Mental Health Services for Veterans and Military Families

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Good afternoon and welcome to the New York City Council hearing for the Committee on Veterans, joined with the Committee on Mental Health and Substance Use. At this time, please put all devices on silent. Anyone wishing to testify or have any questions, please see one of the sergeants at arms going forward.

Good afternoon. I am CM Frank Morano. I have the privilege of being the Chair of the Committee on Veterans. Thank you for joining us today for our oversight hearing with the Committee on Mental Health and Substance Use, and you will hear from their distinguished chairperson in just a moment. I am very, very much looking forward to today's hearing. I really cannot say enough about the value that I think these hearings have had.

I have been lucky enough to chair this committee. New Yorkers, as many people know, are cynical and, if possible, Staten Islanders that I represent can be the most cynical of a cynical group. Oftentimes when it comes to the public and, quite frankly, even a lot of legislators, there is a lot of head scratching about what these hearings actually accomplish. I am not necessarily talking about this committee, but any of these hearings in general. There is a feeling that — in fact, I said this today multiple times — there is a feeling that there is a lot of grandstanding politicians asking questions, too many stonewalling bureaucrats, and it is not necessarily clear what is being moved forward.

I really do think that the committee hearings that we have held have stood in stark contrast to that. Not only the testimony that we have gotten from the administration, not only the reports that the committee has prepared, but the dynamic testimony from the public, including public who is occasionally critical of the work that this Council has been doing on veterans affairs. Whether it has been the hearing that we had on post-9/11 veterans, whether it has been the hearings that we did on veterans of color, whether it has been the hearing and associated roundtable that we have done on post-9/11 veterans or on female veterans — each of those hearings has produced concrete legislation that I am looking forward to introducing. In some cases I have introduced it, and I think it really does lay the groundwork for actually improving the lives of the large number of veterans that live in New York City. I am hopeful that this hearing that we are going to undertake today, which is a very important issue, does that same thing.

Let us talk a little bit about some of the recent history that we are going to be exploring today. In 2024, these committees examined the City's efforts to support veterans and their families impacted by PTSD. At that time, New York City's Department of Veterans' Services highlighted its family outreach efforts, their mental health programs and resource navigation services, while Local Laws 37, 38, 39 and 40 of 2024 had just taken effect. The Council is eagerly awaiting reporting required under Local Law 37, which is intended to help identify veterans when they interact with City agencies and connect them to available services. One spoiler alert for the public: far too many City agencies are not in compliance with Local Law 37. We are going to find out who the biggest offenders are, and we are going to find out what we are going to do about why they are not in compliance.

The City has issued reports under Local Law 39, but participation and data quality remain concerns. Only 10 agencies reported data in fiscal year 2024 and only seven agencies reported quantitative data in fiscal year 2025. So while veteran identification has improved, the City still lacks consistent data on whether veterans who request mental health services ultimately received care, limiting the Council's ability to assess service access and outcomes. These gaps are especially important as veterans continue to face many of the same challenges as other New Yorkers, including housing instability, affordability pressures, bureaucratic barriers and the stigma associated with seeking mental health support.

Now let me tell you a little bit about the situation involving veterans in New York in terms of the numbers. According to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, New York State ranks ninth in total veteran population. In 2024, there were nearly 18 million veterans in the U.S. and 637,542 residing in New York State, with about 122,700 living in New York City.

When we look at and explore the effects of military service on veteran psychological health, there are so many different aspects to look at, and it is one of the reasons why I think veterans issues really affect the issues that every single City agency deals with. The impacts of military service on psychological health, as you might guess, are quite complex, and as a result, veterans tend to suffer from substance and alcohol use and misuse, sexual trauma, behavioral health issues and mental health disorders, including post-traumatic stress disorder.

Now, what are the key barriers to mental health and substance use care among veterans in New York State? Well, veterans in the State continue to experience significant unmet mental health and substance use treatment needs despite high rates of health insurance coverage and access to VA benefits. Think about that — even when people have insurance and are covered, they are still having difficulty for whatever reason either accessing or taking advantage of the benefits that they are legally entitled to and that the taxpayers are paying for them to receive. This gap in treatment is due to a lot of challenges, including difficulty navigating the behavioral health system and understanding available benefits, negative stigma in some quarters towards treatment, geographic and logistical barriers, and increasing need for equity and cross-cultural competency training to better identify the needs of female veterans, LGBT+ veterans and veterans from racial and ethnic minority backgrounds.

Now, with all that in mind, we have heard a great deal of late about VetConnect NYC. Veterans, advocates and nonprofit providers and City Council members have regularly raised concerns about the VetConnect portal site since its inception in 2018. Users continue to face difficulties accessing and navigating the portal, reaching agency staff and caseworkers, and a lack of follow-up after seeking services, which has contributed to delayed access to services including mental health services. That was spelled out recently in a report by the New York City Comptroller.

In addition to our oversight topic today, we are going to be hearing about Res 0493-2026, which is sponsored by a Council member who would declare April 7 as White Star Family Day in the City of New York. Because she does not have a link to log on, Council Member Ariola did message me and she asked me to read on her behalf about Res 0493-2026.

She says: Res 0493-2026 addresses an important gap in how we recognize families who have lost a service member or veteran to suicide. White Star families carry a loss that is often deeply painful and, unlike Gold Star families, they currently have no formal designation or official recognition specifically acknowledging their sacrifice. This resolution is about making sure these families are not overlooked and that their loss is recognized with the dignity and respect it deserves. Our veterans and service members dedicate themselves to protecting our country, and our commitment to them should not end when their service ends. We must also recognize and support the families who are left behind, particularly those facing the

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unique grief, stigma and challenges associated with suicide. We are taking a meaningful step towards bringing greater awareness to veteran suicide and ensuring that the families affected by it know that their loss has not been forgotten. I urge my colleagues to join me in recognizing these families and supporting Res 0493-2026.

Now I want to acknowledge my colleagues on both committees who are here today. The man who I believe still has perfect committee attendance, or pretty close to it — the distinguished CM from Queens, Phil Wong — is here, as well as CM Aldebol from the Boogie Down Bronx.

Before I conclude, I would like to acknowledge CM Cabán, the Chair of the Committee on Mental Health and Substance Use, for working with me on this oversight hearing. She recognizes, as much as I do, how crucial it is to address the mental health issues veterans face and the barriers to treatment that many still experience. I want to just reiterate how genuinely privileged and fortunate I am to be able to co-chair this hearing with CM Cabán. If you were to try to find the two Council members that probably have the least similar voting records in our Council, it would probably be CM Cabán and me. At this hearing, and I think at the one that we were just at, the seat on the far right facing the witness table was occupied by me and the seat on the far left facing the witness table was occupied by her, and I do not know that that was an accident.

I will tell you one of the reasons I was so eager to co-chair this hearing with CM Cabán: I think by the two of us co-chairing this hearing together, not only do I think we usually ask the best questions in all the hearings, but I think it sends such a powerful message about mental health and substance abuse and veterans issues specifically — that not only is this not a partisan issue, but you could take the people representing the folks in the City that are furthest to the right and furthest to the left and show that their representatives care about this issue just as deeply, even if we end up having somewhat different solutions in terms of how to address it. I think addressing it to begin with is really the first hurdle that we as New Yorkers need to overcome.

In the pro-wrestling world that politics and government often seems like these days, you are cautioned that you do not want to be seen with this person, you do not want to be seen working with this person. Not only do I find CM Cabán to be one of the most intelligent and hardworking members of this body, but I think the mentality that I just described is exactly the problem in politics and government these days. I want to find the people that I disagree with the most, and those are the folks that I want to work with the most on the issues that we both care about. I was warned that CM Cabán was the nicest member of this Council when I was elected, and those warnings have turned out to be true, and I am excited that she is able to co-chair this hearing with me.

I also want to thank the committee staff: our outgoing legislative counsel Hannah Coan, our senior legislative counsel Sarah Sucher, our legislative analyst Raina Lee — making her debut, and very, very excited to have Raina here. Raina, I think that you will find that when we go through legislative analysts quickly here, hopefully it is not because I am difficult to work with, but I am committed to, while we are working together, really leaving an impact on veterans issues in New York City. I am excited to work with you. Legislative policy analysts Manure Boot and Justin Campos, who as always have just been incredible, financial analyst Sandra Gray, and community associate and someone who is absolutely indispensable in all the work this committee does, Sebastian Tamayo, for their hard work in preparing for this hearing.

I also want to thank my staff for their work as we continue to serve our constituents and the City as a whole, particularly my chief of staff Frank Rapetti, but also my director of communications Alexis Winters, who is here today and hails from the great Borough of Queens, the borough with the highest percentage of veterans in our City. Thank you, Alexis.

I am looking forward to today's testimony and to strengthening support for veterans facing challenges accessing mental health and substance abuse services throughout New York City. Just one quick note for the public and our colleagues CM Louis and CM Aldebol: we just left a hearing and I was there for two hours and literally the only people that got to ask questions were the chairs of that hearing. It is no criticism of them, but you had a lot of very intelligent Council members that worked very hard on preparing questions for the panel that was appearing before them and they did not get to ask any questions because they could not stay for longer than two hours.

So after the testimony, I am going to ask a couple of questions, presumably Chair Cabán will ask a couple of questions, and then I am going to wait and allow everybody else who has questions to ask them, and then I will come back. Also, the five-minute buzzer drives me crazy. Council members feel like they are playing beat the clock to ask a follow-up question. If you are asking questions and the folks are nice enough to give a thoughtful, comprehensive answer and you have an appropriate follow-up question, ask it. Ask it. Do not worry about the buzzer going off, just ask it. It is fine. You do not have to ask permission. Just go ahead and ask it with my blessing. We are going to have as close to an organic conversation as we can.

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I would now like to turn it over to our committee counsel to administer the... well, all right. It is not in my script. I do not know what to tell you. Before we swear in our distinguished panelists today, please welcome the chair of my co-committee today, CM Cabán.

Thank you very much, Chair, and I just echo the sentiments — willing to work with anybody who wants to solve the problem, so that is what we are here to do. I am excited to be talking about this topic today. I want to very quickly recognize that we have been joined by CM Ariola on Zoom. We have also been joined by CM Aldebol. Oh, she is already here. Okay, great. I recognize you twice. Oh, okay. And I would like to recognize CM Gennaro too.

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Okay, so my name is CM Tiffany Cabán. I am the Chair of the New York City Council's Committee on Mental Health and Substance Use. I want to welcome our veterans, their families, caregivers, service providers and advocates who have joined us today. Many of you took time away from work, caregiving or your own recovery to be here. Your presence matters and your testimony will shape the committee's work going forward.

New York City is home to more than 170,000 veterans and hundreds of thousands more family members and caregivers whose lives are shaped by military service. These are New Yorkers who served, often at great personal cost, and who came home to a City that owes them real, accessible and effective care. My home borough of Queens, as the Chair mentioned, has the highest concentration of veterans in our City, and veterans experience post-traumatic stress, depression, anxiety and moral injury at rates significantly higher than the general population.

Suicide remains a devastating crisis in the veteran community nationally, and every one of those deaths reflects a failure somewhere in our systems of care. Substance use, often a form of self-medication for untreated trauma, disproportionately affects veterans and can compound housing instability, family breakdown and further mental health decline. This

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crisis does not stop with the veteran alone. Military families carry their own trauma, living with the ripple effects of deployment, reintegration and often an unseen, undertreated condition in someone that they love. Caregivers frequently sacrifice their own economic security and mental health to provide care, often without adequate support or recognition.

If we are serious about veteran mental health, we have to be serious about family and caregiver mental health too.

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I also want to acknowledge veterans experiencing homelessness and veterans involved in our criminal legal system. I was a public defender for a long time and a lot of our clients that, you know, came in persistently and consistently on low level offenses that were born out of housing insecurity, mental health issues and substance use issues. A lot of them were veterans. That is another indication of the failure in our systems of care. In both cases, untreated mental health and substance use needs are often at the root of how someone ended up unhoused or incarcerated. Veterans should never fall through the cracks between City, State and federal systems, but too often that is exactly what happens. A veteran in crisis ends up in our shelter system or in police custody rather than with someone trained in trauma-informed, veteran-competent care.

This points to a larger truth: mental health care cannot be delivered in isolation from the rest of the veteran's life. It is inseparable from whether they have stable housing, income, transportation and providers who actually talk to one another. Housing instability in particular is both the cause and consequence of untreated mental illness. A veteran facing eviction is far less likely to keep a therapy appointment or stay in therapy, no matter how good that treatment is on paper. The same is true of food insecurity, unemployment and lack of transportation. These are not peripheral issues. They often determine whether a veteran can access care at all.

We do not intend this hearing to be a ceremonial exercise in appreciation of our City's veterans. We intend to produce accountability and action. We want to hear from City agencies about what is working and, more importantly, about what is not and why. We want to hear directly from veterans and families about where the system failed them or simply was not there when they needed it the most.

So I want to thank the administration for being here, Chair Morano and my colleagues for their engagement, the advocates, the veteran service organizations and families joining us, including those from my own district in Queens. I want to acknowledge that for some in this room, today's testimony touches on painful or personal experiences. We are grateful for your willingness to share them in service of a system that should serve you better. Thank you to all of the staff involved. There is actually a lot of overlap in our committee staff and I just appreciate the work that you all do. With that, I am going to turn the mic back to Chair Morano. Thank you.

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questions? Okay. Thank you. As a reminder to all our witnesses, if you could please state your name prior to your testimony for the record. Begin when you are ready.

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Good afternoon. I am Commissioner Mata from the Department of Veterans' Services. Thank you, Chair Morano, Chair Cuban and members of the Committees on Veterans and Mental Health for this important hearing. My name is Sanna Mata and I serve as Commissioner of the New York City Department of Veterans' Services. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the mental health and well-being of New York City's veteran community and the work we are doing to strengthen pathways to support. As a veteran and as a soldier, I know that asking for help is not always easy. Military service teaches us resilience, to accomplish the mission and to take care of the person standing beside us. But sometimes the person who is struggling is not the person who will raise their hand first. That is why our approach to veteran mental health must begin before a crisis and must begin with connection, community, early intervention and trusted pathways to care.

This past Sunday, just two days after the 25th anniversary of September 11, more than 1,200 members of the military and veteran-affiliated community here in New York City joined us for the City's inaugural Remembrance Ruck across the Brooklyn Bridge. The ruck was first and foremost an act of remembrance, but it was also intentionally centered on camaraderie and community. Veterans do not always come through a formal intake process or because they have already identified a specific need. Sometimes the first step is showing up, meeting another veteran, talking with others and realizing there is a community around them. An event is not a substitute for care, but it must be part of our broader approach to mental health and suicide prevention.

The data on veteran suicide underscore the urgency of this work. Research examining veteran mortality in New York City between 2012 and 2022 found that veterans died by suicide at approximately twice the rate of the civilian population, with particularly concerning disparities among younger veterans. Prevention cannot belong to one program, one agency or one level of government. Prevention means reducing isolation, strengthening social connection, identifying needs earlier, helping veterans navigate resources and ensuring there is a pathway to professional care when it is needed.

With funding from New York State, we launched our first City-administered Dwyer program cycle in 2025, supporting 31 veteran and community-based organizations offering free in-person programming across the five boroughs. Nearly three quarters of surveyed participants strongly agreed that their program increased their sense of connection to other veterans. Three quarters said it supported their emotional well-being and 90% said they would be very likely to recommend the Dwyer program to another veteran. As we move into the next cycle, 23 organizations have already been prequalified and our new partnership with Citizens Committee for New York City will help move resources to participating organizations while allowing us to remain focused on program oversight, veteran community and outcomes.

We are also strengthening proactive outreach through Mission Vet Check. Mission Vet Check operates in partnership with We Are Cares and uses trained volunteers to make supportive check-in calls to veterans across New York City. In our most recent outreach, more than a thousand calls were made to New York City veterans, creating another opportunity to connect with us and resources related to mental health, housing, food, employment, benefits and other needs. Mission Vet Check is not a crisis line or a replacement for professional mental health care. It is another opportunity to connect, listen, identify a need and help a veteran understand where support is available.

Coordination across the mental health community is equally important. Through the Veterans' Mental Health Coalition, we convene mental health practitioners, researchers and advocates, organizational leaders and veteran-serving partners to discuss the issues affecting veterans and military families. These conversations allow us to examine emerging research, identify barriers to accessing care, discuss programs and treatment models and strengthen relationships across the veteran mental health ecosystem. No single organization has every answer. Our role is to help build a network where veterans do not have to navigate these systems alone.

That is also why our navigation systems matter. The Comptroller's review of Vet Connect identified areas where the system could be improved and we take those findings seriously. We generally agree with the audit's recommendations and are taking steps to strengthen performance standards, vendor accountability, reporting and opportunities for recurring feedback from veterans and stakeholders. At the same time, Vet Connect is one way to reach us but is not the only pathway. Veterans reach us online, by phone, by email, at events, through our borough-based veteran resource centers, through Mission Vet Check and through direct engagement with community partners. Technology should make accessing support easier, not become a barrier to it.

Our work also requires coordination across City government. Mental health does not exist in isolation from housing, employment, food security, benefits, physical health or family stability. We continue to work with partners across the administration, including the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, to strengthen connections between veterans and available services.

Finally, as we discuss veteran suicide, we must also recognize the families who carry that loss. The administration supports Res 0493-2026, which would declare April 7 as White Star Family Day in the City of New York. Recognizing White Star Families gives us an opportunity to honor families who have lost a service member or a veteran to suicide, while continuing the important work of reducing stigma around suicide, grief, mental health and seeking help within the military and veteran community. Thank you. I am happy to answer any questions.

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...mental health practitioners, researchers and advocates, organizational leaders and veteran-serving partners to discuss the issues affecting veterans and military families. These conversations allow us to examine emerging research, identify barriers to accessing care, discuss programs and treatment models and strengthen relationships across the veteran mental health ecosystem. No single organization has every answer. Our role is to help build a network where veterans do not have to navigate these systems alone.

That is also why our navigation systems matter. The Comptroller's review of Vet Connect identified areas where the system could be improved and we take those findings seriously. We generally agree with the audit's recommendations and are taking steps to strengthen performance standards, vendor accountability, reporting and opportunities for recurring feedback from veterans and stakeholders. At the same time, Vet Connect is one way to reach us but is not the only pathway. Veterans reach us online, by phone, by email, at events, through our borough-based veteran resource centers, through Mission Vet Check and through direct engagement with community partners. Technology should make accessing support easier, not become a barrier to it.

Our work also requires coordination across City government. Mental health does not exist in isolation from housing, employment, food security, benefits, physical health or family stability. We continue to work with partners across the administration, including the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, to strengthen connections between veterans and available services.

Finally, as we discuss veteran suicide, we must also recognize the families who carry that loss. The administration supports Res 0493-2026, which would declare April 7 as White Star Family Day in the City of New York. Recognizing White Star Families gives us an opportunity to honor families who have lost a service member or a veteran to suicide, while continuing the important work of reducing stigma around suicide, grief, mental health and seeking help within the military and veteran community. Thank you. I am happy to answer any questions.

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Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, as always, for your continuous outreach and communication, not only to me but to all the members of the Committee on Veterans on veterans issues. Congratulations on the Remembrance Ruck. The only aspect that you did not mention is that you had over a thousand people participating and rucking across the Brooklyn Bridge in the rain the entire time. I must say I was pretty impressed by your rucking ability and I was glad to be there as well.

You testified that the City funded 31 organizations through the first Dwyer program cycle, but only 23 organizations have been prequalified for the next cycle. Does that mean we are going to have fewer organizations providing services to veterans? Are any boroughs, including our home borough of Staten Island, at risk of losing programs? When will the next round of funding actually reach those organizations?

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Thank you for the question. I will pass this question shortly to my Chief of Staff, Nicole. I would like to elaborate a bit on the history of this program. It first came out in 2025. However, it was not fully implemented per se. Organizations were not fully funded because the program was not fully rolled out. However, under my tenure, in FY27 this program is going to be fully rolled out, fully implemented and the organizations will be receiving the full amount. If they were able to do great work without the full implementation or the funding before, they are going to be getting the most support this time around as it is going to be fully implemented and fully funded. I will pass this question over to Nicole.

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Thank you for the question and thank you, Committee. For the Dwyer programming, in terms of those who have received the $20,000 funding in the previous Dwyer cycle, we are working very closely with our partners at MOCJ as well as our friends over at Passport to ensure that all recipients of Dwyer are able to take the appropriate steps to be prequalified and to receive this additional funding, as the Commissioner stated, when it is fully implemented.

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So can you commit to providing the committee with a borough-by-borough comparison, including funded amounts and any gaps in service?

Yes. In terms of funding for the first cycle of Dwyer, each organization, no matter what borough it was in, received $20,000 in funding. That was the pilot Dwyer programming and we do have a breakdown borough by borough. We would be happy to follow up with that, as it is included in our Dwyer report.

Let me follow up on that. Commissioner, you testified that Mission Vet Check made more than a thousand calls during its most recent outreach effort and that is certainly encouraging. How many veterans actually answered those calls? How many identified a need for mental health services and how many were successfully connected to care? I guess what I am trying to get at is: are we measuring the number of calls made or are we measuring the number of veterans actually being helped?

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Absolutely. Thank you for that question. I will pass that question on to my Chief of Staff, Nicole. But I do want to emphasize that under my tenure we are revamping Mission Vet Check to ensure that we can reach out to more veterans and fully provide that further service. Thank

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you for the question. Since 2025, 27,544 Mission Vet Check calls have occurred and within those calls there were over 1,739 that lasted more than 60 seconds.

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By the way, Nicole, I think this is the first time you have testified before this committee being introduced as Chief of Staff. So I am assuming that means congratulations are in order and the people of the City of New York are certainly well served with that.

Let me move on to Vet Connect. I am sure colleagues have a lot of questions about Vet Connect, but just based on your testimony, I definitely appreciate your acknowledgement of the Comptroller's findings and your statement that technology should make accessing support easier, not become a barrier. You said steps to strengthen performance standards, vendor accountability and reporting. Which of the Comptroller's six recommendations have been fully implemented as of today? Which remain outstanding and when will all six be completed?

Thank you for the question. As I cannot speak to the historical procurement decisions or the context of that aspect, what I can say is that during my tenure here I have been regularly monitoring the Vet Connect user experience, tracking and following up on service tickets and incorporating public feedback. Those are three of the recommendations that the Comptroller recommended. With that, as we are doing that, I would also like to emphasize that under my tenure we have developed the data department because data is very important for our agency.

I have a number of follow-up questions based on your testimony and a number of other questions that the committee staff and I have worked on, but I will give Chair Cuban and my colleagues an opportunity to ask some questions as

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well. Thank you, Chair. I will also be brief so we can pass it over to colleagues. Okay, so one thing that we have both addressed or brought up during our opening statements is that there still exist barriers just to seeking and receiving care. I think I am going to start with a line of questioning there. You know, veterans in the State continue to experience significant unmet mental health and substance use treatment needs and that is despite the high rates of health insurance

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coverage and access to VA benefits. So the coverage is there, the options are there, but there is a gap in treatment. That is due to challenges, right? It is difficulty navigating the behavioral health system, understanding available benefits, negative stigma towards treatment, geographic and logistical barriers, increased need for equity and cross-cultural competency training to better address the needs of women, of queer folks, veterans of different racial and ethnic backgrounds. So what are some of the major barriers that rise to the top when you are trying to assess health care coverage for mental and behavioral health services?

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I am going to be passing this question on to my Chief of Staff, but before that, at DVS we have different ways that veterans can connect with us, whether it is through our social media platform, whether it is through our website, whether it is through our walk-in centers or even Vet Connect.

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We understand that veterans like to be communicated with and reached out to. Everyone has a specific way in which they would like to be reached out to. What we are noticing, and we are aware of, is that if we are not culturally competent, if a veteran does not feel militarily or culturally comfortable, then the inclination to say "I am going through this, I am suffering through this" may not be there. They may not want to disclose that. But because our team is militarily and culturally competent, eventually, because we create that safe space for the veteran, they end up discussing certain aspects of what they are going through, whether it is mentally or physically. I will pass on this

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question. Okay. Just a follow-up to that before you continue: in terms of military cultural competency, how many of those volunteers are peers? What is the ratio between a volunteer that has been trained in competency versus a peer volunteer?

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When you say volunteer, do you mean in our agency, the staff, or the folks that are picking up the phones and assisting veterans when they call in? I am going to pass this question on to my Chief of Staff. Sorry, I added a question to the initial question.

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Thank you for the question. So one third of our staff are veterans. More than two thirds are military affiliated, whether that is on behalf of a family member, a White Star family member, and all of our staff are militarily culturally competent and trained in that way, as well as up to date in their units on that training. So what I mean by that is our claims team often goes to training that reinforces that, our housing team as well, and then also our social services department. And then in following up to the additional question about barriers to entry for the veteran population, we also serve veterans and their families as well. So oftentimes a big barrier is eligibility criteria for family members, because they cannot access services. I will pass over to Donate.

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I am sorry. I am Donate Smalls, Associate Commissioner for Housing and Supportive Services. We also have a model called Aftercare, where now we are applying it to housing. We used the Aftercare model and we are now branching it over to mental health, shadowing that Aftercare model for mental health so that we can follow up with veterans that are, you know, going through a mental health crisis, so that we can follow up with them 24 hours, two days, 40 days a week after, to make sure that they are still in service and they got the services that they need. And just to add on to what the Associate Commissioner mentioned, the model that we are now implementing is marrying, per se, the housing Aftercare component. Not just are we doing it within the mental health component, but across all services within the agency.

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So you mentioned some of the major barriers being the family members and their eligibility. We have also seen, and it is outlined in the committee report, the interruption in therapy. So can you speak to some of the causes of veterans not being able to continue therapy programs, or dropping out of therapy programs?

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Thank you for that question. I think what we see, also specific to mental health but in the community in general, is just that continued engagement at different periods of the year where they may be more busy with life, with family, and we see that as an issue of not engaging in specific resources. I think from our perspective, and as Don mentioned as well, that is why we are increasing that follow up so that if someone does fall off, or it has been a more quiet period of the year, we can be sure to engage them again.

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And what does that look like? That process of engagement — like, is there a sort of formula for, hey, this person missed one or two days, or there is a certain period of time they are gone, and then what does that engagement or follow up look like? What amount of time?

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Yeah, I am going to pass over to Donate to outline that.

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Yes. So the model that we will follow is: 24 hours after we connect veterans to services, we want to make sure that we follow up with them to see if they were engaged or if they need further care. Once that 24 hours comes and we have that communication, the veteran lets us know, yes, we sought services, we are okay with the service provided, and we are going forward. Then we follow up with them two weeks later to make sure that they are still engaged in services. From there we will go three months, six months, as we build a communication and relationship with our veterans, so that if they have fallen off or if they need more help, they know that they can call us.

We give a safe space, and I can speak personally because I engage with the veteran community. I am a combat veteran, retired U.S. Army, so I use my peer-to-peer skills to engage with the veteran community and I give them a safe space to talk and feel comfortable, so that if they are going through crises or anything, they could come back to not only me but my staff. I train my staff in the same way, where they can have a space with their clients where, if anything is happening within the intervals of the Aftercare program, they could come back to us and we can get them back on track with the services that they need.

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When you are doing those check-ins, what is the connection rate like? And I also just want to acknowledge that obviously you are checking in on somebody who presumably was connected to an outside provider and they have their own protocols for, you know, when somebody does not show up. And then, you know, again I have a former colleague here who is going to testify, but putting my public defender hat on — some of the most simple things, it is like, oh, why can your client not come back to court? Because they do not have a MetroCard, because they did not feel like they could show up in clean clothes that day, or just other things that are destabilizing their life that they cannot keep up with.

(00:42:42)

Yes. So the connection rate is, I would say, about 50-50. Once we connect them, actually.

(00:42:51)

Good. For someone who knocks on doors or makes phone calls, that is a pretty high connection rate.

(00:42:56)

And incidentally, the further out it is, the connection rate gets a little bit harder, because of course simple things like people who change phone numbers and do not update us with their information are the reason why we cannot connect at the later intervals. But within the first year we have a strong connection with them.

(00:43:22)

And what are your retention efforts?

(00:43:27)

Besides the check-in, is there anything else that you do to sort of encourage and promote retention in programs and services? What are the things that you are doing to reduce the stigma? And to kind of round out this line of questions: are there identifiable services that we should be providing? What are the gaps that you are seeing in terms of retention and programming?

(00:43:57)

I think we have learned a lot from the Dwyer programming. For the Dwyer programming that had run, we did a participant survey after each of the programs and a lot of the overwhelming feedback was that 90% would recommend it to another veteran, and 79% felt that they were encouraged to seek other mental health support. Dwyer is suicide prevention funding, but done in a way to facilitate peer-to-peer support and reduce social isolation. They are reporting that since they were with that community, with each other, they felt more empowered to get services. Something that we have seen in the veteran community is that a lot is spread by word of mouth, and that remains the greatest way to share information within the community.

So for us as an agency, what we have been focusing on is sharing information in a multitude of ways. That includes creating our veterans resource guide with a Spanish version as well. That includes growing our social media from 3,000 followers to over 6,000, to ensure we are sharing information, as well as our weekly newsletter, where the subscriber rate has increased. So for us it is making sure that the information we are sharing is not in just one mechanism or

(00:45:07)

one way. So you mentioned the Instagram account and the weekly newsletter. Can you talk about any other types of outreach or public awareness campaigns, and also what languages are available?

(00:45:19)

Just a breadth of what is being done in terms of proactive outreach.

(00:45:24)

Well, thank you for the question. I am very happy to know that the Dwyer program is going to be fully implemented this year and the nonprofits will actually get the funding that they need and deserve in order to continue that work, because

(00:45:43)

where there are barriers, oftentimes it is about how we can better reach certain individuals and also communicate outward. If you are familiar with the Dwyer program, just to elaborate a little bit: the Dwyer program goes from dancing, it goes from yoga, it goes from exercise. There are different ways that veterans are being reached in different boroughs, because even for example, like myself, I am from Staten Island and I communicate better in Staten Island — we know our lingo. If you think about going to Snug Harbor, I know where Snug Harbor is. That is an example. The beauty of the Dwyer program is that it is going to be in all five boroughs and the groups are going to be fully supported by getting the funding that they need.

In addition to that, I and the agency believe a lot in ensuring that not only do we have it in a specific language, but that we have it in different languages, and that we also reach out accordingly. I know as a female veteran myself, I also know that I want to be reached out to differently when it comes to female veteran issues. I also know that when it comes to LGBT issues, I would rather hear from the LGBT community themselves to let us know how they would like to be communicated with. So marketing is important. However, we will not move forward with marketing without having those roundtables with those most directly impacted, to let us know how they want us to market.

(00:47:14)

Thank you. And to wrap this line of questioning up and then I will hand it over to colleagues: on barriers, right? Obviously it includes housing instability, it includes affordability, it includes the difficulty of navigating. Is there anything that you think, again, just rises to the top that really needs to be focused on? And then, to your point, the intersection of a lot of different issues and communities — how are you coordinating with other agencies, coordinating with housing, with benefits, with the workforce, with social service agencies?

(00:47:54)

I am going to pass this question to Nicole, but I will elaborate on the agency component. During my tenure here I have been working very closely on building bridges with various other City agencies. I would like to emphasize that, as we do have allies, unless you are a veteran yourself, unless you are a service member yourself or are part of a military family — per se, a military spouse, or even a Gold Star family member or spouse — those individuals or City agencies do need to be militarily culturally trained, or need to be provided guidance on how to best approach certain military issues. So I have been working very diligently with City agencies on ensuring that we explain to them why veterans are important, why military families are important, why Gold Star families are important.

So that is one component. The second component is that, like Local Law 37, when it was introduced back in 2024, it has not been fully implemented — only a few agencies have abided by that. But the other thing too, and that is why I mentioned military cultural competence, is that as a City agency we also need to do that job to reach out to and train City agencies and to guide them. So I would like to say that what went from three City agencies, we have now been in communication and in close partnership with 18 to 20, and the goal is that when we report on that you will see the huge jump. And what does it look like specifically for...

(00:49:39)

We have a very good relationship with DFTA.

(00:49:44)

Thank you, and thank you for the question. I think before the details, just to add to what the Commissioner mentioned in terms of our agency collaboration as well as on the nonprofit and community-based organization side: a really good case study of this is the work that we do alongside the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities. I think oftentimes a barrier is someone's accessibility to the things that are going on in the City — events or things of that nature. We have formed a really strong partnership with the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities as well as with the Wounded Warrior Project, specifically on our 5K run, to ensure that the route was completely accessible and to ensure that all the marketing materials were also accessible for those who have vision impairments. This is a great way that shows that we are bringing together all the partners, understanding that it does not belong to just one group.

Our collaboration with DFTA has been very strong in terms of making sure the hubs that are in different boroughs are being utilized specifically by family members, as well as on the front of marketing materials when they are speaking about mental health, ensuring that veteran mental health is brought to the forefront.

(00:50:48)

Thank you. Back to the Chair.

(00:50:51)

All right. Before I go to my colleagues, I meant to acknowledge this earlier: I want to say happy 79th birthday to the United States Air Force. We thank the generations of airmen who served our country with courage and distinction. Today also happens to be National POW/MIA Recognition Day, when we honor those who endured captivity and remember the American service members who remain missing. We also recognize their families, many of whom have spent decades waiting for answers. I will remind folks that if you want to know about any important veterans commemorations or anniversaries within the City or State of New York, you should absolutely follow the Department of Veterans' Services on social media. With that, I will ask my colleague CM Wong to ask away. Thank you.

(00:51:51)

My first question to the Commissioner is: whatever you lose contact with a veteran, nobody picks up, and that does not necessarily mean anything — they could be visiting family from another state, you know. So what is your policy when you lose contact with a veteran?

(00:52:11)

I am going to ask that question to my Chief of Staff. But as I mentioned, we have different ways for individuals to reach out to us — again, whether social media, the website, the intake process, or walk-ins. And now, during my tenure, we are creating that Aftercare component that Danny had mentioned, and I will pass on this.

(00:52:36)

To this question today. Thank you for the question, Council Member. What we do here is ensure that we have more than one line of communication with the veteran. So if we have their phone number, we have their email address, text message, as well as any way that we can get in touch with them. Consistent follow up has also proved to be super helpful. I think in that regard there have been times where our team has connected with the community-based organization that they have been connected to, or worked closely with our federal partners at the VA level.

(00:53:04)

The reason I am asking is that last year a constituent veteran of mine unfortunately committed suicide, and I really feel that we can do better and we have to keep track of the veterans that live alone and have problems with personal issues. My next question is: I understand that in veteran hospitals there are wait times for certain health services. My question is, which mental health services have the longest wait times in New York City veteran hospitals, and what is the reason for these long waits?

(00:53:44)

Thank you for that question. I am not sure of the time frame for the wait, but I do know that if we are not able to connect the veteran directly to the

(00:53:56)

VA hospital, there are veteran centers in each borough where we can connect the veterans to.

(00:54:05)

Those are entities they partner with, but they are outside, so you do not have to have VA care to be helped at a vet center in order to get help, and they have clinical staff there that can help the veteran in

(00:54:21)

crisis. But we also refer to non-VA providers — Northwell Health, Health and Hospitals — we refer veterans to those as well.

(00:54:35)

Yeah, it is my understanding that sometimes they can have a wait of several weeks or even one or two months in order to get the service they need, and that is very frustrating when I hear about it. I hope that there would be a system in place where they could go outside and get the services rather than wait two or three months, which to me is

(00:54:58)

unacceptable. If I can also just jump in, I think an important piece for us as the Department of Veterans' Services is that we do not provide that clinical support. We do not provide internal mental health counseling or therapy, so we work a lot with our community partners to ensure there is that consistency. And then in cases where there is an immediate need, we also leverage the 988 crisis line

(00:55:21)

for that immediate support. Yeah. But I have heard horror stories of, your next appointment is in three months, and when they need urgent care they needed it within the week, not three months. With that, I have a follow-up question. Are there any programs that the City Council or the administration funds that work on mental health services for veterans or their

(00:55:49)

families? Thank you for that question. What we would say is that with the City Council discretionary funding, through the Vallone Initiative, it is one where veterans are able to file for their benefits in relation to any mental health struggles that they will be experiencing. Since it is run through veteran service organizations, it also brings that camaraderie with those organizations. So although it may be indirectly, it does facilitate that support for the veteran community that is much needed.

(00:56:16)

Do you have data on how many people were helped by these programs?

(00:56:20)

For the Vallone Initiative?

(00:56:23)

Yeah, so we have that in our Local Law 15 reporting, so I would be happy to follow up with it.

(00:56:27)

Okay. Please do. Please do. Thank you.

(00:56:30)

Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember. By the way, when you get that information on the BOLO KN initiative and who has been helped by it, I would be interested in knowing, since this is something that a lot of my colleagues and I spent a lot of time advertising as a service available to the veterans in our district. I would be curious if there is a breakdown by Council district as well, to see which Council Members are doing an effective job in terms of outreach and which Council Members maybe need a little help in making the service available to their constituents. With that, Council Member Aldebol, thank you.

(00:57:10)

Thank you for testifying today. Thank you, Chairs, for having this hearing. You mentioned in your testimony today that there are particularly concerning disparities among younger veterans. Do you have, on a couple of things, what the breakdown is of the age ranges, the demographics, and possible reasons why those disparities exist? And are you working on both outreach and services for that particular age group of veterans?

(00:58:06)

Thank you for that question. So what we have seen on the national level, and we can definitely share this with you all — reading some of the top lines as we understand it — is that the veteran suicide rate is twice the rate among non-veteran U.S. adults. The age group of 18 to 34, which is typically our post-9/11 veterans, experiences the highest suicide rate of 47.9 per hundred thousand people. These are the numbers that we are also actively tracking in collaboration with the legislation that was passed, as well as with our federal partners at the VA. And I am going to pass it over.

(00:58:42)

Commissioner, and to your point about younger veterans, that is something that as an agency, as I mentioned before, we continue working to ensure that if there is messaging going to be targeted to younger veterans, what is the best approach. I and the Commissioner have conversations on what is the best approach when dealing with it. For an example, the type of program — when I met with the Commissioner, I did mention that oftentimes when younger veterans are transitioning out of the military, they are either 23 or about 23 years old. Young veterans who served four years — but what happens when that young veteran transitions back to the civilian world? What oftentimes happens is that military skills, your job per se that you have in the military, when you transition back into the civilian world, oftentimes civilians do not understand what your role was or the transferable skills that you have.

So we are trying to have those further discussions on what is the best way, when those younger veterans transition back into civilian life, that their transferable skills from their military job can be understood by civilians. Because oftentimes their skills are not seen as transferable when civilian employers look at their background. They say, "Oh, well, they do not have a college degree, they have not been in the civilian world, they do not have any training," not knowing that they do have the skills to lead, that they have the skills to manage. So I just want to elaborate on that, because that is going to be another discussion that we are going to be having in the...

(01:00:32)

...future that we are going to be having: how do we best support those young veterans that are also returning back to ensure that they obtain employment? Because oftentimes employment is one of the reasons why they turn to substance abuse or even worse, commit suicide. And what is your connection with connecting veterans to civil service employment? I know that if they take civil service exams they get...

(01:01:03)

...extra points. But how do we get veterans more effectively into a civil service pipeline so that they can actually access jobs and use those skills that, in many ways, can be transferable to the many hundreds of job titles in the City of New York?

(01:01:27)

Thank you for that question. So that is something that we are very cognizant of at our agency, specifically with the utilization of the 55-a pathway program. That is something that we educate our veterans about — we are advising them to indicate on their resume and cover letter that they are 55-a. We have also worked with the State to ensure that a veteran who has a disability rating does not need to provide additional documentation to open up a case with Access VR, where they are able to just be qualified for 55-a.

In addition to that, in 2024 we had a proposal accepted that now, for anyone who is serving active duty and takes their civil service exam — we were seeing this a lot with firefighters and cops who were taking the test and then, since they were deployed during the time they needed to prove residency, they were not also receiving the additional points for residency. The proposal that was accepted was that if they were from New York and could prove that residency within two years because they were deployed, they will continue to receive the residency points. Thank you.

(01:02:26)

Councilmember, before I get to Council Member Wilson, Commissioner, I have a question from my colleague Council Member Ariola, who is watching on Zoom but cannot ask because we do not have a quorum here. Council Member Ariola received a letter from the federal government indicating that the Department of Homeless Services is no longer pursuing funding through the VA Per Diem program, commonly known as GPD. For context, this program provides funding for transitional housing and supportive services for veterans experiencing homelessness. So on her behalf, I have three questions. First, how much federal funding is the City forgoing? Second, why has the City decided not to pursue this grant? And third, how does the administration intend to replace that funding and ensure that the veterans served by the program at Borden Avenue do not lose housing or supportive services? And she adds: if you do not have those answers today, can you commit to coordinating with and providing a written response to the Committee and Council Member Ariola?

(01:03:34)

Thank you for that question. We, as the Department of Veterans' Services, are separate from the federal funding for these shelters. But what we can say is that we are remaining in close communication with all of our partners to ensure that our homeless veterans are taken care of, and we will follow up.

(01:03:51)

Council Member Wilson, thank you. Related to that topic, there is a pretty clear link between mental health and housing, and I am just curious: when a veteran comes to your department seeking assistance with housing, what happens next? Is there a case manager, or are they referred elsewhere?

(01:04:12)

Thank you for that question. So when a veteran...

(01:04:17)

...comes in for housing support...

(01:04:21)

...they do the initial intake — they speak with a veteran housing coordinator to see what their housing needs are. We come up with a housing plan for the veteran. We assess their needs: are they able to pay, are they linked to the VA, do they have any housing subsidies that we can assist with in finding housing? If they do not have a housing subsidy, we walk them through the process hand in hand from the beginning to the end, up until it is time for them to move into permanent...

(01:04:55)

...housing. How many veterans are you working with for housing assistance right now? I will have to get...

(01:05:04)

...back to you with that number. What I can tell you is how many...

(01:05:13)

...veterans we have housed. As of fiscal year 2026, we housed over 209 veterans, which was the agency's highest number since...

(01:05:24)

...its conception. And what is the typical timeframe from when someone comes to your intake to when they get placed in housing?

(01:05:34)

The amount of time can vary depending on documentation. If the veteran has documentation, sometimes a veteran might come in and they do not have their DD-214, so that might take a little bit longer. So it could take anywhere between three to six months to house a veteran.

(01:05:53)

And outside of veterans in the shelter system or veterans that come to you for help, are there other ways that you are looking to identify homeless veterans who are experiencing homelessness? Do you have teams that are canvassing the City, or how do you identify those folks?

(01:06:10)

Yes, we do work closely with our outreach teams, and we also do outreach. A lot of times veterans are coming in — we have a veteran coordinator there on Mondays and Tuesdays so that if a veteran is experiencing housing difficulties outside of being in a shelter, we have someone there to assist with...

(01:06:41)

...that. And then just switching gears a little bit — in light of a lot of recent federal policy that affects the LGBTQ+ community, what steps is the department taking to address mental health impacts, uncertainty, stigma and discrimination for LGBTQ+ veterans?

(01:07:04)

I am going to be passing this question to Nicole shortly. However, I do want to emphasize that at the agency we have an LGBTQ+ liaison. On top of that as well, we have had a roundtable around mental health and we identified certain things that as an agency we can do better to outreach. We are working closely with specific nonprofits and leaders to be able to communicate, whether it is through our social media, highlighting what the LGBTQ+ community veterans have been going through. As a matter of fact, we have been putting on our socials the history of LGBTQ+ veterans, because oftentimes history is erased and what we want to do is highlight that since the beginning, veterans who are LGBTQ+ have been going through what they are going through now. So that is one platform. I will pass...

(01:08:04)

...over the mic to Nicole. Thank you for that question. Just to summarize also what the Commissioner is saying, we also want to make sure that our bonds with our community-based organizations are strong, because we understand that our community is where we are seeing people reach out for services and connection. So for us, if there are issues and there are federal cuts and things of that nature, we want to ensure that our partnerships on the community-based level are strong, including the strong partnership with the Pride Center of Staten Island and with SAGE Vets, to ensure that we are reaching this community where they are and not making them come to...

(01:08:38)

...us. What are some of the barriers that are stopping LGBTQ+ veterans from accessing care, and how are you working to eliminate those?

(01:08:53)

We ended up having a hearing around LGBTQ+ and one of the major components is that LGBTQ+ veterans are not self-identifying. That is why we are working very diligently within our agency to increase that number, because if people are not self-identifying, it also makes it — I do not want to say it is harder to advocate, but it also shows that as an agency we are not doing what we need to do so veterans can feel comfortable to come to...

(01:09:28)

...our agency and self-identify. So within having an LGBTQ+ liaison and working along with other LGBTQ+ organizations, we do hope that the number of self-identified LGBTQ+ veterans increases over the years, and we are going to be monitoring that. I will pass this over to Nicole.

(01:09:55)

Thank you for that question. On barriers specifically, what we are seeing is what is coming down from the federal level. Whether it is the trans ban, or the discharge statuses — still the ramifications of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" — that is something that we are seeing currently as stigma or as reasons for not reaching out. At our agency, we help a veteran no matter what their discharge status is, what their orientation is. We help any veteran and family member. So for us, we have been seeing that, and that is what we have been working on: how do we ensure that we are assisting veterans with their discharge status as well, if that is an issue?

(01:10:27)

Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Wilson.

(01:10:31)

To close the loop on the VetConnect recommendations from the Comptroller's report that we were alluding to earlier, could you provide the Committee with a written implementation schedule identifying each recommendation, the person responsible and the expected completion date?

(01:10:51)

Absolutely. As an agency, I cannot speak on what predated me as Commissioner, but I can speak on the recommendations that the Comptroller has indicated and what we are doing to implement those, as well as the changes that we have been making within the agency. So we can follow up on that and keep you updated.

(01:11:13)

Yeah, as somebody that is constantly answering for my predecessor's doings, I totally empathize. You emphasized that VetConnect is only one pathway — that veterans can also reach you by phone, email, through resource centers and community events — and certainly that is important. If a veteran reaches out through any of those channels, is that request entered into a single case management system? You can take this.

(01:11:43)

Thank you for that question. The goal is for all clients and cases to be included in our system, which is VetConnect powered by Combined Arms. As the Commissioner stated, it was appreciated during her tenure in terms of the utilization of the system. But as we move forward, we are ensuring all staff are implementing these cases into the system.

(01:12:02)

Is someone responsible for following up and can tell us whether that veteran actually received the help that they requested?

(01:12:13)

Thank you for that follow-up question. On the platform, with oversight from our data department, we are actively tracking which cases are open and closed. When someone does go onto VetConnect and they request a service, it does get assigned to a staff member who works in that unit. So it is not a case manager per se by definition, but they are responsible for the coordination of where that veteran will get referred to or what support is provided.

Just to elaborate, this is what we have mentioned: with the new data department that has now been implemented within the agency, along with the aftercare department, the goal is to centralize this data and to be able to have that continuity of follow-up, to ensure we know where veterans are going and to ensure that they did get the services that they need.

(01:13:05)

And my colleagues have touched on an issue that we have all raised, which is veterans who take their own life. Commissioner, you testified that research covering 2012 through 2022 found that New York City veterans died by suicide at approximately twice the rate of the civilian population, with particularly concerning disparities among younger veterans. What specific changes has the City made in response to those findings? Have you established measurable suicide prevention goals, and how will we know whether the City's efforts are actually making a difference?

(01:13:50)

Thank you for that question. As we have said before, not being a clinical provider, what we are ensuring is that our follow-up with veterans who have been answering screeners that indicate they are at risk are being connected to additional services, as well as the emphasis on building that community and camaraderie to ensure that before we get to crisis, there is support for those veterans as well.

(01:14:17)

Thank you. I want to go back to my first line of questioning. Can you guys hear me? Is the mic picking up? Apologies, I have to stand for a little bit. To follow up on some of the questions that were around the agency and community-based organization collaboration piece — what are some of the CBOs that DVS works with to specifically provide mental health services to vets and military families? And what does the feedback loop look like if you are working with these organizations? Are they giving you feedback on their work? Do you have metrics to measure the quality of the services that are being provided, and how do you collect that information?

(01:15:04)

Thank you for the question. As I mentioned, we are continuing to have many roundtables. I have heard from many veteran groups that perhaps this is one of the first times that the agency itself has really engaged many of the groups. Perhaps it was within this year that we had the first female veteran roundtable — so that is an example. We are meeting with our providers, hearing from them directly to let us know what has been working and what has not been working. As an agency, as we continue having these roundtables, we are developing those metrics, because going back to data, we need to further understand what our engagement with outreach looks like, what our attendance is, what the referral rate is, and how we close the loop on any service that a veteran is seeking. So again, going back to that question, we are continuing to have these roundtables to best measure the success of the services that we are providing, but I will have Nicole answer what we are currently doing as well.

(01:16:15)

Thank you for that question. As the Commissioner stated, as we continue to make sure that there is a stronger feedback loop there, what we can share is that for veterans that we have referred to our mental health partners, primarily it has been with Northwell Health as well as the City Bar Justice Center, specifically for veterans experiencing generalized anxiety. We also look to our partners at the federal VA, who do have, as Danny mentioned before, the different vet centers where someone can access support closer to their community. On Staten Island specifically, we work very closely with the Staten Island Performing Provider System to ensure that a veteran and their family are holistically taken care of.

(01:16:50)

And so what are the next steps? It sounds very much so that under new leadership you are really digging into getting as much information as possible, which is incredible. Obviously you want to do something with that information, so is there a sort of a timeline where you are going to be looking at the numbers, the information, the data from this data collection, synthesizing it, analyzing it? What form do you anticipate it will take in terms of a work product, whether it is a report or anything like that?

(01:17:22)

Before I pass it on to you, Nicole, as we are developing this data, as I mentioned, we have developed the data department and the goal is that we can provide that reporting on a monthly basis in-house and will share with any Council Member that would like to know where we are on a monthly basis as well. The goal with that, as we develop this data department, is aftercare. It is going to give us an understanding of the services veterans are seeking, where they are, whether or not they were served, but also with Local Law 37, as I mentioned, that we are working with all of the agencies. This will give us more of an idea of what services veterans are seeking even outside of our agency, and I think that is a major component that we were missing as an agency. Because, for example, I would like to know even further information as to what veterans are going through, what services they are seeking, and what we can do better to connect them. So I think to your point, when we also get the data from certain local agencies, it is going to further help us understand the services that veterans are seeking. But I will pass it on to Nicole.

(01:18:53)

Thank you for that question. I think in addition to what the Commissioner has mentioned, what we have also been really focused on, in the spirit of increasing that self-identification, is also telling the story through the data. I think it is important to see that comprehensive view, seeing what those numbers show and telling that story as well, because I think oftentimes we can see the 22 a day on a page or we can hear these different numbers that get put out there, but it is like, what is the story behind it? What does the actual veteran go through? What does the family member go through? To bring awareness to that as well and make someone feel like they want to also share their story — that is a big focus for us, with the creation of the data department, but also making sure that our communications team is very aligned in that so that they can be that continued storytelling and that continued advocacy as well.

(01:19:39)

Thank you. I want to move to another area, particularly the intersection of military service, mental health, substance use and our criminal legal system. As I mentioned before, during my time as a public defender I represented a lot of veterans, both honorably and dishonorably discharged, and you all know better than most that sometimes these are issues that are cropping up before designations. I cannot tell you how many times I sat literally across from an individual struggling with chronic homelessness and untreated issues, and everybody in the system treated them horribly — whether it was corrections, the judge or the district attorney. I would sit there thinking, when they tell me about their military service, that these same people in government, if they were to picture this person in a different context with their nice, crisp, clean uniform, the level of respect and dignity and willingness to just help would be immediate. Yet in the reality of the ways that we failed in that context, they do not get the benefit of the doubt, and it is a real problem. So with that context in mind, do you keep track of the number of veterans with mental health issues that are also criminal legal system involved or incarcerated — either having open cases or currently incarcerated?

(01:21:21)

I am going to be passing this question to Donna, but I thank you for the question, Council Member, because that is a very important question. I just want to emphasize how we are working very closely with the Commissioner from Corrections. As a matter of fact, I did go to Rikers Island to meet with veterans there, and it was very interesting. I like how you painted that picture, because the suit that they were wearing is one thing, but then when I spoke to them, some of them would tell me, "I was a First Sergeant in the Army." When someone has that type of rank — a First Sergeant, just so you know, there are different ranks, but a First Sergeant is the one that leads the other soldiers — for a moment I pictured him in that uniform and I was referring to him as First Sergeant. So I think a close relationship with the Commissioner for Corrections is very important for the agency. Again, any veteran that comes to our agency, regardless of background — whether they are undocumented, whether some have green card status, whether there are immigration issues, whatever background any veteran comes in with — we serve them. I just wanted to emphasize that. So really, thank you for painting that picture. I will pass it on if you have a sense of the numbers.

(01:23:03)

I do not have the exact numbers but we can get back to you with that. We do also work with the veterans treatment courts and some of the nonprofit agencies that do go out to Rikers to get support to the veteran community. Go ahead, I am sorry — I will pass this question on to Nicole.

(01:23:26)

Thank you for that question. As Donna said, we will follow up with the numbers on that. Something else I just want to add is that for those who have now been out of the system and are looking, and cannot receive any benefits because of that, we cooperate very closely with the State on the Restoration of Honor Act to ensure that their benefits — they are able to still access their benefits specifically on a state and city level as well. If there was an issue where their discharge status was not honorable, we also work with them on that. We do have our benefits team for that, but they have to come to us to sort of ask for that and then to proactively start that process.

(01:24:00)

I wonder how many folks actually know about that. There are lots of things — once you are out, you are focused on the very basic things when you are leaving incarceration, but then there are all kinds of things that you think you are not eligible for that you actually are. Like the number of times that we have to tell people you do in fact have the right to vote under certain conditions, because there is just this blanket assumption that, oh, I spent time on Rikers, that means I cannot vote. So I am just wondering what the connection is with the proactive education around what people can...

(01:24:33)

...work towards, and that is definitely something that we are looking to strengthen, as well as partnering with the veterans treatment courts. We are also exploring being more involved in the housing courts as well, to ensure that we can get this information out there in many different...

(01:24:46)

...avenues. And I know this might be a more appropriate question for the Department of Corrections, but maybe you know the answer to this. Sometimes — and I am trying to picture the arraignment files in my head — I do not know if it is tracked in terms of prior military service, but there are times where we use that information for bail arguments to get people released. Is tracking, as a basic intake marker, whether somebody is a veteran something that is done? I ask that because the next step would be, oh hey, this person is a veteran — automatically reach out to say we have a veteran in custody, to make sure that there is a potential connection to services.

(01:25:30)

Thank you for that question, and that is something that, in addition to increasing Local Law 37 participation, we are exploring, as that is information that we would be interested in as well. That is why we are working with them to see what other information they can provide that can help veterans in the...

(01:25:48)

...system. Thank you. I will hand it back to the Chair.

(01:25:51)

Thank you. In terms of Local Law 37, Local Law 39 and other adherents to them — Commissioner, the fiscal year 2024 report counted veterans who received mental health services, while fiscal year 2025 largely counted requests. Why did we lose the ability to tell whether veterans actually received care from 2024 to 2025? Thank you for that question. While that was a decision of the previous administration, what we are working towards is ensuring that we can report on those numbers. As far as Local Law 37, Commissioner, why have we still not received the reports required under Local Law 37?

(01:26:48)

What specifically is holding that up, and can you give us a firm date for the first report?

(01:27:00)

At the beginning of this hearing I did mention — thank you, Council Member, for this question — as I mentioned, a lot of it is also proactively, as an agency, reaching out through the process of what it means to do this reporting and how it also requires us to build on those systems for them to be able to do that. I know that is currently what we are doing, and that is why there is an increase currently in the number of agencies that are going to be doing that. I will pass this on to Nicole.

(01:27:34)

Thank you for that question. We also look forward to working with the Council on Local Law 37 as well.

(01:27:41)

As far as Local Law 39, only seven agencies provided quantitative data in fiscal year 2025. Which agencies that should be reporting are not doing so? What are you doing to bring them into compliance? What can this committee and this Council do...

(01:27:59)

...to bring them into compliance?

(01:28:04)

Thank you for that question. We can follow up with that list, but what we are doing to engage is ensuring that there are members of our team who are directly working on that continued engagement to also answer any questions that the agencies have with their reporting.

(01:28:19)

Just to go back to the Dwyer Program — Commissioner, you indicated that the Dwyer Program participant surveys show strong satisfaction, and anecdotally that has certainly been my observation as well. Those survey results sound encouraging. How many veterans participated in the programs? How many responded to the survey? And do you track whether participation leads to sustained improvements in well-being or successful referrals to clinical care? Thank you...

(01:28:55)

...for that question. Throughout the life cycle of the last Dwyer funding, we have seen over 1,800 participants, and this is not accounting for those that may have attended multiple Dwyer programs or have returned and came back. What we are also seeing is that 62% of those program participants — because this is open to veterans and their families — have been veterans. What we are working on for this next iteration of Dwyer is collecting more data on what that aftercare follow-up looks like.

(01:29:26)

You have questions, I know you do. Whose job is it to go after the agencies that have not filed the data? Let me ask you this, because this is unacceptable. You only have seven agencies that are complying with Local Law 39, and how are you going to do your job if there is no...

(01:29:47)

...data? Thank you for that question, Council Member. As mentioned, we are building those relationships with each City agency. I am working very closely with our acting General Counsel to be able to guide each agency and to provide, along with our data department, guidance on how they could transfer over that information or share that data with us. Again, with the creation of the data department, that is the goal — to be able to work with these other agencies and make it easier for...

(01:30:24)

...them. Okay. In a related question — this is about the Mayor's Public Engagement Unit — there is a partnership between DVS and the Public Engagement Unit called CoveredVet. My question is: is the CoveredVet program still in effect? And if so, how many vet specialists does the Public Engagement Unit currently employ?

(01:31:02)

Thank you for that question. While the program in that current form of CoveredVet does not run, we are in close collaboration with 311 and the Office of Mass Engagement to ensure that that connection is still happening.

(01:31:15)

I see. So it is no longer operational. Yes. Okay. What about the Well Hotline? If a veteran calls the Well Hotline, how is that different from a regular civilian reaching out? Thank...

(01:31:33)

...you for that. While we can follow up on the specifics of that, what I can say is that there is close collaboration with 311 and with those providers to ensure they are military culturally competent to respond to those calls.

(01:31:44)

All right. Thank you. Thank you.

(01:31:49)

I am actually going to piggyback a little bit on some of the questions around hotlines and emergency crisis. After the veterans emergency crisis hotline — if a veteran is having a mental health crisis and they are in need of immediate assistance, what can they do? What are the different options? I mean, obviously 911 is one, but what are some of the other options?

(01:32:12)

Thank you. Great question.

(01:32:15)

If a veteran calls the agency and is in immediate need, they reach out to our direct government health liaison, Dr. Lauren De Melo, and she talks with the veteran and makes contact with them. She then connects them to services, whether it is 988 or one of the community partners, and you go through that...

(01:32:43)

...process. Are you collecting data from those calls? Yes.

(01:32:48)

So she collects — because of HIPAA, obviously, you know, protecting the person's privacy — but other pieces of information that could be helpful going forward? Yes.

(01:33:03)

Could you tell us what kind of data is being collected?

(01:33:08)

We can get back to you on that. Nicole, go ahead. Thank you for that question. What we do know is that when these calls are made, we do enter them into the VBACS system, which also includes case notes of the conversation as well as what the next steps are, so we are tracking that on VBACS.

(01:33:27)

And then it is the same sort of follow-up protocol where you are looking at several days, a week, two weeks, a month, three months, and we also work in close communication with the referral partners, especially on those high-sensitivity cases. Great.

(01:33:43)

Shifting to another topic — mental health treatment is constantly evolving, and what do you do to keep up to date with emerging and promising mental health treatments for veterans?

(01:33:58)

You know, there is increased use of psychedelics in mental health care, use of ketamine therapy in mental health care, for example. Are you guys staying up to date with those things? If so, what are the...

(01:34:11)

...thank you for that question. What we are...

(01:34:17)

...tracking is that we have monthly veteran health coalition meetings that bring together members of the federal, state as well as community partner organizations to speak about some of these emerging therapies. Most recently we have had some conversations around moral injury and the impacts on mental health from that moral injury. We are also actively tracking, as you mentioned, the psilocybin studies at the VA, piloting in five different sites, to see what the results of that will be. That is something that both on the legislative side of it as well as with the community partners, and listening to the community that knows best, is how we stay up to date on that...

(01:34:48)

...information. Is it sort of a wait-and-see in terms of some of these emerging therapies, where...

(01:34:55)

...it is piloted in some of these spaces and then maybe you will bring it on, or do...

(01:34:59)

...you know if community-based organizations are actively helping connect veterans to these...

(01:35:06)

Therapies. Thank you for that question. While we are not the clinical side of this, or a health care facility, that is what we are doing to make those connections and ensure veterans are kept informed about this information. Specifically, we started a web series where we are sharing more of these stories to reach more people, because we often think in the veteran community it is not a gap of service, it is more of a gap of knowledge of services. So that is something that, as a connector, as someone who goes to facilitate that sharing of information, has proved to be the most impactful way of doing so. Thank you.

(01:35:36)

Thank you. First, let me also thank the members of the public that are going to be testifying. I am very much looking forward to hearing from you in an hour or two. I appreciate your patience on a Friday afternoon. Part of the reason that my colleagues and I have put so much effort into asking informed questions is because we are hoping that you will benefit from some of the answers that we are getting as well. So thank you for that. Just to follow up on what Chair Cabán was alluding to earlier on the issue of incarcerated veterans — maybe you mentioned this, perhaps I missed it — but Commissioner, how many veterans currently incarcerated in our City jails have identified mental health needs?

(01:36:27)

Thank you for that question. While we would have to follow up with the exact number, from what we see in terms of veterans who come to us post-incarceration is our collaboration with our DUALS program. But to speak more towards the internal, that is something we would have to follow up on. And just to put it into context, somewhere up to two thirds of people who are incarcerated at Rikers Island have some sort of mental health need. So the overlap, I would imagine, is pretty high.

(01:36:53)

There, as Chair Cabán alluded to, how differently people would be treated if they were in this clean, crisp military uniform. Is veteran status routinely identified when someone enters custody, and what procedures ensure that veterans do not experience interruptions in treatment when they are in custody or released?

(01:37:16)

Thank you for the question. And just to follow up also, that is what we are hoping to do with the increased participation in Local Law 37 — to be able to have this information and also the nuanced information about those veterans that are also interacting with mental health issues as well. I think, to your follow-up point, Chair, about what was done and what questions are asked, that is something that, as the Commissioner mentioned with our visit to Rikers, and in cooperation with the Corrections Commissioner, is something that we are working on building out — that feedback report to ensure that we know exactly who is there and how we can provide our services.

(01:37:48)

So who is responsible for connecting those veterans to the DVS before they leave custody? Is that a Department of Correction situation or is it somebody else?

(01:38:00)

Thank you for that question. We have a veteran liaison at the Department of Corrections that will connect the veterans there. So the Department of Veterans' Services... I have three final questions.

(01:38:15)

I think, you know, we recently lost the former Governor of New Jersey, Dick Codey, who did a lot in New Jersey for the cause of mental health. One of the things that he did, even as a state senator, was go sort of undercover into different homes as someone in need of mental health services, and him going through that experience really helped him understand some of the gaps that were existing in mental health services. I am curious — does DVS ever test its own system by having someone go through the process as though they were a veteran seeking help? Have you ever tested how many calls it takes, how long someone waits, how many times they have to repeat their story, and whether they ultimately reach a provider?

(01:39:09)

Thank you for that question, Council Member. That is currently what I am doing as the new Commissioner. I am testing and assessing every system that we have in place, including what happens when someone does come into our office and is walking in — what is the waiting period, which staff can cover that. I am assessing all of that, including myself. I also sometimes play that role, and I would say like a mystery shopper, to see how it feels, but also taking into consideration the different backgrounds of individuals that come into the agency. So to your question, that is something that we are assessing and we look forward to continuing to have these conversations.

(01:40:06)

Commissioner, sometimes the veteran who needs help most is the one who stops returning calls. So if someone reaches out to mental health services and then goes silent, what happens? Does anyone follow up? How many attempts are made, and at what point is the case closed? Do you distinguish between a veteran who received help and one you simply could not reach?

(01:40:33)

Thank you for that question. We have a buddy system where if a veteran is in crisis, or we know if they were in crisis, the housing team usually goes out in pairs. The model for mental health is: we get those calls, and if the veteran goes silent and we are unable to make contact with them, we will go out in pairs to make sure that we can knock on that door and safely check in, or coordinate with NYPD or FDNY to help make sure that that veteran is safe. As was mentioned, at the end it is also that close collaboration, whether it be with our City agencies or community partners. Oftentimes it is not just one group or organization that is trying to reach out — it is a joint approach, often with NYPD, with NYC-DOHMH, with the state mental health groups. So for us it is just making sure that we are in close communication with our partners as well to ensure that a veteran is supported.

(01:41:38)

My colleagues and I all spent a great deal of time negotiating with one another and with the administration during the recently passed City budget, and obviously funding for DVS was very important to me — that is something I really went to bat for, particularly given that we are in the midst of a fiscal crisis and we were facing a significant deficit. Something tells me that next year there is going to be a similar deficit issue that we are going to be working to bridge, and I want to make sure that if at all possible we can get even more money. I am curious: if this Council could secure an additional million dollars specifically for veterans mental health, where would you put it? Would it go to more clinicians? Would it go to peer support? Would it go to transportation, outreach, case managers, or something else entirely?

(01:42:38)

What is the specific unmet need, and what measurable result would you expect from an investment like that?

(01:42:48)

Thank you for that question. As we continue working very closely with OMB, and regarding the budget per se, I continue to prepare the agency — whatever results happen within the budget, the goal is to ensure that there are no interrupted services, regardless of what the budget outcome may be. So I think one of the goals is to ensure that services are never interrupted. And I will pass this along as well.

(01:43:38)

Thank you for that question, Council Member. I think that is a great one. For us, no matter what we are doing — when it comes to funding, to programming, to anything — we want to ensure that we have public feedback. That is

(01:43:49)

super important to us. We want the community to guide us and tell us where the gaps are and what the need is, and really get the buy-in from the community. That is our main focus.

(01:43:59)

My final question is: what is the single biggest obstacle preventing DVS from ensuring every veteran who requests mental health care in this City actually receives it?

(01:44:15)

Thank you for the question. As mentioned, at the agency we continue assessing every program, continuously using the data to better understand the services that veterans are needing or where they are going. That is a goal with Local Law 37 as well — to understand what services veterans are obtaining. So we do look forward to receiving the data as the years continue, to ensure that veterans are fully supported.

(01:44:50)

And just to add, thank you for the question — it is not necessarily an obstacle, but it is also just making sure that we are evolving to meet the needs of the community. That is something that is super important to us, as we understand that the community changes and the way that people want to be connected, or what the needs are, is always evolving. With that, I will invite any of my colleagues who have any other final questions.

(01:45:14)

Thank you very, very much for terrific, comprehensive, thoughtful testimony. We will look forward to following up in all the areas that we went over. Thank you very, very much.

All right. Before we open the hearing to public testimony, I also want to acknowledge the presence of Troy Olson, who in addition to being a combat veteran himself is a terrific staff member for my colleague CM Paladino, who is not even on this Committee but has a lot of thoughtful veterans legislation. I think his presence says a lot about my colleague's commitment to following what is going on with veterans issues. Troy, we thank you for your service as well.

Now we will open this hearing for public testimony. I will remind members of the public that this is a formal government proceeding and that decorum shall be observed at all times. As such, members of the public shall remain silent at all times when not testifying. The witness table is reserved for people who wish to testify. No video recording or photography is allowed from the witness table. Further, members of the public may not present audio or video recordings as testimony, but may submit transcripts of such recordings to the Sergeant at Arms for inclusion in the hearing record.

If you wish to speak at today's hearing, please fill out an appearance card with the Sergeant at Arms and wait to be recognized. When recognized, you will have five minutes to speak on today's hearing topic: mental health services for veterans and military families. I think Chair Cabán and I are both going to be pretty flexible on that five-minute testimony requirement. We will hear all in-person testimony first and then we will turn to testimony on Zoom. If you have a written statement or additional written testimony that you wish to submit for the record, please provide a copy of that testimony to the Sergeant at Arms. I can promise you not only will the Committee staff review that and include all of that written testimony in the report about today's hearing, but I will read every word of your testimony personally.

I will now call the first panel: first, Anthony Passaro, and second, Dr. Mecca Nelson. I not only want to thank Dr. Nelson for coming here today and for their patience, but I recognize — and I have had the opportunity to get to meet and speak with Dr. Nelson many times — that being here on a Friday afternoon is not only something that can be inconvenient, but it can be extraordinarily difficult, both emotionally and in some cases physically and logistically. I think the resolution that we are considering is very valuable. Dr. Nelson, I know you specifically have been a real warrior on the issue of White Star veteran recognition and have probably done more than any single New Yorker — certainly any private citizen — to further the urgent need for recognition of White Star families. Thank you in advance for not only being here, but for your work and for your testimony. Dr. Nelson, we will begin with you.

(01:49:00)

Thank you so much. I am Dr. McKenna, a Haitian warrior. I am a U.S. Army Gold Star spouse, a first responder mom, a business owner, and an advocate for veterans and military-connected families. I am also an ambassador for the Institute for Veterans and Military Families and an ambassador for Tunnel to Towers as well.

Good afternoon, Chair and distinguished members of the New York City Council, veterans, military families and everyone gathered here today. I also want to thank Commissioner Mata and team for taking the time to listen to the concerns of our military families, including Gold Star families, Silver Star families and White Star families. Thank you for speaking out about Gold Star families and for bringing attention to White Star families. Your willingness to hear their experiences and raise awareness of their needs matters, and I appreciate your time and attention to these families.

When someone serves our country, their family shares in that service. When that service leaves a family grieving, caregiving or struggling to move forward, our responsibility to support that family must continue. This is connected to recognition and continued advocacy.

First, I want to thank everyone who heard me on September 22 of last year when I stood before you and spoke about White Star families, Silver Star families and Gold Star families. I placed particular emphasis on establishing a day to recognize White Star families, to honor their loved ones, acknowledge their grief and bring greater awareness to their experiences. I also want to emphasize the importance of celebrating and honoring Silver Star families, recognizing their sacrifices and letting them know that they are not alone. Each of these families deserves to feel seen, supported and valued by the community. Today, we are grateful to see the advocacy being held is moving forward.

A roundtable with White Star families would be a meaningful opportunity to hear their concerns directly and understand their needs as a whole. I ask that we continue to make room for that conversation. The families affected by this recognition deserve a voice in what comes next. This is not about me. It is about the families and what this recognition can mean in their lives.

My work with White Star families over the past few years has included being featured on Fox, helping bring greater visibility to experiences that too often go unrecognized. I remain happy and grateful that this recognition is moving forward and that families like Anthony's have a space to be seen, heard and supported. Recognition tells a family: we see you. Meaningful support tells them: we will stand beside you.

Now, this is about accessibility and support and economic opportunities. That brings me to a Gold Star mother who wanted to be in this room today but could not attend because she could not get down the stairs of her home. She is paralyzed and does not have the equipment and assistance she needs to enter and leave her home safely. Getting downstairs requires two people and she faces paying more than $100 for help navigating those steps. Her absence today deserves our attention. Her son served our country and she is a Gold Star mother. She deserves attention. She deserves attention at this hearing. To reach an appointment — which we spoke about already — how do we make that possible?

(01:53:34)

How do we ensure that the support she needs is accessible and affordable? I ask the Council to help identify and close the gaps, and support for military family members with disabilities, including accessibility, home modification, mobility equipment, transportation and dependable personal assistance. Do know that her son was actually taking care of her. This is why this is important.

We must also recognize the emotional toll and mental health barriers. Isolation, grief, uncertainty and whether help will come can weigh heavily on a person's mental health. Accessible services and compassionate support belong in the same conversation. I am going to speak about this again until someone actually sits down with me and has a meeting. Gold Star, White Star and Silver Star family members own businesses. Military spouses, family caregivers own businesses. We create jobs, we provide services and we contribute to this City.

Yet many businesses, workforce and event application forms ask only one question: are you a veteran? For those of us who did not personally serve, the answer is no. But that answer does not capture our military connection, family sacrifice or the barriers we face. I ask that the Council be clear. I am going to tell you how this is a connection to what the commissioner was speaking about, with a clear distinction of a New York family-owned military family-owned business. Such a program could allow eligibility for businesses to gain visibility, connect with procurement opportunities and access business development resources. It should complement existing certifications and recognize the contribution of military-connected families across the workforce and business programs. Families should not disappear from consideration simply because a form has no place for them.

I have a business. I do business with the City and the State, and just to let you know, I also work with Rikers. So when you think about this, we are out there, we are doing things, but we are basically invisible at this point. And this is something that is really deep because we all experience it as a military-connected community.

We also need to hold accountability for the organizations that serve us. I have personally experienced disrespect within an organization with other Gold Star families, White Star and Silver Star families, even the children, with how they are being treated. I chose to leave. I actually had a personal experience on 9/11, or two years ago, but it just does not stop there. There are so many of us that go through it, even in the military community that is working with us to help us with paperwork, with benefits, with children's scholarships. I went through that whole process. I just helped a family member with their grandchild because the grandchild was going to go to college and they were receiving horrible service.

Veterans and military families deserve fair understanding. They should be a protected demographic, meaning that dignity must never depend on someone's personal preference. I ask that the Council strengthen oversight within its authority and encourage coordination with State and federal partners. That would include meaningful feedback from people receiving services, accessible complaint procedures, independent evaluation and staff training in respect and trauma-informed communications. No family should have to fight to be treated with dignity by an organization meant to support them.

As for recognition, I want to acknowledge that I am seeing meaningful changes in the language used in event announcements, articles and public writings. I appreciate that more organizations are referring not only to veterans but also to families, military families and military-connected families. If anybody knows me, this is all I speak about. This inclusive language matters. When a communication says only "veterans," it can unintentionally leave out military-connected families, including families whose veteran loved one died from a health condition and families who did not personally serve. Naming military-connected families opens the doors for more people to step into these spaces, be recognized and receive support.

I recently saw a public item listing Gold Star families in connection with housing for veterans, also in a whole article, which was beautiful. It speaks about housing assistance scheduled to launch on October 1. This is the twentieth year anniversary of my late husband, Sergeant Mario, who was killed in combat, so I am hitting twenty years now. My question is around this: for those that are not considered Gold Star families — for instance, I met a young lady whose fiancé was killed right in his motor vehicle. She will not receive the same benefits that I received. She received something totally different. Does that include that particular demographic of a family? Because you cannot call her a surviving spouse. Where does that include her? And she has four children.

I want to affirm that these efforts are being heard and are making a difference. I also have additional matters to raise at a future meeting. Now, before I come to a complete close, I would like to recognize someone whose experience helped deepen my commitment to advocating for White Star families. Just to hear the commissioner and the deputy speak about the Dwyer Program — I was one of the organizations that was part of the Dwyer Program, and when I met Anthony, I told him about the program and he would come and attend. This is another way that I was able to actually help him. So I personally am grateful for the Dwyer Program.

Just to let you know, Anthony is here in memory of his son Adam, a combat veteran who later worked for Homeland Security and died by suicide. Anthony shared the grief his family continues to carry and the isolation he felt before finding connection and support. His family's experience is one reason I continue raising this issue, including in conversations with former Commissioner James Hendon and in my testimony before this Council today. We can hold both gratitude and grief. Recognition cannot bring Adam back, but it can help ensure that his family's loss feels seen, remembered and less alone.

We also have a Gold Star mother watching, although she will not be speaking today. I want to acknowledge her presence and the importance of making participation accessible. Thank you for hearing us and for helping move this recognition forward. I ask that we carry that commitment into accessible services, economic opportunities and accountability.

I would like to say something before Anthony comes up. I do not believe you have this copy, but I do believe in positivity. I do believe in working together as a community. But what I do not appreciate is lack of communication, poor communication, no communication or just disregarding someone. I personally brought this to the table September 22 of last year. Like I said, I do not do this for myself. I do this with all my heart and I work closely with these communities. Once I learned that the resolution was being worked on, I made multiple requests to meet with Council Member Paladino's office, which I understood was

(02:04:06)

handling the matter. I did not receive a response to my phone calls or text messages. I had made clear that I was available and willing to contribute. I am here. Please reach out to me. When those requests went unanswered, I felt disregarded. I understand that Council offices have many demands, but acknowledging those requests and making space for a conversation would have mattered.

I brought this issue forward with a purpose: to help ensure that White Star families could be heard and that their experiences would inform the work being done. A roundtable or meeting with White Star families would have been a meaningful opportunity to hear their concerns directly and understand their needs as a whole. The families affected by this recognition deserve a voice in what comes next.

This is not about assigning blame. Please understand, this is all about peace and love. It is about communication, inclusion and ensuring that the families connected to this work have an opportunity to be heard. I remain grateful that recognition for these families is moving forward and I hope there can still be meaningful engagement with the families affected by the

(02:05:37)

resolution. First of all, thank you for your testimony. Before we get to Anthony, on behalf of the Committee and the Council and all Staten Islanders, we have all experienced grief and trauma. I do not know that many of us have experienced the kind of grief and trauma that you have had to undergo, and I think it would be very easy to take that grief and just completely retreat from public life. What you have done is really a model for how all of us who experience loss can channel that grief into something positive. You are truly inspiring and I am grateful that you have chosen activism.

I have three brief questions for you and then look forward to hearing from you, sir. So you told us in your testimony about a Gold Star mother who wanted to be here but could not leave her home because she lacks the mobility equipment and assistance she needs, and that is just heartbreaking. I would like our Committee to do more than simply acknowledge it. With her permission, I hope that you will be willing to connect her with my office so that we can work with the appropriate agencies to identify what assistance might be available. I am happy to go to wherever she is. I am wondering if this is a problem you are encountering with other military families as well.

(02:07:05)

Yes, it is. Yes, she is not the only one.

(02:07:08)

You suggested, and I think it is a great idea, convening a roundtable with White Star families to hear directly about their needs. I would certainly be interested in doing that. If we organized a roundtable through this Committee, what are the three most pressing issues you would want us to address? And would you be willing to help us bring those families together?

(02:07:31)

Yes, and I would also want to bring together Silver Star families, because not too many people know what a Silver Star family is. Does anybody know what a Silver Star family is? I only know because I have heard you speak on this before. So a Silver Star family member is a family of a veteran that served our country, whether they were injured, have mental health issues or are even working everyday jobs like our families do. That is the Silver Star family. Their families are considered Silver Star.

Gold Star families like me are families of veterans who died by suicide, but that definition changes because this particular Gold Star mom's son passed in a different way, but they still labeled her as Gold Star. A White Star — we obviously know what that is, because we are speaking about it today. Before I was speaking about it, no one knew a word about what it was, and it was heartbreaking. Finally being able to be present here to speak about it is a big thing.

The three points I think we would focus on are: first, awareness — meaning education around it, acknowledging it. I do believe the communities do not know that they are Silver Star. The communities do not know that they are White Star. I was at an event and there was a woman in her 50s and we were having a conversation. I was telling her what I do and she said, "Oh, I did not know I was a White Star. My father actually died by suicide because he could not take it anymore." The second point is communication and the language and how they speak with us. That is the third one. I could give you a list of more, but we will stay in touch.

(02:09:32)

My last question: you spoke about experiencing disrespect within an organization that was supposed to support military families, and you recommended stronger complaint procedures and independent evaluation. Without asking you to identify the organization or revisit a difficult experience, what would a meaningful accountability system look like? Should organizations receiving City funding be required to have a confidential complaint process, or report complaints and demonstrate how they resolve them? Do you have any other suggestions about how we can handle that going

(02:10:12)

forward? Yes, I do believe in something you said that I have actually spoken about prior: going undercover into these organizations and companies. I have spoken about this, telling them they do not have to know your real story. You could just come as if you are looking for service. You can just come and put in a whole acting moment, as if you are even a Gold Star, and see how people treat you, see how they communicate with you, see what services they provide for you.

I also do feel that there should be a space where you can file a complaint. Normally when you say "anonymous complaint," it is not really anonymous if you think about it, because they will still find out who you are. Like when you call 911, they are still going to know who called. So in my eyes, it will never be truly anonymous, but it has to be ensured that their information is protected and that the organization will never know who made the complaint. Because what happens is some people will come out and take precautions, and if they have all your information and know who you are, you will be harassed. This happens a lot. Thank you.

(02:11:29)

Nelson Pissarro.

(02:11:29)

Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for being here. Thank you. I just want to thank this Council for recognizing Dr. Nelson today and myself. It is just amazing the work that she is doing. When you said she was a role model, she is a role model to her daughter, who was three years old at the time, and she brought her up with those values. She never turned to drugs. You know, this could happen — you lose your father and you get bitter — but she did not let that happen. She stood on top of it, and she is one of the reasons I am here.

Because I was gone, you know. You lose your son, it is a tragedy. He was going for therapy, and one of the mornings — he was in therapy that afternoon — he took his own life. He suffered from PTSD. He suffered from survivor's guilt. His Army buddy got killed in front of him and he took it very badly. He had that guy's name tattooed on his own arm. That is how much it affected him. But he persevered, and he was a sergeant, and he went from human resources in the Army to intelligence. So when he had to leave the Army because of PTSD, and he had gotten injured, Homeland Security scooped him up and he did really, really well with them. Everything was going wonderful. And then he

(02:13:21)

actually did a really great thing with Homeland Security and got a big award. We all went to Washington. Anyway, if it was not for Dr. Nelson here, she took me under her wing at the beginning and she went through exactly the same thing. She schooled me on what was coming, what each process was going to be, and then all the services that you people provide. This is so important, not only for veterans that are still living, but for the veterans that took their own lives or died because of the Army or the Navy or the whole military.

And then to get this revelation here about a White Star Day — I mean, it is mind-boggling and it means a lot to me. Just like my therapist and psychiatrist would tell me, you have got to tell people, you have got to talk about it. But it is impossible, it is so hard. How many people could you tell? I could tell you and you and you, but it is piecemeal. But when she got me on television on a Friday night on Channel 2, I believe at 10 or 4, I got to speak about my son. It is like I told the whole world. Things like this are so important when you lose a child. I just want to thank everybody here, and especially

(02:15:03)

well, thank you. And thank you for sharing your experience and Adam's story. How old was Adam when he passed away?

He was 38.

Really? Obviously I would not trade places with you for anything, and I can imagine the anguish that you have been through since your son's passing. I think that is exactly the intent of putting forward a resolution recognizing White Star families — so other people feel some comfort in sharing their stories and can connect with other similarly situated families.

It might be an impossible question for you to answer, but something tells me you have thought about this a lot. What do you think — if anything, because ultimately when we talk about data, when we talk about outreach, when we talk about funding, we talk about numbers — but really it all comes down to preventing incidents like what happened to your son from happening again. What do you think the City of New York could do, whether it is one thing or a thousand things, that would have gotten your son the care that he needed in order to avoid him taking his own life?

(02:16:22)

This — I mean, he was going for therapy right from the get-go, and when he had to leave the Army, they did not just say, "See you." You know, they felt that he had enough in his bank that he should still be serving in a different capacity. And that capacity was Homeland Security, in which he, you know... but just keep doing what you are doing. You know, like, this is a miracle woman here. I mean, she lost a husband and had to bring up a child alone, and she did not get bitter. She just kept going and going to help with this. So it is just supporting, you know, this kind of support. That is what I would say, you know?

(02:17:18)

Well, we think you are both pretty inspirational also. Thank you, sir. I am sorry for both of you and the loss that you have experienced. Thank you for sharing it with this committee. Hopefully sharing it will help other families in the future. Please, I just...

(02:17:34)

...want to say something. I know you said a lot of people may not know me, but it did not happen overnight for me. It was 11 years. It took 11 years. But the focus was to focus on my daughter, to make sure she elevated. The focus was to keep the promise that we made amongst each other — if something happened to him, please make sure you do what you have got to do to take care of our child. And that I did. There was no space to make excuses for me. That is how I feel.

So when you say that, and when Anthony stated what he said, it is me holding my relationship with God and turning my pain into a purpose. That is giving me the fuel to do what needs to be done, because the strength is there. I had to learn how to utilize it. And it is having great people in my circle to support me with the work that is being done. DVS has been the one to really bring me out of that bubble and box that I was in, from when the former Commissioner James Hendon was in, and now meeting with you and looking forward to connecting with everyone else to make that happen.

But I want to say to you guys as I end off — thank you, Anthony, for sharing your heart and honoring Adam's memory with us today. Your words remind us why this recognition matters and why families must have the opportunity to speak for themselves.

(02:19:11)

To the Council: thank you for hearing our voices and moving this recognition forward. I hope we build on this movement by listening to families, responding to their concerns, and making support easier to access — to our White Star families, Silver Star families and Gold Star families and veterans, and even Blue Star families, because we actually have Blue Star families sitting in here. You know, you deserve to be seen, honored and supported. You are not alone. May today's recognition lead to lasting action for the families who need us now. I thank you for this opportunity.

(02:19:57)

Can I put some bullet points with what I spoke about?

(02:20:01)

You know, the best way to get those on the record is to either submit them or to give them to the sergeant at arms, and we will make sure it is part of the record of this hearing and recorded in your testimony going forward. Dr. Nelson, thank you for your daughter's service. Thank you for your husband's service. Thank you most of all for the service you have continued to provide to a whole lot of families and a whole lot of New Yorkers. And for your son's service and the service you are providing as well — thank you both for being here. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. Next panel. First of all, I want to acknowledge CM Lee, fresh off her own lengthy hearing across the street, who is now here, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and as attentive as ever. Great to be joined by CM Lee. Thank you. Next panel — I want to welcome up David Kapner, and if I mispronounce anybody's name, please correct me. Fionn... O'Grady? And for Miss — did I pronounce your first name correctly? Fionn? Fionn. Oh, Fionn. Okay, great. Well, there is a D in there and my screen...

(02:21:21)

...that could be an error. All right, Kapner, and just make sure we...

(02:21:29)

I would still make sure you have a red light on that. Oh, I am sure you have got stories that you could share privately, and both would love to hear them. Well, we might have to change mics. We heard your colleague and the powers that be will not be silenced, so clearly... hang on one sec, we do not want to miss a syllable. All right, please...

(02:22:06)

...proceed. Good afternoon. My name is David Kapner — K, A, P, N, E, R. I am an attorney with the Legal Aid Society. I have been an attorney at the Legal Aid Society since 1980 and a supervisor since 1996. I represent, and the people I supervise represent, our clients — many, many, many of whom suffer from mental health issues and drug addiction, and that has led directly to their criminality or alleged criminality. Many of our clients are also veterans, and again there is a lot of overlap amongst those groups.

I would like to specifically — thank you for taking on the issues that you have been taking on. These are really important issues, and unless people such as yourselves take them on and see that the programs are funded and attention is drawn to them, it just will not happen. So I represent a lot of people in alternatives to incarceration programs. Veterans Court is one of those programs. The Veterans Court is special — obviously everyone there is a veteran. Part of the problem is...

(02:23:24)

...that getting funded for any of it is difficult. It is a specialty court. The judges undergo specialized training, the court staff undergoes specialized training, and my counterpart in the DA's office has also undergone training. But the programs that we utilize in Veterans Court are the same programs, for the most part, that are in drug court or mental health court — hopefully, but not always, with a specialized veterans focus. That is not always the case.

There are advantages. The Veterans Administration does oversee many of their eligible veterans to sort of coordinate care. There are certain things about Veterans Court that set it apart from other alternatives to incarceration. The most important is the commonality of experience among the participants themselves. In mental health court or drug court or other programs, people are on their own, and it is difficult. In Veterans Court, you are on your own journey, but you are going down that road with people who have experienced very many things that you have also. There is a lot of camaraderie, there is a spirit of esprit de corps, and in the rough moments — when you are trying to overcome drug addiction or trying to stay on your medication despite the side effects, and you are dealing with homelessness or other problems — your fellow veterans are there to help you. That is not true in a lot of the other programs.

The programming that veterans get tends to be a little bit better than other programs that are not veteran-specific. If you are eligible for benefits, so much the better — those programs tend to be well funded. Most of our clients are not in veterans or VA programs per se, but the VA does help fill the gaps and coordinate aftercare, and certainly with reporting to the court. Veterans can also be really rehabilitated in the classic sense of the word. Many of our clients who have mental health issues and drug addiction issues come to us later in life — they do not turn 20 or 19 and suddenly become criminal justice involved. They were very functional, at just the minimal level. They hit their 30s or 40s and something happens and they fall off. It is harder to rehabilitate folks who have just sort of survived, just sort of gone below the radar. But veterans are different.

Veterans have accomplished a great deal. In order to get into Veterans Court, you do not have to be honorably discharged, but you certainly do have to have graduated from basic training and have often been assigned very important jobs — not just combat, but handling jet fuel, handling explosives, and even administrative work dealing with other veterans. These are very important jobs. To the extent that people are coming through a period of mental health crisis or drug addiction, it is just that much easier to bring them back to a place where they have already been, as opposed to trying to get them to a spot where they have really never been. Veterans have a tremendous advantage there, and I think it speaks to the efficiency of Veterans Court that it really accomplishes what we would like to see in all the alternatives to incarceration programs.

In Veterans Court, I think someone spoke about it before, there are peer mentors that come from the VA. Even if you are not eligible for VA services per se, the mentoring program is there. They will call you and check in with you. You can call them. They will be at court to greet you. Court can be very stressful — you can imagine how stressful it is to be in court and have your life talked about in front of an audience, and not the best parts of your life. So the mentors are there. They are very supportive. You can reach out to them, they will check in with you, and it is almost always the same group. The VA has Veteran Justice Outreach coordinators that can help coordinate care both during the programming and aftercare. While they focus on people who are eligible for VA services, they also help coordinate things that are sort of beyond our pay grade — mostly post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, which is something that most legal practitioners do not know that much about. So they can be very informative in that regard as well.

If I will make this the last point: as part of their military training, veterans are used to dealing with a highly structured environment, and that gives them a much higher chance of graduating the program, because the programs are structured. That is something that, as a benefit of having been a veteran, they can get the most out of. I really believe in Veterans Court. I think it needs to be funded. The complaint I will leave you with is that the spots are limited, and it is not limited by desire on my part — it is the programming. These programs have just so many beds and they are in high demand.

The people who get involved with Veterans Court are people who would otherwise go to jail. People who are criminal justice involved but not really facing time do not really get the opportunity to participate in Veterans Court. So there is not a misdemeanor veterans court. I wish there was. Because the people who suffer from post-traumatic stress — the sorts of crimes that they become involved with tend to have a violent component. They possess firearms, they are involved in domestic violence often while drunk or on drugs, they fight with police officers while being arrested on minor things. Many of these things can exclude them from Veterans Court by the nature of the charge. In Manhattan, the judge and the DA's office understand that to a point. So they will consider people who have committed crimes that might otherwise disqualify them, but it is a heavy lift. I compliment them because they will hear me on that. But I wish that the program was expanded — not just in its bandwidth, but in the number of spots. Yes. Thank you so much.

(02:30:32)

I mean, what I was going to ask you about — you actually started to address it at the end of your testimony — the exclusion. It seems like the folks who would benefit most from the programming immediately get excluded, and we see this with mental health courts as well. It is like, if there is a history of an act of violence, even if that act is fundamentally connected to a mental health need — prior service and PTSD, whatever it is — you are excluded, when probably that is the most important investment you could make. You are making everybody safer by allowing for that. I have never made sense of it. It seems more like a policy that is focused on whether the judge or the DA will end up on the front page of the Post, rather than whether we can get the person the help that they need to keep them and others safer. They are elected officials and I am not, so I do not want to judge too harshly... but I will go ahead and judge. Okay. But yeah, I think, you know, I hear you on wanting expanded eligibility. And then to your point — it does not account for... because when we are talking about more serious charges, I am assuming, what is the criteria in terms of this? Does it have to be an indicted felony, or like, what is it? You have to be...

(02:32:00)

It has to be an indicted felony. It mirrors Criminal Procedure Law Section 216, which defines drug court. So most often it is nonviolent felonies. They can be — you could have a prior felony in your past and then it is up to the DA to accept you or not. But if you are paper-eligible, if you fit within Section 216, which is nonviolent felonies, they will say, yeah, let's...

(02:32:30)

...do it. But if they are paper-eligible and have a violent felony as a predicate, they can still compete. How often do they? Yeah, depending on that I can say — and I was like, you know, I am asking to have it on the record that if it is a remote felony, or yeah, certainly if the behavior is directly tied to your service, they are almost always going to consent. But that is up to us to sort of point that out, to make the case, and sometimes that can be hard. One of the biggest barriers is that many of our clients are homeless and they do not have access to the right records.

(02:33:10)

So the ticket into Veterans Court is the DD-214, which is your discharge. That ever...

(02:33:16)

...works. Yeah. If you are homeless, if you are living on the street or even in a shelter, that is one of the things you do not have in many cases. If your mom or dad are still alive, that is something they may have — they have that with your birth certificates in the same folder. Even if they are not around, if you have an older sister who is the family historian, you can reach out and get it from them. If you have had it in the past...

(02:33:44)

...they have a copy of it. If none of those things apply, you have to submit a form to the government, and four or five months later they will get back to you with that information. But meanwhile the client will sit in jail, hopefully getting some sort of medication services, but not...

(02:34:01)

...always. And going back to — this is, you know, a long time ago for me — as long as, you know, when we were getting trained on our arraignment interviews, one of the things that we were told to ask is whether somebody is a veteran. But do you happen to know if that is something that is on the...

(02:34:22)

...it has been added to the interview.

(02:34:25)

Okay. "Are you a veteran?" Okay. I will hasten to add, many veterans do not self-identify.

(02:34:30)

Yeah, there was...

(02:34:31)

...some just feel that being arrested as a veteran is a shameful thing to say.

(02:34:36)

Because being a veteran, as you know, is an earned status. It is like being a firefighter or a teacher or a nurse. It is something that you have earned. And my impression, and what I have been told from my clients, is they do not want to tarnish other veterans by their association with them because of what they have gotten into. So many veterans do not self-identify at that moment. And then there is a smaller problem, but significant enough to mention: there are people who will identify as veterans who have not earned that status. We have to be very careful as people's advocates — people are desperate, they want to get out from under, and they say things that are not true. We want to be able to aid them by filtering that out, but it is hard to get someone to say they are a veteran if they are not.

(02:35:22)

Sometimes you can tell from their demeanor, how they address you — all those...

(02:35:25)

...different kinds of things. I am sorry.

(02:35:26)

Is that how they address you in the interview? If someone looks... passes the yes or no, sir — yeah, you have got the next question you ask. But also there was a time when men of a certain age, you would just naturally ask. For women of a certain age, when I first started, I would still see Vietnam vets very often, and there were no services in place once you were involved in the criminal justice system. They just did not have the time or energy for you. Post-Gulf War, there was a lot of effort put in, and that is always the case — after military action, there is a spike. And we saw it there, right?

(02:36:07)

Yeah. The one last thing that I want to ask you about — and I asked the administration about it too — is that the Veterans Treatment Court does not account for, you know, what we would call just the frequent flyer: the person that comes in a lot on low-level misdemeanors or violations who are veterans, and fundamentally the problem is...

(02:36:33)

...right there, and access to services is failing them. Yeah, we have programming in place...

(02:36:39)

...recently through cases and other organizations to treat people, but...

(02:36:44)

...for cases we are usually mandating two or three sessions and it is not right. But this person needs housing, and where there is no veteran-specific programming, they will be more than happy to connect you. Yes, they can, if they become aware that you are a veteran. But it is not like you show up and it is like, "Oh, you are a veteran? Yeah, we have got something for you over here, separate and apart." And I wish there were.

(02:37:07)

Were those cases you solved at arraignments, and you know, you get told, oh, the offers, you know, violation of time served, misdemeanor and time served, nobody having a conversation about anything else. That is right. Oh, I am getting out right now. Okay, cool. See you later. That is right.

(02:37:23)

With a court mandate comes the possibility of failure, and failure could have consequences — that is another problem. Yeah, if we seek to protect our clients, if facing enough consequences to go down the treatment road, that is what usually happens. But if you are not facing those consequences right now, we do not want to usher you into a spot you really do not want to be, you know.

But if only folks got the services they needed before the arrest... People who are criminal justice involved because of drugs or mental health, there are lots of setbacks. It is not just getting them in the door. You have too many, many times to quote from treatment. At some point it will stick, or something in your life changes and you become much more open to it. But we do not want to set up our clients for failure. Totally. Totally. Thank you.

(02:38:17)

Listen.

(02:38:17)

My questions. Well, well done. Whatever is in the water at your workplace that produced both of you, CM Cabán should be replicated across the five boroughs. I do hope many of my constituents will follow your lead and not judge elected officials too harshly. Very informative, and you have just such a great perspective on veterans court and everything that you spoke about. What do you think the City could do, either in terms of the City Council passing a law, in terms of funding, in terms of outreach, in terms of agency behavior, that would expand the influence and the usefulness of veterans courts? One of the tricky things about the criminal justice system is so much of it involves state law, so much of it involves policies of local DA offices. What could City government do to enhance outreach or the usefulness of these veterans courts?

(02:39:17)

I think the standout thing is just an expansion of the spots available. There is a limit on spots. There are just so many beds and there is sadly a lot of need. So just having those spots available, and perhaps the screening process, which sometimes can take a long time — shortening that, because every day behind bars is very stressful and traumatic and just makes recovery that much harder. So to shorten the time between being considered for treatment, for treatment court, veterans court, accepted or rejected — just shortening that time can be very beneficial.

But I will also say that I know there is a veterans pod within the Department of Correction, and last time I checked there was a waiting list for veterans to get into it. So that could be expanded — just in general for veterans and all around mental health, but veterans especially. That would be helpful, that they...

(02:40:21)

Could concentrate and focus their efforts on veterans.

(02:40:26)

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, and it is a pleasure. My name is Vienna O'Grady and I am Director of Government Relations at Samaritans of New York, which is a suicide prevention center. We have a hotline and we have a program...

(02:40:49)

...for those who have lost a loved one to suicide. Together with the National Alliance on Mental Illness, with NAMI, we do education for the Department of Education and for many of the services around the City. We have been around for 40 years, and it is a pleasure to have this kind of topic out in the open. I thank Dr. Nichols and also Anthony and his family. I am in the company of people I rarely am with, which is a whole pool of people who are paying attention to suicide and suicide prevention and also to the dignity of those who have been left behind with their sorrow. So it is an amazing accomplishment to be here today and to be here for the resolution.

I would say, listening to the Commissioner, I have the same statistic, which is that between 2012 and 2021, veterans in the City died by suicide at approximately twice the rate of civilians. We know that suicide is preventable. We know that the majority of people who survive a suicide attempt do in fact live and go on to live full lives. I think also the importance of distinguishing between feeling suicidal, having a plan, having the means available, having a time set, and actually completing suicide — I always teach and preach that we have to look at suicide not as an outcome but as a symptom, and as a feeling that is present perhaps at one moment in time, but it is not an automatic outcome. It is not a death sentence. Just like if you have a cold, the flu, you have pneumonia and end up in hospital, you can still come home and live. If you have emphysema you might live with it. Suicide is a nuanced topic. It is not a black and white issue and it can come and go. So being empathetic, and especially for our veterans who are at more risk, to be able to acknowledge and be proud and to put them in with the Gold Star Families is an amazing accomplishment that should have been done earlier.

Dr. Nichols is fabulous, you know, to say these things out loud. I think that is tremendous. When we talk about veterans we have to talk about the families. Military service affects spouses, parents, children, caregivers, friends, the people who provide and care for them. And after a crisis, for families who have lost a service member or veteran to suicide, that impact continues long after the death. Recognizing White Star Families is one way for the City to see that families should not be overlooked in our City and in our broader suicide prevention efforts.

At Samaritans, our work is grounded in a single principle: people need multiple pathways to support. Prevention works when it reaches across a whole community instead of resting on one particular service. The U.S. Air Force saw a significant reduction in suicide, homicide and family violence after implementing that kind of coordinated approach. They did that study and literally they could see that those who are suicidal — because it was a huge opportunity within the Air Force to study a closed group — it is a very significant study. What it found is that helping a person who is suicidal is to allow them to have the autonomy to choose the kinds of support that they believe will help them. So for one person it could be turning to a religious pastor. Another person will not go there at all. One person will want to go to a psychiatrist and take medication. Another person does not want that. So it is thinking about it not only as what one thing should we do, but allowing options and support and engaging with our veterans to have them choose from an array of services where they will find their maximum support. That would be my big takeaway from the years I have worked in this field.

Obviously we need accessible clinical care, community support and peer support, including the Veterans Crisis Line, and alternative places that people can turn to when those systems do not feel like the right place to begin. We need people and organizations like Samaritans and others. We thank the Council. We operate New York City's only completely confidential and anonymous 24-hour suicide prevention hotline. We answer 60-plus thousand calls a year and we do not even have the technology to trace a call. There are 400 Samaritan centers in 40-plus countries worldwide and we all believe in that value.

I have seen, and we know from the studies, that we also need to be careful. We absolutely agree that 988 is a brilliant service, but we also know that statistically, those who are hospitalized without their permission — because they have made a phone call to 988 and the person answering the call determines that that person is at risk for harming themselves or others, and then decides to trace the call and bring help to that person, who then goes to the hospital or is involved with police, et cetera — we know that they will be more at risk for suicide and have not learned to turn towards that kind of help. So I think also having 988 continue to have a more nuanced approach to the assessment of harm to others, and especially harm to yourself, is important. That is why I speak about the distinction: you can have suicidal thoughts, you can have the means available, you know how to do it, but you do not have a time set. You reach the edge of the cliff when all of those align. On our suicide prevention hotline, that is our way of teaching and preaching. And also, yes, you are calling an anonymous line, but ultimately you are calling a suicide prevention line. You are not calling a service that can help you to die. You are calling a service to prevent suicide. So we need a multiplicity of approaches, and I think for our veterans especially, because they are so high risk, it is extraordinary to know that the White Star Family even exists.

I would say that I was ignorant and did not know about it. I am very pleased to learn that, and also to learn from Dr. Nichols the many nuanced ways of looking at our veterans and being of assistance to them.

(02:49:08)

Thank you, CM Mealy, and it is lovely to see the former chair. I was just going to — that is a perfect segue because I was going to say it always makes me happy coming and seeing CM Cabán. Sorry. Who is now doing great work on the Mental Health Committee, and of course we have our amazing Chair, Frank Morano, who is here as well. And of course, thank you so much for your work because you and I have talked a lot about suicide prevention.

Just for David, I have a quick question. When we first joined the Council back in 2022, I think it was actually that first year when we were in office where myself and then-former Chair Bob Holden of the Veterans Committee held a joint hearing specifically on the veterans treatment courts. That had not been done, I think, before — or at least had not been looked at since 2015. I remember there were a lot of interesting things to look at there in terms of the intersectionality with mental health and the criminal justice system. One of the things that came from that was the lack of number of peers available to help those veterans, to try to get them — because obviously having that lived experience goes a long way when you are trying to get someone to maybe apply for benefits or do something else in that area.

So I just wanted to know what the numbers for peer support look like now, because that is something that we actually — through the peer support initiative, which CM Cabán I know was very involved in initiating a couple of years ago — that was one of the things I was wondering if that area is being served at all and if that could be amped up.

(02:50:56)

Yeah, I cannot give you an exact answer. I wish I could. My experience is I go to court and it is a core group of two, three or four peers that I almost always see. Then there are people that come who are either learning or have some time but not a lot of time. The people I see are mostly retired. They sit in court all day. So the short answer is I do not know, but my personal experience is that they exist and they make a big difference.

(02:51:31)

Yeah, I think at the time there was one... we should go. I guess I am just — you are exactly getting to my question, which is if there was more of a formalized way to get folks into the pipeline, would that or could that help? It would help. Anyway, I have two brief questions.

(02:51:57)

Grady.

(02:51:57)

First of all, thank you for your testimony. Well done. You emphasized that Samaritans offers a completely confidential and anonymous hotline and that some veterans might be more comfortable seeking help without giving their names or entering a government system. What should we be doing differently to reach those veterans? Are there opportunities for the City to work more closely with Samaritans to connect veterans with help while protecting that anonymity?

(02:52:32)

I am not quite sure, but I think robust discussions and roundtables are great. I did go out to the hallway and I introduced myself to the Commissioner, and we are going...

(02:52:42)

...to meet. Wonderful. My last question. Very...

(02:52:45)

Apropos, since you could do that because the Commissioner is still here.

(02:52:48)

Exactly. That is how we roll — Staten Islanders do not leave.

(02:52:54)

And also I would like to do more work in Staten Island. It is the only borough that we do not have a direct connection with. Well, let us stay in touch. I happen to know some people in Staten Island. So today is...

(02:53:08)

...as I mentioned, the 79th anniversary of the Air Force. You cited research which I found just fascinating, showing that the Air Force achieved reductions in suicide, homicide and family violence through a coordinated community-wide prevention program. What specific elements of that approach could New York City adopt? If you could recommend one change to the City's current suicide prevention strategy for veterans, what would it be?

I do not feel qualified to... I mean, I think I can work with the Commissioner and also bring my co-executive director Graham, who serves on the National Council for Suicide Prevention as one of seven large organizations representing all our Samaritan branches in the U.S. Her focus is more on the policy side and I look forward to that. Okay.

(02:54:05)

Thank you.

(02:54:06)

Grady, thank you. Captain, thank you both. Thank you. Yes, thank you both. All right, and I believe that is all we have for folks testifying in person. I want to thank everybody for being here. Let me thank all of you who came here to share your thoughts and experiences today. If there is anyone in the room who wishes to speak but has not yet had the opportunity to do so, please raise your hand and fill out an appearance card with the Sergeant at Arms at the back of the room. Seeing no one, that concludes the in-person portion of our public testimony. We will now move to remote testimony. If you are testifying remotely, please listen for your name to be called. Once your name is called, a member of our staff will unmute you and you may then start your testimony once the Sergeant at Arms sets the clock and cues you to begin. We will begin with Graham, certainly no stranger to this Committee and somebody who has been very helpful in providing a lot of veteran services in our office and a lot of Council Members' offices, also a great member of our Veteran Advisory Board. Start when you are ready, you may begin.

(02:55:31)

Thank you, Chair Morano. I do not really have any formal testimony. I just came back from sitting on the VFW's National Legislative Committee and yeah, it has been pretty busy, so I do not have time. I just have a bunch of talking points. Yeah. I also do have to say I had the pleasure of finally meeting Councilwoman, or Chair Cabán, a few weeks ago in her office during our claims clinic for the Bronx Veterans Initiative. Councilman Phil Wong — I want to acknowledge him as well — same as a Council resource. Great to see you all up here today.

(02:56:11)

Yeah, there is a lot to take in here. As somebody — I know you guys, pretty much everybody in the room — they know I wear a lot of different caps within the veterans sphere, from local to the state to the national level, including serving as a board member.

(02:56:37)

Dr. Nelson spoke and as usual it is very powerful. I am going to throw it out there. She did not mention it — it is not for me to say, she can go into detail. I know she speaks to everybody that is here in person...

(02:56:51)

...about her late husband.

(02:56:54)

Dr. — I was going to say, Dr. Sergeant Mario Nelson is coming up on 20 years. He was killed in action.

(02:57:00)

Right after he came back from Baghdad, and...

(02:57:06)

The one thing I do want to mention, and I will say this, is that there is always such a focus on military members, on these service members that deploy. They do leave something behind, and that is the family. The family, they go through it too. They deploy also, in a sense.

(02:57:30)

The family members — you are talking about spouses that have to do double and triple duty, and not only...

(02:57:36)

...work, if some do work, but they are raising a family of their own, taking care of the household. And I am glad that Dr. Nelson brought that up.

(02:57:48)

And just Gold Star Families.

(02:57:51)

Unfortunately, here locally in Queens, we have seen it all over. We witnessed a Blue Star Family very quickly become a Gold Star Family with the loss of Sergeant Ram Facade in Ozone Park, and...

(02:58:12)

And I am glad she brought up the White Star Families. So for White Star Families...

(02:58:17)

White Star Families is something Anthony spoke about in his...

(02:58:21)

...story. I cannot speak for a person. But I remember, I lost...

(02:58:25)

...a really close friend of mine from high school, just over...

(02:58:27)

...John Adams High School in Ozone Park, and just over two years ago. Nicest person you can come across, and...

(02:58:43)

I just mentioned his first name, Kyle. And that is something that still sticks with me. But as I said, I do not have anything on paper, but as a veteran myself — Air Force veteran, for anybody that does not know — I served in the U.S. Air Force from 2000 to 2008, so I went in right after 9/11. As Chair Morano mentioned, today is the Air Force's birthday. Today is another important day. I am not sure if you mentioned it, Chair Morano, but today is also National POW/MIA Recognition Day. There are almost 81,000 individuals that never came home, the majority from World War II, so their families never really got closure. The families take on a very, very big burden when people are deployed. But yeah...

(02:59:48)

There are so many different layers here. The Veterans Treatment Courts are mentioned and there are gaps there. In fact, recently under the Lone Veterans Initiative... but I am not going to say what. We get all types of requests, not just for the benefits which we primarily cover, but we get all types of requests from housing. We are doing a fantastic job, so we sort of air traffic control any of those requests over to the housing unit. Homelessness — I have been...

(03:00:29)

I am a little surprised he did not speak today, but Tim Pena — he is, honestly in my opinion, he is a subject...

(03:00:37)

...matter expert. Expired. Oh...

(03:00:43)

Finish your thought, please, Ryan. But...

(03:00:46)

Yeah, there are a lot of different gaps within the system. One of the things, one of the things which we...

(03:00:55)

...will probably have in our report for the Veterans Advisers Report. One of our board members mentioned it — expanding the case management system within the agency obviously requires more funding, more manpower, because it cannot be aim of off the door, in and out. Another thing I will throw out there: as veterans, there are seven of us on a team for the Lone Veterans Initiative. We do not just simply do claims, but we are also there to sit with the veterans as they come into the office. And we, as veterans ourselves, we can kind of sense that they have certain things going on. I will be open about this — almost all are service-connected for mental health. So it is not a one-size-fits-all type of thing.

I will just list off what I have here. This was mentioned recently too, and I do have to mention that there is a perception issue with people that served — that if you have a mental health issue, you are broken. One of the things that I will say, that Anthony's son mentioned, is that veterans are some of the most highly valued individuals. It is a very layered approach once they get to a point where they can get to the end of the bridge. I will be brutally honest — I get like that sometimes. It is like a little roller coaster, you have your ebbs and flows. Veterans definitely are not looking for a handout, but a hand up. A few of the Council members — and I can say which ones, but you know me well enough — that is what we are all about. I will throw out one: Councilwoman Lee. She has extensive experience, prior even to her time on the Council, working with veterans and knowing the mental health side of it.

But like I said, it is the one-size-fits-all type of thing — it is a little difficult. Somebody mentioned it before: one thing that works for one veteran might not work for another. That is why one of the things they are doing — they just rolled it out here in the City — is the WIRE program. I like to call it the morale help-on program. It is like those types of things: it could be salsa classes, it could be cooking classes, it could be Rocky movies. Another thing I will mention: I remembered from Sunday, and Chair Morano, you were over there during that entire time. Another veteran I was speaking to — he was there from the time it started to the time it ended, and you just felt it. Those are one of the things that I think best encompasses that Remembrance Rock, and I am looking forward to seeing the America's Office in the City Council grow year over year because of things like this. It brings together people — you get to speak to different groups of organizations, sharing camaraderie, getting to know one another and what we all do, and sort of building a network where there might be a resource in one place that you might be able to connect with another place.

But yeah, I think like I said it is not a one-size-fits-all type of issue. I will say this is more at the federal level — it just sits with the DVA's national legislative agenda, the TAPS and PAWS Acts, that is going to be for veterans where they have literally been on the side of the aisle with defense.

(03:05:12)

And Ryan, we want you to save some content for the next hearing as well.

(03:05:14)

Oh yeah, yeah. Sorry about that, Chair. But yeah, like I said, everyone here said everything, from Dr. Nelson to Anthony. You know, it is a lot, but I will keep it at that. I apologize. It was nice to see you Sunday at the Remembrance Rock.

(03:05:45)

All right. The following witness was also signed up to testify remotely: Paul Dietrich. If you are online or here in person, raise your hand and let us know. I think he had to go. If there is anyone else currently on Zoom who wishes to speak but has not yet had the opportunity to do so, please use the raise hand function and our staff will unmute you. And if there is anyone else in the room who has not yet had the opportunity to testify but wishes to do so, let us know.

As Chair Morano noted, I will note that Commissioner Mata has stayed the entire time to listen to what everybody had to say, which speaks volumes about her care for veterans. No hands.

I would like to note again that members of the public can submit written testimony. If you are watching this on Channel 79 or your local cable provider and there is something that you would like to add, you can email us at testimony@council.nyc.gov — that is testimony@council.nyc.gov — within 72 hours of this hearing. I know she had a family situation and was not able to be here, but I do want to mention CM Paladino, who at a prior Veterans Committee meeting listed all of the potential areas of collaboration that this Committee could be doing with other committees. This is the first in a series of collaborative hearings that we are looking to do with other great committees and great committee chairs, and I want to recognize CM Paladino for suggesting that publicly.

I am grateful to everyone that attended today's hearing, but I do have to say that for an issue of this magnitude — particularly when there are over 120,000 veterans in this City — this room should have been filled with folks who had something to contribute. I mentioned that it could be just as much of a failure of outreach on my part. I mention that because I know the Council members that I ran — not only the Veterans Committee, but the Mental Health and Substance Abuse Committee — and these are among the most attentive Council members that we have to offer. The fact that the Commissioner has stayed this entire time to listen to what everyone had to add, at a time when I hear the constant refrain that government does not listen — I want to tell the public that you have folks that really want to listen.

If you come to this hearing — and I recognize not everybody can be available to come to lower Manhattan in the middle of the day — but if you come to this hearing and offer solutions and perspective, and we as Council members or they as an agency do not act to solve solvable problems, then shame on us. That should be a blight on our record. I recognize some of this might be cultural, because if there is any group of people that do not like to complain, that do not like to be seen as complaining about anything, it is veterans. They are in many instances the definition of the strong silent type. But whether you are a veteran, a family member of a veteran, a health care provider or anybody that has ideas on how we can solve a very complex problem in this City, I really want to encourage you to be heard.

CM Lee mentioned the previous testimony that she and my predecessor Chair Holden did, and so much of what we covered today is really a sequel to the work that they did. Whenever our two committees meet again, they are going to build on this work. This is not the end of our looking at veterans and mental health. It is not even the beginning of the end — it is really just the very beginning. I really want to encourage folks to please be heard. Next month we are doing a joint hearing with the General Welfare Committee on homelessness and veteran homelessness. I hope that I am here for 18 hours in that hearing because I hope we hear nothing but problems, perspectives and solutions that only people...

(03:10:28)

...that are on the front lines of that issue can deal with. Charlie is the Chair of the Finance Committee and presided over a marathon budget committee hearing, and people lined up for hours to be heard on whatever it is they wanted to comment on with respect to the budget. One Council member said to me privately: the shame is that a lot of these people took time off from work or school, they spent hours commuting here, they spent hours waiting here — when so much of what they are testifying about is going to be decided by lobbyists and how successful those lobbyists are in conversations with those Council members.

(03:11:11)

I will tell you that if there is any committee, any subject area where an individual's voice can be heard and where individual solutions can make a meaningful difference in shaping policy in the City, it is this Committee. I really would urge you, if you are a veteran or know a veteran, encourage them to submit testimony in writing, to come to the next hearing or to participate on Zoom.

The last point that I will make — and I am sorry to go on long — you know, we are considering this resolution on White Star Families and I am a sponsor of it. I certainly think we should do it. Resolutions in and of themselves are meaningless, right? If a resolution is just passed and that is the end of the discussion, we really have not done anything. I say this as somebody that has submitted 50 resolutions of my own for consideration on topics ranging from making Pluto a planet again to Daylight Saving Time. But the importance of a resolution is to get a conversation going and to increase awareness. So I do not think we as a Council should pass a resolution and think we are done. We are not even close to done. It is just the beginning of a conversation on that. So thank you for your indulgence, and to colleagues — thank you.

(03:12:45)

This has been a real treat working with you. I hope it is the first of many collaborations we will have together. Thank you. Absolutely. All right, meeting...