino.

(05:29:50)

Okay. Thank you. I read in the testimony here that the headcount is under budget by about a hundred people. My question is how many of those are uniformed positions and what is the FY27 budget doing to close that gap?

(05:30:11)

So overall, the department is under-budgeted in headcount — total agency — by 706 positions. 316 of that is on the uniform side, driven by firefighters and lieutenants. 290 of that is... and about a hundred of that is civilian, largely because we just got positions added. So unfortunately, because of the promotions to firefighter, although we are trying to staff up as much as possible and are aiming to hire large classes and continue to recruit folks to fill those vacancies, we do expect that it will take us quite some time to achieve budget headcount.

(05:30:54)

Okay, thank you. Regarding 600 ambulances in the field with 30% of them out of service — that is a very high number. Can you talk about what is being done? What is going on? Are you waiting for parts? Is it a budget problem? That is 180 ambulances out of 600 that are out of service.

(05:31:16)

The maximum amount of ambulances that we have in the field at any given time during the two tours that we run during the day is 340. That is distributed throughout the City. Although we have a fleet of 600, that is in case any ambulances are off service — we can replace those ambulances with spares. I see. Okay. Thank you. My final question now is on lithium-ion battery fires. I have never seen so many five-alarm fires in homes involving

(05:31:52)

lithium batteries. How much funding is dedicated specifically to lithium battery enforcement, inspections, public education and specialized firefighting equipment? Can you please talk

(05:32:08)

about it? There is not really a separate funding pot tied to lithium-ion batteries. It is just something that is incorporated into everything. So when our public safety or fire safety education teams go out and do public education, this is one of the topics they cover. Similarly on the fire prevention side, there are a number of staff that work on that. Chief Creo, do you have more to add?

(05:32:34)

Good afternoon, everybody. As Commissioner Crystal said, it is really a comprehensive approach. It is fire safety. It is tied to Local Law 40, working with other agencies to make sure that we do not have unregulated batteries that are being sold out there. It is addressing it as part of a post-fire investigation. We work very closely with the Bureau of Fire Investigation. So it is a really comprehensive approach to be able to deal with that.

And of course the most important thing is education, which has made a marked difference. I think raising the level of awareness so that folks understand — it is really important to make sure that they have batteries that are UL-rated, that it is a complete system: the battery, the battery charger. Not charging it unattended, not charging it by means of egress. So it is really a holistic approach to get to the best safety outcome.

(05:33:37)

Do you think these vehicles should be stored outdoors so they are safer? Are you talking about electric vehicles?

(05:33:48)

Yes, electric bikes or scooters. So what we do is, in terms of vehicles like cars, we do not regulate that. In terms of micro-mobility devices, what we do is make sure that the charging devices and the bike itself — the battery — are up to the standards. That is the safest way to approach it, to make sure that when those standards are implemented, whether they are charged outside or inside, or in battery charging cabinets, we make sure that they are at a very high level of safety standard.

(05:34:26)

Thank you.

(05:34:27)

Okay, great. Council Member Paladino, followed by

(05:34:34)

Restler. Thank you very much. I want to go back, if I could, just for a moment, and then I will move on. On the fifth firefighter — I expected to see and hear a lot more enthusiasm about the fifth firefighter, because there was such an uproar when Bloomberg let those 55 firefighters go. I thought today I would hear a lot more enthusiasm. As the chair asked about it, I saw a very laid-back approach as to the importance of the fifth firefighter. I was a little surprised by that.

(05:35:11)

Thank you, Council Member. The fifth firefighter and the staffing is currently part of the contract with the City that talks about the number and the medical leave level. But what we are trying to do — the priority in the Fire Department — is we are trying to stabilize, and we are really focused more on stabilizing the staffing levels.

(05:35:46)

The ambulance availability, the response times — making sure that we are able to fill our recruit classes so that we can have ambulances arrive on scene in a timely manner. Okay, good enough. Also, I am going to circle back to a question I asked a while back when we first started these hearings. I am curious — I am just one Council Member, and as one Council Member I have given close to a million dollars of our money to the Fire Department, and that went for generators and other very important vehicles and such. I am wondering where that money is and when the Fire Department is going to see the two that I did fully fund and the generators. I am sure it is not just myself — like I said, I am just one of 50. I am sure other Council Members have done the same. We can follow up on those specific projects and get back to you. The third time I have heard that — it is okay, but please get back to me, because it is a lot of money. And I think, as I said, I am one of 50, so I am sure there is a lot of money floating out there in the millions of dollars that we need to account for. Also, your budget says that you have achieved savings without harming your ability to carry out the mission of protecting life and property, and that you strive to provide the best possible service to the people of New York. You most certainly have done that. Thank you.

(05:37:29)

For all of that. I understand that we are all working under somewhat of a tight, shoestring budget this year. I want to know how much of a shoestring budget — are we not working with a shoestring budget at all? How much is your budget so far for this year? Overall budget, do you know? My name is Paul.

(05:37:55)

I just want to pull it up. How are you? Good. I am sorry. I just wanted to go back on your generator questions. So we have that generator — generators for Engine Company 295 specifically. Yes. That project is currently in design, which is currently complete, and we are rolling right into construction at the beginning of FY27. Good. FY27, which means July 1, 2027, so you can expect to see movement right after July 1. Yeah. And Engine 55 — yes, we reached out to all involved and obtained their... I mean, thank you for that.

(05:38:34)

I appreciate it. As far as the overall budget goes, we are in the process of signing a budget on the thirtieth of $124.7 billion. And anybody who knows me knows I am a bit in an uproar about that, because I like to see where the money is going. You guys are certainly entitled to major upgrades to your firehouses structurally, your vehicles — all around, you guys are entitled to pretty big investment. If we are going to increase the budget by $14 billion total, if we are going to be increasing the budget to that kind of money, I just am curious before I vote on the thirtieth: where is our money going? So our FY27 expense budget is about $2.7 billion and our capital budget going from FY26 through FY35 is about $1.9 billion. Okay, so let us add those two numbers: $1.9 plus $2.7 is $4.6 billion for the Fire Department out of $124.7 billion. I think that is outrageous. That is all I will say about that. Thank you very

(05:39:58)

much. Thank you. Restler, followed by...

(05:40:00)

Not in a good way. Tough act to follow. I will do my best. Thank you to the chairs and congratulations, Commissioner. I am really excited to have you in this role. Somebody who brings expertise to the agency right now is urgently needed. I also just want to take a second to congratulate the promotion of my friend and, most importantly, constituent Jason Shelly, Deputy Commissioner — very well deserved. He has been such an anchor in the Fire Department for better than a decade. We are really lucky to have him there.

So just a few questions. I have been deeply concerned by the fires that we have been seeing across our City. I know we have had a concentration of them in the Bronx that have been fatal, and it is terribly scary. I am grateful for all the work that the members do to keep us safe, but I also want to make sure that we are smartly investing resources that can make the greatest difference to prevent fires from taking lives and ruining property.

So just to confirm, Chief — I believe I heard in your testimony that we have got 20 engines right now that have a fifth firefighter deployed. Yes, there are 20 engines. And there is no data that we have whatsoever to show that a fifth firefighter improves or does not improve outcomes one way or the other — response times? No. Just to confirm, this is what you testified to earlier. I just want to get this clear. Not response times, but we know that they stretch and operate hose lines quicker — but no impact on getting fires under control faster with the fifth person or not?

(05:41:40)

We have no data to back this up, other than your own expertise?

(05:41:43)

Because we do not have that many five-firefighter engines to see — there are 20, but understood. If there is no data, there is no data. I just want to know: what would the cost be, Deputy Commissioner, to adding a fifth firefighter

(05:41:57)

citywide? We are currently in conversations on that point.

(05:42:01)

But it is an estimate that you should be able to come up with pretty directly. Could you give us a ballpark?

(05:42:07)

We would defer to the budget director, who I believe is testifying. You cannot give us an estimate of what it would cost? We know how many firehouses there are, we know how many engines there are — adding a fifth firefighter, what would that cost us ballpark? I think you know this number. The Council has cost estimates that are not out of line with what...

(05:42:24)

What are those? The Council has said it could... could you get those to us just for the purpose of the conversation? What are the Council's cost estimates? We can follow up. No, come on. We are at a hearing. We are asking basic questions on the record. What are the Council's cost estimates? I am not asking you to give the estimate. What is the cost estimate?

(05:42:53)

A Council Member has asked a direct question and he deserves an answer. So if you do not have it now, we have plenty of time to sit and wait, and then you can get that answer for him. It is rude to sit there and not answer a direct question from an elected official who came here today to represent his constituency, whether you like the question or not. So let us work on getting that information for Council Member Restler. I know you have signed up for a second round, Council Member Restler, but if

(05:43:26)

you have other questions, go ahead. Okay. Council Member, do you have other questions to ask? I am just waiting because I really do want an answer here, but we will come back to it on

(05:43:40)

the second round. I am sorry. I do not mean to point...

(05:43:43)

I will shift gears and come back to my questions on the fifth firefighter later. Commissioner, we have had some challenges with coordination on the bike lanes.

(05:43:58)

Does the Fire Department support protected bike lanes?

(05:44:03)

Yeah, so we are a lifesaving agency. That is our mission. Our core mission is to save lives, and we appreciate the fact that bike lanes put people in a safer place and they save lives. So yeah, the Fire Department has no problem with bike lanes. Thank you.

(05:44:22)

There are going to be situations where maneuvering around them is an issue, and in those circumstances we have already started having conversations with DOT

(05:44:34)

to resolve those issues together. We sent you a letter to this effect and I do not think we have got a commitment on a time frame. Council Member Ariola passed legislation requiring coordination between the Fire Department and bike lanes. There has been some litigation around this as well. Can we get a commitment from the Fire Department that, barring extraordinary circumstances, the feedback can be provided within 30 days? We are going to try our very, very best. Having these additional staff is definitely going to help speed things along, but sometimes, you know, part of it is not only the process — it is not only the Fire Department, I would say, that slows things down. It can be a more complex thing that needs to be reviewed and takes a little longer. But we certainly will commit that we will do our best to get them a timely response.

(05:45:25)

Okay, and we are working very well together. I mean, we are talking together and solving problems together. We have seen some reduction in turnaround times. But the chair asked me to be brief in this round and I have already gone over. I will just say I appreciate the improved coordination. I think having a time commitment that, barring extraordinary circumstances or a really complex project, is getting back to DOT in a certain time frame really matters for planning and execution, because there is a set time frame in the year — about six months — in which they can install these projects. We lose the window and lose a year of safety that we could otherwise gain if we are getting timely responsiveness from the Fire Department. So I hope we can work together to have some real accountability there.

(05:46:11)

Yeah, I can assure you we are working well together. Thank you.

(05:46:15)

And Council Member Restler, I have you on for round two, so do not worry.

(05:46:21)

Okay. So just quickly — we can agree that it is your job and your mission to put out fires, right? And you acknowledge that fires go out faster with additional staffing. Do we agree on that? Yes or no?

(05:46:40)

Yes. As a general statement, yes. Thank you.

(05:46:45)

Okay. Council Member Justin Sanchez, followed by

(05:46:46)

Sanchez. Thank you all. First and foremost, I want to say thank you to all the firefighters for all of the work that you do day in and day out. Also, happy Pride Month. I know nothing has to deal with sexuality, but representation matters and there are people all over the City and this country that get to see someone like you and feel represented. So thank you for the work that you do as well.

Aside from that, back to the fifth firefighters. Representing the South Bronx and as a proud co-chair of the Bronx delegation, this is truly important to us. We sent over a letter on February 10 in partnership with Council Member Ariola and the Bronx Borough President. But I want to go deeper. You said there are already 20 fire stations that have

(05:46:49)

this fifth firefighter, but they are dependent on the height of the buildings — the more floors, the more firefighters. So is it safe to say that these 20 fire stations are located in downtown Brooklyn and midtown Manhattan? Some of them are, but it is not necessarily high-rise buildings, right? It is buildings that have longer hose line

(05:47:32)

stretches. And in high-rise buildings we operate off a standpipe, which is generally a shorter stretch than stretching off the

(05:47:56)

apparatus. Is there

(05:48:04)

...

(05:48:07)

Is there any way to identify where these 20 firehouses are? Yes, we have them, we can provide that

(05:48:14)

for you. How many of those are

(05:48:15)

currently in the Bronx? I am not sure. Do we have that kind of breakdown?

(05:48:33)

Currently 44 of the engine companies in the Bronx have five firefighters.

(05:48:38)

How many engine companies

(05:48:39)

are in the Bronx in total? I think we have 30. So how many

(05:48:47)

fires have happened in these

(05:48:49)

areas that have the fifth firefighter

(05:48:52)

already during the course of this past year?

(05:48:58)

I will have to get that for you. So you are asking the number of fires that the engines where there are five firefighters — the number of fires they have gone to. Yes, we will have to get that for you. Thank you.

(05:49:08)

Can we have that by the second round? We need that information. We need the information answered. We asked you to come prepared, so saying we will get the information is not going to be tolerated. Find the information and answer. We have the breakdown of the engines and the fires they have had the last three fiscal

(05:49:30)

years. Basically, what I am trying to get to with my line of questioning is: have there been enough fires where these fifth firefighters are to justify them being there? If we move the firefighters over to cover different things, we would move the fire

(05:49:49)

companies. So based on the data that you already have, based on the fires, has there been any indication that would suggest that moving some of the stations that have a fifth firefighter to other stations in the Bronx that are experiencing higher fire rates — would there be any type of movement from the stations that are not experiencing fires versus the ones that are?

(05:50:14)

I guess we could have that discussion, but they are all going to fires. Okay, but it is just that if the fifth firefighter is reducing times and reducing the ability...

(05:50:25)

I completely understand that. You know, the calls for fire and the prevention is not about a fifth firefighter. That is not what we are saying. The housing stock and the infrastructure — but we are not going to change the housing stock overnight.

(05:50:39)

It is physically and literally impossible. But what we can do is cut down response times to what we actually do with the fire. I understand that question. But then you also have to see the reality that there are other Council members here that if we take one of the five-firefighter engines from their area, we are going to get the same issue.

(05:50:59)

Well, I think just showing from Staten Island to Brooklyn to the Bronx, we are seeing a concerned, unifying voice about the fact that everyone is recognizing the number of fires the Bronx is going through. We have been on this since the very beginning. I know this fight has been happening now for 15 years, but from when we started as the Bronx delegation co-chair, this has been a major fight. So understanding that combating fire response times in the Bronx is our top priority — making sure that if there are other places that are not having a single fire or minimal fires compared to what we are experiencing every day... I get the all-hands notices every day on my email, multiple times a day. If we are able to move those firefighters around, that also does tremendous things for the ability to take care of our fellow Bronx residents. So thank you.

(05:51:50)

Thank you. Peace and love.

(05:51:52)

Thank you. Thank you, cousin — it will not get old. Maybe in a couple of years, but thank you. Chair, thank you for the unrelenting questions on the fifth firefighter. I have to join the Chief. I have to join the Commissioner. But before I do that, I just want to echo my colleagues in thanking the firefighters who jump at the flames, who are there. I feel like I live right next to a battalion and the sirens are just nonstop. So thank you to our firefighters.

But it does feel like the Bronx is burning. It feels like the Bronx is burning again. I uplift the nearly 15 New Yorkers we have already lost this year. Highlighting Chief — I would love some clarity during this hearing. In a private briefing with the Bronx delegation some weeks ago, you shared that fires have nearly doubled over the last three years in the Bronx and Queens for the time period that we were in. So I would love to just get updated numbers on that.

Then specifically — and I should highlight for you, I am going to do the thing where I ask all my questions and then hopefully leave five seconds to respond, but I just want to make sure to get them all in and I am sure you will be able to capture them. We had a fatal fire at 2226 West Fremont last weekend. A one-year-old passed away on Bainbridge Avenue, on the block where I grew up. So it really feels in the Bronx, in my neighborhood, that this is just relentless.

My view is that we need a multi-pronged approach. We need to first make sure that our first responders have the resources for the fastest response to put out fires as fast as possible. We have to address things like the blocked fire hydrants that you keep raising with us in conversations. But second, we need to also expand public education immediately — the things that you raised during the press conference, like closing the doors that were not closed behind you. We need to make sure we are highlighting that and reaching the audiences in the Bronx, in Queens, in the neighborhoods that are really impacted.

But third — and this is where I am the Chair of the Housing Committee on the Council — we have to make sure we are having a conversation that also puts the onus on the owners of these old properties to address the failing systems leading to these fires. 2226 West Fremont is an old building. That owner is the fourth worst in the City of New York. In the last year, the building had 13 violations for defective and missing smoke detectors, which means that the residents were calling it in. In the last two weeks there were violations for self-closing doors.

So the second question — the first question was about data, the second question is about interagency coordination. How is FDNY sharing everything in real time that you are seeing about fires and causes? How are you talking about that with the Department of Buildings and crafting new policies and new interventions to address the root causes?

Finally, as we talk about the infrastructure in these buildings, I just want to make sure that that is also a part of the conversation. I think I mentioned this to you, Commissioner and Chief, in some of the meetings we had. When FDNY has all the press in front of you because there has been a fatal fire and there has been a tragedy, just make sure that the agency does not then only talk about the self-closing doors and the smoke detectors — the interventions that the tenants are responsible for — because that feels like blaming the victims. By only focusing on those causes, it feels like blame on our people in the Bronx. I want to make sure that FDNY is doing right by us and talking about what owners can

(05:55:53)

do. So one: data to follow up on. I am forgetting what my second question was, but I am sure you captured it and I will bring it back around if you did not.

(05:56:04)

I will just take a couple and then the Chief could jump in here. So on the collaboration between FDNY and other agencies — we are collaborating and there is no strategy that we will not try to get this message out there. We have done collaborative work. I have done events with the DOB Commissioner. The Mayor himself put out messaging for us. We had him do a video because he has a large following, so he has done that. We are working together to try to solve a problem because we know that lives are attached to this. We know that people are going to die if we do not get this message out, if they do not understand how to behave if they actually get into a fire situation.

Now we do not want them to get into a fire situation, which is why we talk about things like overloading outlets, overloading power strips. We talk about not putting your space heaters too close to things that are combustible. I can appreciate what you are saying as far as how we talk about this when we are in the press. There are a couple of things we have to hit. We have to give people strategies so that they can share that information amongst themselves if they get into an emergency situation. It is not intended to put blame on anybody. But if we have situations where these violations exist and our fire prevention folks go in there and write up the violations — if those violations already exist, telling the owners is not necessarily going to solve the problem. Telling the people

(05:58:04)

what they should be getting, informing them of how their door should work, how their apartment is supposed to have smoke alarms — that is the stuff that gets them calling 311, gets them reporting the building, reporting issues to the supers and the landlords. We want them to be as educated as possible and we will do anything we can to try to keep these folks safe. We give smoke alarms, we install smoke alarms. We want people to know that if you need smoke alarms we can do that for you. You can call 311 and say I need smoke alarms and we can come and make that happen. We want people to know that their doors are supposed to close behind them. A lot of people rig it so it does not, because they do not want to get locked out if they walk out into the hallway. We want them to know these things because these are the things that keep them safe. So we certainly do not want to put blame on the victim, but we do want to educate the victim

(05:59:04)

and give them as much information so that they can share it with their families and friends and be safe if, God forbid, they end up in a position where they are trying to survive a fire situation. As far as the data, the Chief can give the data.

(05:59:21)

So for multiple alarm fires in the Bronx: as of May 13 this year we have had 27 multiple alarm fires. On May 13, 2025 we were at 16. May 13, 2024 we were at 12. So a significant increase, as we have said before.

(05:59:47)

Thank you, Chair. Just as a quick follow-up — we are on the same team here. We want New Yorkers to be safe and avoid these situations.

(05:59:58)

On that note, FDNY, you folks throw yourselves at the hardship, you throw yourselves at the emergency. So let me take it to a different place, which is: what information does FDNY share with Buildings, and are you actively at the FDNY executive level talking about — hey, buildings are having electrical shorts all over the place, you all should really have this in your scopes of work when you are putting out preservation grants or tax incentives? Are you having that conversation with your sister agencies? Because as the Housing Chair, it does not feel like what we are getting on the Council — the scopes of work that we are approving for tax incentives are not covering these electrical causes of fire. So I just want to understand what that conversation looks like.

(06:00:50)

Thank you for your question. We recently met with the DOB Commissioner and discussed those issues. Electrical fires have been a consistently leading cause of fire within the City and our buildings continue to get older and older, and we continue to see these electrical fires. We are working on developing new technologies that potentially alert us to fires prior to them occurring. There are some hopeful items out there that we are going to work on, and we will work with some national laboratories. We have already consulted with Underwriters Laboratories to try to develop some of these products for use within the City.

(06:01:28)

Obviously we are a huge city with a complicated set of buildings. We are one of the oldest cities in the nation. So we do work with other agencies as well to make sure that we address these problems prior to them starting. As to the Commissioner's point, we never want to blame anybody for any actions that caused these fires, but we do want to make sure we take that risk with the idea that somebody else will not die. Fire prevention — those are tremendous jobs: writing violations prior to the fire as well as after the fire. So we do do a post-fire inspection and all those violations do go to the owner of the building.

(06:02:11)

A lot of those issues that we address at the press conference are directly related to the fire that just occurred right before that press conference. So we want to strike while the iron is hot. Some of those things we do not know at the time of the press conference either. Like, we have our marshals go out and they investigate whether the smoke detectors were installed properly — that is not information we have at the time of those press conferences. So we want to make sure that we get the information out to the building residents immediately so that it does not occur again.

(06:02:42)

Thank you. Thank you, Chairs, for the time.

(06:02:44)

Thank you. Okay, we have CM Maloney, followed by... the question is just about high-rise buildings because there are a lot... wait. Maloney. Sorry, CM Maloney. Sorry. Go ahead.

(06:03:03)

All right. Thank you for being here. I wanted to return to the question about retention and the career pipeline. One of the challenges you have already alluded to is significant workforce turnover and difficulties with both recruitment and retention. What percent of EMS are leaving each year and what percent of those leaving are heading to FDNY fire?

(06:03:38)

So the attrition rate last year was about 10.9% and the annualized rate is 14.3%. That is much higher than it would be in a year in which there were firefighter promotions. So in years without firefighter promos the attrition rate is closer to seven or 8%. Okay, so roughly what percent would you say is converting to fire roles?

(06:04:09)

Converting to fire during

(06:04:12)

a promotion cycle, which is multiple classes — they are all coming from a promo list, so they go consecutively. We will shift about 25% of the

(06:04:24)

workforce into fire. And what percent of the incoming

(06:04:30)

firefighter academy class then would be from EMS? It will be a promotion class for the most part, so that entire group of people who left will end up being the probationary class in the fire academy.

(06:04:47)

And is the training

(06:04:50)

different or the same for those two roles? They are different focuses. So you know where

(06:04:59)

the people coming from EMS have been certified as EMTs and paramedics every four years in order to maintain their positions. Once they go into the fire academy, then they are taught fire tactics, they are taught firefighting curriculum. You could talk a little bit more about what you are teaching them, but it is specific to the job that they are doing. When it comes to an operational perspective,

(06:05:34)

once they have moved over from EMS to fire, outside of the CFR engine, they are no longer doing paramedic-level work. They are doing firefighting work, which is the stuff that they learned in the fire academy. The current probie class that we have in the fire academy is all promotions.

(06:05:56)

Later in the year we will hire another class that 60 to 70% will be promotions. What they learn in the fire academy, whether you came from EMS or not, the curriculum is the same and it is all about firefighting operations. EMS does not currently have that.

(06:06:20)

And just so we are clear: once those folks become firefighters, they are no longer working on an ambulance in any way. They are not able to go across from fire to EMS. So asking both questions together — one is, have you considered if it would be more cost effective to close that promotional pathway if the training is different? And then the other is: what role does compensation and increasing that compensation play, and would it be more cost effective than continuously investing in recruiting and trying to train new people

(06:07:03)

if you are cycling out 10 to 14% right? So there has been lots of discussion about the promotion pathway from EMS because it does take such a large chunk at one date range and puts them into another area of the department. However, because of that promotion process, people come to EMS. In order to be eligible

(06:07:35)

for promotion, you have to work at EMS for four years. So what generally happens is somebody who wants to be a firefighter will come in through EMS, spend their four years and then look to promote into fire. So if I were to close that promotion process, that segment of people that come to EMS to become firefighters would no longer have a reason to come to EMS. So without there being some significant compensation so that if you were a paramedic, you can make a choice as to whether you want to stay at EMS or become a firefighter — that is the pay parity part. If the money was in place so that people did not have to leave to go to fire to make more money, then the expectation is those people would stay in EMS and we would have to train far fewer people. Because right now we are training constantly and it is pretty costly to continue to train and to move people from one area of the department to the other area of the department.

(06:08:47)

And just to close out, I know I am out of time, but do you have an estimate of what those costs are on the recruiting and training end? So it costs $41,000 to train coming in the door a new employee. For a paramedic it costs $130,000. And we train our EMTs to become paramedics, so there are people that work for us who are being upgraded to paramedic. That is $130,000. For refresher training, which is what happens every four years, for an EMT it is $6,300 and for a medic it is $9,000. So essentially we would save money if we were able to keep people longer rather than having to keep bringing them in at the entry level.

(06:09:41)

Thank you. Okay, great. So round two. We have...

(06:09:44)

CM Brewer, followed by CM... sorry for the mistake earlier. My question: just tall buildings. Some of your previous commissioners will bring to my attention that on the Upper West Side there are developers who want to build to the sky, and the comment was we just do not have enough capacity to deal with these supertalls. Obviously we want development, or some people want a lot of development. I want lower development. And yet I really have no concept of whether or not what was said in the past is true. Is this something you are thinking about? Is there something that you are concerned about with the supertalls, which seem to be proliferating? So I am just wanting your opinion on that. And then I did not say earlier, I do not think that in participatory budgeting without a new system on letter 25 on 77th Street, so West Siders just love your members as well, that you...

(06:10:45)

Know. Thank you. But in terms of supertalls...

(06:10:53)

So since the turn of this century, the building materials and building technology has allowed us to build smaller buildings but much taller than we have historically been able to. One of the issues that we face with that is it could take us longer to get from the sidewalk upstairs than it does to get from the firehouse to the scene. So we do look at response times. But these are newer built buildings. They have auxiliary fire protection systems that are generally more fire safe than the older buildings that we are talking about and generally have fewer fire incidents in them. They might have more emergencies and the same response time challenge to be able to get upstairs to provide life saving services.

(06:11:49)

So you are saying in terms of the fire, not the emergency heart attack or whatever, but a fire, that you are feeling that...

(06:11:56)

They are safe is what you are saying? Well, they are more fire safe than some of the older buildings that we have.

(06:12:03)

All right, well I appreciate that. I wish you had said the opposite because I cannot stand them. But thank you very much.

(06:12:09)

CM Wong, followed by...

(06:12:10)

CM Restler, thank you. Do you have figures on how many have left to become firefighters versus how many to become paramedics over the past year? And is the pay gap the reason, or what can we do to improve the retention...

(06:12:35)

Rate? Thank you. So I think I have those numbers, although I might have to look up some of them. So just in terms of how many members have left: over the last three firefighter classes we have lost 506 members. And I just want to emphasize, EMTs do not leave the job to become paramedics. They are promoted to paramedic after going through rigorous training, so they still stay on. Each paramedic class, we run approximately two a year, and we graduate about 70 from each one of those classes.

(06:13:21)

We have been talking about this since the last hearing. How do we fix this retention rate? Is that being considered in the current budget year or is this still something that is not solved?

(06:13:34)

The commissioner has said it multiple times that one of the things that would help us with retention is pay being increased. We have members who are out there dedicated every single day that deserve to be compensated for the work that they do. Right here in the room, we have an incentive program. Every single month we have what we call a unit of the month program. For the first time ever this month, the same unit from the Bronx has won that title two months in a row, and just two of those members happen to be sitting right here. I wish your counterpart was here because they actually come from his district.

So I think we need to recognize the work that our paramedics do and they should be compensated for it. But in the current budget the pay levels remained the same, is that right? Yes. So as of this point, these conversations are still happening between the EMS unions and the FDNY. They are in contract negotiations now and I do not have a seat at that table. It is an ongoing conversation. It is a conversation we continue to bring light to because we do believe it is step one to stabilizing the system, which as the chief spoke about is a real thing. I think at this point we need to stabilize our system and the pay is going to be one of those things that sets us on the right path to get that done.

(06:15:19)

And possibly then we can look at the promotion process. So if there is an option to stay, somebody will take that. But right now we have a 17,000-person department who are willing to do just about anything to keep New Yorkers safe. They will do it in good weather and bad weather, they will do it any time of year. As you have seen over the last winter we had, which was extraordinarily cold and which caused a lot of the fires we are seeing now, or you see it during a pandemic, which was incredibly challenging, the Fire Department never turns their back on New Yorkers.

So at this point we have to prepare ourselves and build this department in a way that provides these services for the next five decades for New York. That is what this conversation is about: trying to make sure that we can have a robust and sustained system that provides those services. But we have a budget process that is done in 30 days, and what you are saying is that we do not know how to fix this pay issue until the contract negotiations have definite terms, and that is going to take a lot longer than the 30 days that I am putting together the budget. Is that right?

(06:16:41)

Well, I will say that those conversations are ongoing and this has been part of the Fire Department for 30 years and has been unresolved. So I am guessing in the next 30 days it probably will not be resolved, but I do hope that we get to a point where we resolve it sooner rather than later.

(06:17:00)

Okay, thank you.

(06:17:02)

Thank you. Thanks so much. So let us try again for a fresh take. Approximately how much would a fifth firefighter cost if it were to be implemented citywide? The City Council has released an estimated number of $92 million for 86 companies. That is about half of the companies. It would be $173 million if you were to expand it citywide. Do those estimates seem roughly accurate based on your assessment?

(06:17:34)

For order of magnitude purposes?

(06:17:35)

So roughly we are talking about $180 million to go citywide with a fifth firefighter. That would be the City Council's estimate.

(06:17:43)

And no independent perspective from the Fire Department? You think that is roughly, broad strokes, a reasonable estimate?

(06:17:49)

We have some estimates and we are working on it. I really appreciate it and I do not mean to cut you off. You are one of the best finance directors at any agency in the City, so I know you know the answers to all these questions, and I will push because there are some folks that could sit up on this panel and would not be able to answer questions. You are not one of them. So I appreciate you coming back to us.

(06:18:18)

And I really appreciate, Commissioner, you coming in with a very forceful position on supporting EMS workers. On orders of magnitude, there have been a range of approaches on pay equity. I know that it is subject to negotiations, but can you speak to the range of costs that have been discussed to improve compensation?

(06:18:42)

So this is not speaking to the range, but I know that we have deferred to OMB on what it would cost. Maybe just to put some context around what the scale is: the average EMS salary, looking at base salary plus additions to gross but not including overtime, is $57,494. The average firefighter's base salary plus additions to gross with no overtime is $109,930. So it is almost double. It is 91%...

(06:19:14)

Higher. And so if we were to double the salary of every EMS worker, which I do not think is the likely outcome, but something along those lines, how much would that cost? Do you have a broad sense? I mean, I have seen estimates that have ranged from advocates advocating for increases in wages from $80 million up to $200 million or even more potential over a multi-year period.

(06:19:36)

Comparable numbers. Numbers that are in a similar ballpark to what we could be talking about for a fifth firefighter. Considering how dire the situation is with EMT worker retention, in a world of limited resources I really do hope that we focus on fixing this crisis. The fact that after five years an EMT makes more than $59,000 is disgraceful. My starting salary in my office is north of that. Frankly, these are kids coming out of college who are great and bright and amazing and I am lucky to have them, but a person who has spent five years saving lives across the City of New York deserves more and deserves better. So I really...

(06:20:13)

And then coming back: if we were to add a fifth firefighter at a cost of approximately $180 million citywide, I will ask the commissioner or chief, if you were handed a bucket of $180 million in cash and were told that you could do anything in your power to reduce fire fatalities in the City of New York, is hiring a fifth firefighter at the top of your list? Do you think that would have the greatest impact? That is what we are looking at. We are trying to figure out what would have the greatest impact. It would have an...

(06:20:43)

Impact. I do not know if that would be the greatest impact in every company around the city. I imagine that if I had that bucket of money, certainly pay would be at the top of the list.

(06:20:56)

I certainly appreciate that too. I share that priority. We are on the same page. For the narrower purpose of the question of how do we address what we have, which is a crisis of fires in the Bronx and situations that need to be resolved: fire prevention investments, investments to address the most concerning housing stock. There are a variety of different targeted ways that we could probably smartly spend a whole lot less resources that could have a bigger impact in reducing fatalities from fire than a fifth firefighter at an extraordinary cost of $180 million citywide. Is that fair? I think that is fair.

So recognizing that, and also recognizing that you said the fifth firefighter's greatest impact is getting the hose out and getting water on the fire, stuck in the Bronx in six- and seven-story buildings, is that the height of buildings where we need to get that fifth firefighter in place? Are those the areas that you would prioritize as having the greatest impact?

(06:21:52)

As a general statement, yes. It is a longer hose line stretched 75 feet. 70 to 75 feet tall is the height of a building above which you need a standpipe in it, which is different from a stretch from the apparatus.

(06:22:07)

And then just to make sure I have this right on the record: you said that the response times in Queens and Staten Island are slower than in the Bronx. The Bronx was four minutes 58 seconds, Queens was five minutes two seconds and Staten Island five minutes five seconds. The Bronx was ranked third in terms of response time citywide. Did I have those right? Yes, that is the average response time to structural...

(06:22:49)

Fires. Okay.

(06:22:50)

I really appreciate the responses. I am sorry to get frustrated earlier. I just think in a world where we have limited resources we want to invest them in the places they are going to make the greatest difference in saving lives. We do have a crisis in the Bronx that I am very committed to advocating for with my colleagues. I have seen Council members in particular out on site with the men and women of the FDNY in just dire situations. We do need to do more up there. I just want to make sure we are spending our money smartly. That is an extraordinary expense that we do not have data to back up the difference that it would make. So I hope we can be smart about how we prioritize things from here. Thank you.

(06:23:28)

Thank you. So I know that you said that you do not have any real data about a fifth firefighter and whether or not the fifth firefighter helps. We have opinions that we have been sharing back and forth, but there have been independent studies done. I do have one here where it notes that a fifth firefighter makes a difference by eliminating kinks and drag, which you know the lingo, and enables the hose...

(06:24:01)

Shuffle, frees the pump operator, puts water faster on the fire and reduces firefighter fatigue. Would you agree with that? I think that is an accurate statement.

(06:24:18)

Getting more staffing in the busiest companies will put a line in place quicker, limit the spread of a fire and the loss of life and the displacement of residents, while at the same time reducing the strain on firefighters operating on that fire. Would you agree with that?

(06:24:38)

As a general statement, yes. Okay. I am going to move on. Does the Fire Department have a platform that tracks and prioritizes work order requests?

(06:24:49)

Asset management program. I did not hear you. Yes, we do. We have an asset management...

(06:24:59)

Program. Okay. And do you use the Niederman systems as well?

(06:25:04)

Yes, we have a data management system, a Niederman system. And how many systems are inoperable right now? Zero. They are all operable. Yes. Okay. All right.

(06:25:19)

Okay. The FDNY has publicly cited a substantial backlog of capital projects.

(06:25:27)

Yet the financial plan pushes the vast majority of the facilities funding to the out years. Meanwhile, we have identified a list of firehouses with severely deteriorating roofs, of which only six projects have been funded to date. We have serious concerns about deferred maintenance, the adequacy of near-term capital funding and the administration's reliance on Council member allocations to fund what could be core infrastructure.

(06:25:57)

Do you have an amount needed to repair all capital projects and have you requested that from the administration?

(06:26:11)

To talk about facilities funding in general: our current capital plan includes $994 million for facilities across fiscal years 26 through 35. The funding is split pretty evenly between the first five years and the last five years. It is actually slightly front-loaded, so FY26 through 30 is $553 million whereas the last five years is $441 million. But even with that, we have many facilities. We have over 400 buildings and they are old. The average age of our firehouses is approaching 100 years old. So our state of good repair needs have exceeded our budget.

I think we are seeing the budget move in the right direction. This plan includes an additional $24 million for roofs. We have also seen that our capital funding for facilities over the last five years has nearly doubled. We have seen significant additions to our budget over the last five years. Yet many firehouses remain in disrepair.

(06:27:22)

A few of which the commissioner, our chief and certainly Council members were out there looking at. So how can you take this pool of funding that is pushed into the out years and encourage the administration to bring that...

(06:27:48)

Funding forward? We do work on project accelerations and the executive budget did include some funding accelerations on the facilities side. It included accelerating into next year renovations at one of our fleet maintenance buildings, which will expand capacity. It included accelerations into FY28 for multi-component renovations at Station David. It included acceleration into FY27 to replace the apparatus floor at Engine Company 100 and into FY27 to replace air compressors at our mask services unit.

I think there are lots of projects that we are looking at to see if there is potential for acceleration. Bandwidth is a part of this too. The additional civilian headcount that was added in this plan will be incredibly beneficial towards getting more projects done. That will allow us to hire more trade staff in facilities to make repairs and will help with our project management capability and will help with procurement. We have lost a lot of procurement staff and adding back some of those folks will help get those design and construction contracts that we need to get that capital work moving done faster.

(06:29:14)

So realistically, we are not going to see any of this money anytime soon.

(06:29:17)

Because once it goes into the far out years like FY35 it oftentimes evaporates, as you know, because we have a lot of firehouses you said are nearing 100 years old.

(06:29:26)

And there has not been a nickel put into them in 100 years and we have seen the result of that, which is complete deterioration. We have work orders in for 25 years that have not been fulfilled and we will get into that later on. We have identified a list of firehouses with severely deteriorating roofs, totaling approximately an estimated need as of 2024. With costs now escalating further, so that is the other problem as we push further into the out years. The cost of fixing that firehouse, that issue, that station is much larger, so we do not have the money to cover it fully and a lot of it gets eaten up in the design process, and that is what we are trying to stop.

(06:30:20)

Six of those projects have since been funded.

(06:30:24)

Right. Engine 62, 96, 56, 64, 3 or 429. That is right. Okay. What is the status of the remaining underfunded roof projects by the list that my office gave to the Fire Department, and when does the department expect to address them?

(06:30:48)

So first we just want to express our appreciation because one of those roofs was sponsored by you, Council Member. Actually, several of those roofs were funded by Council members. So there was funding provided by Council Member Reilly, Darius and... and you were also instrumental in getting some of that roof funding added for the big house, which was another one of the roofs on the list. So for the remaining roofs, that is what the funding that was added for the six roofs...

(06:31:18)

...will go towards. It will help us prioritize the next six roofs that are unfunded. We do have some roof projects already underway, which I will defer to the Commissioner to talk about.

(06:31:31)

Thank you. Hi. Thank you. We definitely do have some roof work on the way. Some are already completed or nearing completion. That would be Engine Company 125, 261, Engine Company 54, Engine 74 and 301. We are constantly assessing the conditions of our roofs with our trade staff and we do as much of the work with OMB to accelerate that funding if possible. Okay. And as you mentioned, a lot of those roofs that are already funded came from Council members that were funding in their own districts. On the big house, Council Member Brooks-Powers advocated for that. I advocated for that and we saw the disrepair there, but the...

(06:32:19)

...funding is fully there. But why is it always on the City Council? Why does the administration not take care of their buildings? When we visited buildings throughout the five boroughs, the condition of those buildings, if visited by the Fire Department or anyone, no one would be able to inhabit them, and that is a problem. So many of the buildings on this list that we provided for you, which I am looking to see here... okay, none of which made your list. Okay. You know, were constructed between 1895 and 1929. The Fire Department has to advocate for these projects, not just rely on the City Council. So how many of these projects were sent by the Fire Department to the administration asking for funding to complete them? Just the six?

(06:33:29)

So we have had conversations with OMB and City Hall on all of our capital needs, and so they are certainly aware of the condition of our facilities and the broad needs that we have identified for them. But we do operate under funding constraints and so the six are sort of the priority ones that have been identified and funded. Right, but they...

(06:33:55)

...will not even be addressed until 2035. Is that correct? The funding is currently in fiscal...

(06:34:02)

...31 and we are currently assessing to see if it is possible to accelerate. All right. And on the list that the...

(06:34:09)

...office provided you, how many of those projects did you send to Council members when you were asking for budget priority requests? We can double check, but probably quite a few of them.

(06:34:28)

Anybody here got a request? Okay, none of us. Okay. I see that CM Hudson has come back into the room and I am going to defer to her right now for her to ask her questions. Thank...

(06:34:46)

...you so much, Chairs, and I appreciate it. I had to run to another meeting, so apologies, and please do tell me if these questions have been asked. But I do want to just jump in on the capital piece. I do not know all of the questions that Chair Ariola has already asked, but I just want to say that in your testimony you referenced some capital dollars in this fiscal year as well as the out years, and by my count the funding would go towards the renovations of about eight buildings or so. I was just curious to know what percentage that represents of your entire physical infrastructure that needs repair — stations, firehouses or any other properties.

(06:35:33)

So I think the things that were mentioned in the testimony were probably the...

(06:35:37)

...roofs that were just funded.

(06:35:38)

Yes, six roofs I think, and there were two projects that were accelerated, but those are not the only projects funded. There are many more projects actually funded. Those were just the ones... many more that are funded.

(06:35:52)

Yes, many more capital improvements that are funded already. Yes. So of your total capital needs, how many of the projects would you say are funded? Like 50%? 80%? I mean...

(06:36:10)

...our capital needs are significant. Great. I know...

(06:36:12)

...that is what I am getting at. I am trying to help you. But we do...

(06:36:17)

...have, you know, as I said, $994 million across a 10-year plan for capital, and 553 million of that is in the first five years of the plan, so almost half. Yes, roughly...

(06:36:33)

...about half. If that 994 was the number, yes. If 994 million is completed, then all your capital needs are taken care of?

(06:36:46)

No. I mean, there are, as I said before, given the number of our facilities and their current state of repair, our capital needs go beyond our existing funding.

(06:36:58)

Okay, so I am just trying to figure out, of the existing funding that has been allocated to address capital needs, what percentage is that of the total capital needs you have? I would have to say it is about 25 to 30%.

(06:37:20)

25 to 30%. Okay. I am not going to attempt to do quick math in my head, but... a hundred million dollars, roughly speaking, or 994 million you said is about 25 to 30% of your total needs? Or is it the 500 million? I believe it is the 500 million. 500 million is 25 to 30% of your total capital needs. Okay.

(06:37:54)

I do not think we have quantified it that way. I think, you know, we have 400 or so buildings and many of these buildings are a century old. Those capital projects will continue to pop up as we go forward. I do not think there is any place where we could say all our capital needs will be secured and done if you give us this amount of money, because it is a rotating thing. As the buildings age, things pop up. So I think that is why you see... why we are struggling to try to give you an actual percentage of the money that we have. The money that is going to go towards the capital is the most needed capital projects. Good.

(06:38:38)

Okay. Yeah, I was just going to add for context — I mentioned this earlier, but I do not know if it was when you were out. So we have seen our capital funding for facilities increase pretty substantially in the last five years. If you looked five years ago, it was about 37% of our capital budget, and now it is more than half — it is 52% of our capital budget. It has grown by nearly $500 million. Okay.

(06:39:08)

Those...

(06:39:08)

There is still a lot of state of good repair needs that we have to address, but we are seeing the budget move in the right direction towards funding those state of good repair needs. Another component of this is really having the bandwidth in terms of civilian staff to actually execute those projects, and so the 84 civilian positions that we got in this budget are instrumental towards doing that — both staff for facilities and for procurement to execute on those design and construction contracts. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate...

(06:39:41)

...it and I am, you know, not trying to be difficult. I am just trying to get down to the fact that I would argue you could use far more capital dollars to address the needs at all of your buildings, and so I think you could probably agree with that sentiment. Perhaps you can just point to one... it would solve more problems. There you go. Okay. Great. And then I just wanted to — did anyone ask about cold weather events yet? Okay. If I can just ask a couple of questions: what percentage increase in calls occurs during extreme cold weather...

(06:40:22)

...events compared to normal conditions? I do not know if we have the exact number. Do you have the exact number? I do not think we have the exact number of what percentage, but certainly this last winter was way colder than any other winter we can remember and for a longer period of time.

(06:40:39)

We saw a significant increase in call volume and, as part of the City's engagement with the folks that were out in the field, we were right front and center on that. So anytime that we see stretches of bad weather, whether it be cold or hot, the call volume goes up.

(06:41:03)

For us and it goes up both on fire and...

(06:41:07)

Right. Maybe you can follow up with the specific... yeah, we can get back to you with that.

(06:41:12)

Okay. Thank you. And then let me ask — what additional budget allocations have been designated for extreme cold weather operations, like reimbursement? We have not had any specific budget adjustments tied to the weather.

(06:41:30)

And to the extent...

(06:41:31)

...that you know, even incurred additional overtime costs, that is part of the adjustments that were made in the last budget. I mean, I would suggest that just given where we are going globally in terms of climate change and all of that, and like you mentioned, Commissioner, the winters are going to get colder and longer, the summers are going to get hotter and longer. I would strongly advocate for more funding or adjusted funding to accommodate overtime and the needs as they grow during those extreme weather conditions. And then just one last question.

(06:42:11)

Chairs. What is the demographic breakdown of applicants versus hires as far as percentages by race and gender? Let me have the Commissioner talk to you about that. Are you referring to our firefighter applicants? Both, if you have it. I would ask for the fire applicants.

(06:42:35)

Okay, I will take what you...

(06:42:41)

...have. Okay. So our most recent exam — we had about 20,000, over 20,607 passers. 22% of those passers were Black, 28% Hispanic, 40% White and 6 to 7% were women. Are those passers hired?

(06:43:08)

They are not hired. We have not actually hired any of these candidates yet. They are just now going through the first step, which is passing the physical exam, so that will continue through the end of the year and then they will start the background process. Do you have...

(06:43:22)

...any of those statistics for previous fiscal years?

(06:43:31)

What we do know so far... previous firefighter exam... give me a moment, I could... if you give me a second, I will find where I put it. Sure.

(06:44:27)

So for the last exam, in terms of our test takers, we had 28% Black, 27% Hispanic and 40%... I am sorry. Sorry. Let me get my glasses.

(06:44:56)

25% Black. Our previous exam, seven years ago, which was held in 2016 to 2017: 25% Black, 27% Hispanic and 44% White. Those...

(06:45:07)

...are for the applicants. Those are for the test takers.

(06:45:10)

The test takers. And then how many were hired? Was the demographic breakdown similar? The demographic breakdown is similar for those...

(06:45:24)

...that were reachable. 18% Black. Sorry. What do you mean...

(06:45:29)

...by reachable? Reachable, meaning they scored high enough on the exam to be reached.

(06:45:37)

Okay, so does that mean hired? Not specifically, not necessarily hired. Do you have any...

(06:45:42)

...different... do you have the hiring numbers? I do not have them for me. I do not know the numbers of those that were hired from the last...

(06:45:48)

...exam, but we can... can you follow up? Very well. Okay. Thank you so much and also just want to say thank you for keeping New Yorkers safe and we greatly appreciate it. I would love to see more resources and more money and pay parity for the division, so thank you. Thank you, Chairs.

(06:46:16)

I just wanted to note that I was just given another list that the Fire Department gave our office in 2025, that were priority engine companies and stations that needed... they were in terrible disrepair. And again, the engine companies that you gave us — Engine 25, 54, 74 and 300. They are not even on your own priority list. You did not take anyone off your own priority...

(06:46:49)

...list. What is the reason for that? Because those projects that were referred to were already funded, so they would have been higher priorities, but because we were able to allocate funding to them, they were not on the unfunded list. As projects get funded, they will move off that unfunded priority list. So the list that I have here — are they in priority order? It is Engine 60, 91, 62, 36, 51, 57, 25, 85, 92, 84, 292, 95, Engine Company Eric, 18, 32, Station 45, 5400, Squad number 7 and Squad 228. Are they in priority order?

(06:47:42)

When the photo is available here in priority order, but we could follow up.

(06:47:48)

Okay, we are going to move on.

(06:47:52)

I am sorry. I am so sorry. We are going to... CM Restler has one follow-up question.

(06:47:57)

Just one question. I am really sorry, Commissioner. Remind me how many years you worked in EMS. I worked 31 years before I retired. So one of the things that, you know, we hear a lot about, just like CM Brewer, is the extreme impacts of the noise from ambulances. We of course need ambulances to get where they need to go as quickly as possible, but I have long worried about the impact it has on workers. Have you ever thought about the impact the sirens have on the hearing of workers? Is this something that you are concerned about at all?

(06:48:31)

Yeah, that is a common concern for all first responders because we spend our lives underneath the sirens. If you asked my family, they will probably tell you that I have suffered from that problem. But yeah, it is definitely something we look at and it is something that the entire community looks...

(06:48:49)

...at. And that is where these conversations about ramblers versus sirens versus wailing versus intermittent — like, all those conversations come out of that concern. But that would be the same for all first responders. Yeah, I mean, I think it is just worth remembering — we banned smoking in restaurants because of the safety of... thank you, Gale Brewer. It is good to preface most statements with "thank you, Gale Brewer." But we banned smoking in restaurants because of the safety of the workers in the restaurants and the health impacts they suffered from secondhand smoke. I think it is worth thinking about whether we need to devise a safer siren for the workers that are dealing with that noise throughout all day long, every single day.

(06:49:34)

So yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up. I mean, we are happy to continue those conversations. I think, you know, these sirens need to be safer for the people who sit under them all day long, but they are exposed to so many things that the siren is one aspect of that. So they also need to be functional in a way that 100% of people in a city this size can hear us. Good.

(06:49:58)

Recently we have added a Division Chief to our safety battalion and just last year during the summit we actually did do a decibel pilot in which we monitored... we tested the levels of the siren inside the cab and we expanded that to our Gator and ATV units, which some of the Council members have been so gracious to help purchase for us. These are the units that operate on the beach during the summer because they are in an open compartment rather than a closed compartment. We had those decibel levels tested and we tried out different types of hearing protection that also allowed them to be able to hear radio transmissions and pedestrians. It was not very conclusive that the hearing protection changed the decibel level — it was not above the acceptable amount inside — and the hearing protection was more of a hindrance to the members than it was helpful. What they stated was it was more of a hindrance to hearing the radio and hearing pedestrians. So we are looking at that. Thank you...

(06:51:10)

...both for the responsible... and thank you, Chairs, for the latitude. I would like to ask you to take a look at the screen. The chart on the screen shows a list of fire apparatus. The ones highlighted in yellow are restricted from relocation under any circumstances until further notice. Two questions: are the replacement rigs funded, and what happens when one of those rigs goes out of service for repair? Is the first due area left unprotected? Are you able to make out the screen, or maybe make it bigger?

(06:51:48)

You know what, I am going to... yeah, we are going to bring... we are going to bring you a copy.

(06:52:01)

Thank you. Thank you. She could see the highlighted ones.

(06:52:07)

Yellow shows the districts that these rigs are restricted from relocation under any circumstances. So this deals with contract provisions with the Fire Officers Union about the age of first frontline apparatus, and due to delays in the global supply chain and delays during COVID...

Will Manufacturing Group, which is in Wisconsin, is still backlogged on some of these. I had visited the factory and they had to lay off a significant number of their workers during COVID, then had to hire them back, and most of them did not come back. They are now up and running, and they have been for our apparatus, but they are custom made and no other fire department in the country orders apparatus to our specifications because of the heavy duty use we have and the roads that we have, and they are all effectively custom made. We are continuing to receive them. They are being delivered. On this list you have Ladder 11, which we have, which will be going into service soon. So in accordance with the contract, when we went through a grievance with the union on this, the grievance and the arbitration, the arbitrator decided that a relocation was not an emergency. The department's position was opposite that, that relocations are emergencies. So these apparatus are not able to be used to relocate to cover other areas. That does handicap the department at times because there are times we would like to use these to relocate.

(06:54:15)

So it is fair to say that the first area is left unprotected if one of these rigs...

(06:54:22)

...are unable to be used or in that engine company?

No, the other areas — they have to stay in their area. They cannot be sent to relocate somewhere else. So if they are operating out of their firehouse, we can send another company to cover them. We cannot use any of these to be sent to relocate somewhere else.

(06:54:43)

And besides Ladder 11, how many others are funded? Are they all fully...

(06:54:48)

They are all funded and they have all been ordered on schedule.

(06:54:54)

Yeah, full of the highlighted...

(06:54:55)

So just to add to that, this has not been a funding issue. We have put in the orders for the replacement apparatus on what would have been on time, and in fact we have been putting in the orders earlier and earlier. But because of the manufacturing delays, it has been taking longer for us to receive the vehicles. We do track the companies that are in outdated apparatus and in terms of when they are going to be resolved.

So there are about 51 outdated apparatus in the field right now. There are four pumpers we are expecting that we will have received and they will be in service later this calendar year. There are seven squad high pressure pumpers and four 75-foot tower ladders that we expect to be delivered and in service by the end of 2026. There are two 95-foot tower ladders that we expect to be in service by the end of summer. There are eight tractor-drawn aerials that we expect to be in service by early 2027, and the most backlogged are 23 rear mounts that we anticipate are about a year out.

Okay. All right, now again on the screen we are...

(06:56:11)

...going to put up a series of photos, many of which you have seen before and a few new ones. The photos show water damage at Engine 59 Ladder 30 in Manhattan. The picture shows water damage that has corroded the ceilings and walls of the firehouse. There is a pipe that clearly shows the water has been leaking out of it. The water has damaged the steps inside the firehouse from the constant leak, and we see steps with stains and buildup. Were these conditions remedied?

(06:57:04)

All right, that is Engine 59 Ladder 30. Yes, yes, yes, thank you.

(06:57:08)

We have been working with our trade staff to address all these issues and to try to work on correcting them until we could get funding later on. So you work with the firefighters that are in there...

(06:57:20)

Is that... I do not know, without a trade...

(06:57:21)

...staff for the trade. Okay. Yes, I am sorry. Okay. Next, we...

(06:57:32)

...have a roof leak at Engine 262 in Astoria, Queens, that has at least five work orders reported: 1/25/23, 2/9/23, 3/11/25, 1/7/26 and 2/15/26. In the pictures we see a drop ceiling that is missing tiles from what looks like a leak. The tiles are filled with heavy water stains. There is another picture of a ceiling covered with tiles that seem to be missing. There is a picture of blue walls surrounding a window air conditioning unit with what appears to be the outlet of the unit left open.

What is the status of these repairs? Our trade staff has responded and repaired the roof on Building 262 as well as replaced ceiling tiles, and I believe they are currently working on the walls as we speak.

Okay. The next photo is of the first floor of Engine 8 Ladder 15. The first picture shows the crumbled support wall of the firehouse between the two apparatus doors. Was that repaired?

(06:58:55)

Yes, following the last budget hearing, we quickly went out there to assess it and determined that it is not a structural wall. Our vendor was there and we completed that wall restoration, I believe on May...

(06:59:20)

...15. Okay. The picture we are looking at now is the rear wall of the apparatus floor, which we also see crumbling. This is the same location. There are also many areas with ceiling tiles missing around the light fixtures, with water-stained tiles surrounding the missing tiles. So we can assume the tiles were missing due to water damage from the leak. Were these conditions corrected?

(06:59:43)

Correct. The same vendor who fixed the wall in between the apparatus doors also corrected that wall there, and the ceiling tiles have been replaced.

(07:00:13)

That is the previous photo, and he said it was corrected. It should be Engine 209. Okay, this is the roof of Engine 209 Ladder 146 in Brooklyn. The photo shows that the roof has sunk from its proper place. The roof should be in line with the metal rail on the exterior wall. The picture shows the roof about one foot below the metal rail. This was reported on 10/22/25.

The next picture shows water damage happening inside the firehouse above a cooling and heating unit. The last time we were here, we also discussed the various work orders submitted for the Niederman system. For those who do not know, the Niederman is the vacuum attached to the apparatus to capture exhaust and diesel fumes. The orders were submitted on 1/11/26, 1/8/26 and 2/18/26. You said earlier that all Niederman systems have been repaired. Is this one repaired?

That is correct. Okay. I would also like to talk about the roof. Yes, please. So the roof has also been repaired. The interior damage to the ceilings has been repaired and we will work on the walls.

But I would like to explain...

(07:01:46)

...a little bit about what you refer to as the roof sinking and that metal rail. Okay, great. That detail is the proper detail. It does not show that the roof is sinking. That piece of aluminum flashing that you see right there — that is called through-wall flashing, and right below that you see kind of like the roof member curves up. That is an entire roof parapet waterproofing detail that we try to mimic. Actually, we install it at every new roofing project. That roof never sank, although the roof did need repair and it has been repaired. I believe I showed a very similar situation at the roof of Engine 129 on Friday. We were up on the roof, so that is our standard condition that we do build at all facilities that have had roof repairs.

(07:02:39)

Okay. For the record, Phyllis and Cyril, it was my chief of staff and a senior adviser. Okay, now we are going to our next photo. Ladder 78. Ladder 78 has put in for an unstable front parapet wall of the firehouse numerous times. In 2023, Buildings units subcontracted out a company to put a protective netting over the unstable parapet wall. No repairs have been done since the netting has been put on the parapet. Previous work orders were submitted on 6/21/22, 3/11/22, 12/6/21 and 5/25/20. Was this repair completed?

(07:03:31)

So that is Engine Company 155, and yes, we did stabilize the condition with that netting there. Okay. This facility was also submitted as part of the roofing package that we had submitted. We do believe that six of these projects have been funded. We are not sure exactly which six. Is that correct?

(07:03:54)

We can prioritize which six...

(07:03:54)

Okay, so we could help prioritize which of these six have funding. While we could prioritize that, we also have an outside vendor and our engineering team working with us on the best approach. Okay. All right, thank you. Okay.

(07:04:24)

The next picture is from Squad 288 in Maspeth. The apparatus floor is buckling, patched with concrete. The following picture shows how it is being held up by hoists that were installed in 2001, which are now also buckling and unsteady. That apparatus floor holds rigs that weigh several tons. There is some flooding in the basement, which also compromises the hoists. What is the status of the repairs here?

So for Squad...

(07:04:53)

...288, those are what we refer to as floor jacks. They are supporting the apparatus floor because the floor is in need of a replacement and an overall more comprehensive project. Currently we have funding to do windows at Squad 288, which we are moving forward with once the funding is registered. The funding for the larger component aspect of it, which would be the price for that, is in out-years, which we are working with OMB on while we are doing the windows to try to accelerate that funding forward so we could get them as close to simultaneous as possible. Okay.

(07:05:44)

This slide is the rest area for firefighters at Engine 290 Ladder 103 in Brooklyn. We see a red wall with a large gaping hole that exposes the brick of the building structure. There are pipes exposed as well. There is also water damage all along the wall and there is a bed to the side. How do you think that this damage should be repaired?

(07:06:12)

That is how it was repaired? How do you think it should be repaired? Well, I believe that that hole was made for us to access some of the piping behind the wall to address a leak, although Engine Company 290 is definitely one of those buildings that needs a complete roof restoration and building envelope restoration. Again, this is one of those that is on the list where we received six of the funding for, and we will continue to prioritize it and hopefully we can get this one in there.

(07:06:45)

Okay. I just, for the record, have to note that the slide we are looking at is the current condition of the same red wall with the hole in it, but we now see a metal plate that has been placed by facilities over the hole. The water is...

(07:07:00)

...now pooling to the left. We can see the paint bubbling directly above the powered outlet. Okay, out there. Okay.

In this video we see a pipe along the ceiling of Engine 200 Ladder 103 in Brooklyn. The pipe has water pouring from it, and when the camera pans down you can see the water is leaking directly onto the oil burner. Why has this gone unrepaired?

It is hard to say that it has gone unrepaired. Whenever something like that happens, a work order is called in immediately to our resource center, and depending on what the issue is, on an order like that we would have our plumbers respond as well as maybe our boiler technicians to make sure that the boiler is operational. So I would not say it is going unrepaired. If it is an active leak like that, I am not exactly sure what type of pipe that specifically is, but the water does look pretty clean, so I am not going to say it is a sewer pipe. I just do not know from that picture.

(07:10:42)

Okay.

(07:10:42)

Have you received a work order for that particular engine and ladder company and that leak?

(07:10:51)

With 300 work orders a week, it is pretty difficult for me to answer that question specifically.

(07:10:54)

When you were asked to bring a computer today so that you could look up... you do not have it. Why would you not have it? A specific request was made for facilities to bring a computer so that you could look up the work orders.

(07:11:13)

I just do not have it with me. I could definitely let you know about this work order. Commissioner, we let Jason know...

(07:11:25)

...very pointedly that we needed facilities to have a computer with them so they could look it up, so that we could know what has been done and if they had not received a work order. The fact that that request from this committee was completely disregarded is unacceptable and disrespectful.

(07:11:46)

Can I just say — yes, the request was not disregarded. I just did not have the computer readily available to bring today.

(07:11:54)

No, no, no, no. I do have a staffer back at the office who unfortunately is not there at the moment. She might be texting me right now. She unfortunately had to leave the office for a family emergency. So I do not have that specific information for you. We are happy to get you the information that you need.

(07:12:18)

I cannot, unfortunately, change the fact that we do not have the computer.

(07:12:22)

We did have somebody at the office that could have answered it, but...

(07:12:26)

...they are gone.

(07:12:27)

Well, that was the reason for the computer. I understand that the request was made in advance and it was made to Jason. Jason, you know you have been around long enough to understand that when I ask for something for this committee I expect it to be provided, and if it cannot be provided I need to know ahead of time. In situations like this where it is expected, "I do not have it because there was not a computer available to me" is not an answer.

(07:12:58)

On that note, we will be checking on each of the slides that we saw to make sure that the work is being done. But I think anybody with eyes can see that the work being done is just a band-aid. The facilities are falling apart and our workers are working in substandard conditions. They are living there. The better part of their days and nights are spent at the fire stations and they are living in worse conditions than we would allow anyone to live in. As I said earlier, if the fire department were called to inspect those buildings or went down to inspect those buildings, they would be closed. So shame on this administration. Commissioner, I know that you are new and you are doing everything you can to try and remedy this, but shame on anyone who has been here for a long time and has let this go by year after year after year without fixing it.

(07:14:04)

Firefighters... where firefighters have let it go this far, that 100-year-old buildings have not had a nickel put into them unless a Council member provided it, and even then money is held up with...

(07:14:23)

It is totally unacceptable and we will bring that up at the hearing. If you have anything to add, Council member Charlie?

No.

(07:14:32)

I just wanted to thank you all for extending your time because I know that we are past the time, and thank you for sticking around and answering all of our questions. I admire Chair Ariola's passion and I hope you understand that as someone who has been through the capital process before with the City on the nonprofit side, I understand it is a horrible process that is very slow. There are a lot of regulations, tons of regulations. But Chair Ariola, myself and I think all the other Council members, we do want to make sure that we understand your priorities and that we are able to support them where we can and that we are partners with you, because we do care. As you obviously just heard from Chair Ariola, about the firefighters that are serving our City and keeping us safe. So I just wanted to thank you for being here today and for the hearing, and I think if there is nothing else, we are done for the day. Thank you so much.

(07:15:32)

Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate your partnership.